Xanatos

This is why I originally didn't want to legitimise your concerns with a response longer than a couple of sentences. You're not interested in a discussion...and your grasp of English isn't the best.

Oh well. Live and learn.

Do you shout at the Sun when it's too bright? :P

I know well enough by now to not tell you what to do.

That said; be available tomorrow night. <6

I'll keep this brief.

We've already established that we both agree that accepting magic as something in the CoH universe requires further suspension of disbelief from the norm. You don't feel further suspension is significant due to heroes behaving in pseudo-magical ways without the aid of magic. I believe further suspension is significant because heroes behave in pseudo-magical ways without the aid of magic.

So we are both looking at the same thing and coming to opposite conclusions.

Your reasoning is that because so many unbelievable things are taking place, and many of the acts perpetrated by superheroes are largely synonymous with acts perpetrated by magicians, that you wouldn't really have to suspend your disbelief any further. In fact, to you, you've pretty much accepted magic and other things like it (cosmic, etc) as perfectly viable things in this setting. Purely because this setting is so fantastic and unrealistic in the first place, adding magic to it won't really change it all that much.

My reasoning is that because the setting is already so fantastic and unrealistic, that it is therefore delicate when it comes to suspension of disbelief. If we were to add magic to a normal life setting Hary Potter style, then the setting would still be relatively believable because our world, sans magic, wasn't already suspending our disbelief. But when the limits of what is believable are already pushing against the limit, it won't take much to push the setting over the edge from fantastic and unrealistic, into the absolutely ridiculous. The real core of this contention isn't about superheroic acts; we've already established they can be synonymous with magical ones in function. But what about the form? The acceptance of magic means that the laws of nature are no longer absolute. They mean that the metaphysical exists, that souls exist, that gods exist, etc, etc. Accepting magic in this setting is so much more than accepting it as a function of superheroics. It changes the core setting of the game's physical and metaphysical world in a significant way. So to me, such a suspension of disbelief is obviously very significant. And, given that I have looked deeper into this than you; beyond simply the function of magic, but rather at the form of magic; I would say my position is better developed than yours and thus the obvious conclusion.

That all said; my real concern in this thread isn't the presence of magic, but rather the over-presence of magic. It's very easy for me to hand-wave my above concerns if magic is only a minor focus in this game. But if it becomes a core driving focus, then all the genuine concerns I have about magic suddenly become more apparent, and the game's setting becomes all the more ridiculous.

Denied. Though please be assured I'm not trying to wind you up. You legitimately don't know what you're talking about. Go research it before you embarrass yourself further.

While my original thought upon reading this was that you were just being obtuse here because you disagree with me. I'm afraid I would have to agree with you on this point. You don't seem to understand how suspension of disbelief works.

At the risk of merely reflecting what you said to me right back at you:

The main guy is magical. But he's invading the planet with aliens and is using technology. Thus, the general aesthetic of the film isn't really magical.

Would you call The Avengers a magical themed film? No. Of course not.

Would you call Issue 23 a magical themed update? Yes. Of course you would.

Best counter-post in the thread though. And it did get me thinking. You can't really do magic in a superhero game unless it's a tertiary focus. Dedicating entire zones (note the plural) to it does make CoH just feel generic video-gamey.

This is a niche western superhero video game. Embrace that and make money ffs. Koreans aren't going to play this.

Haha. I thought people just generally ignore that bit of lore, so it kinda goes without saying

Lmao I was gonna suggest that...then thought exactly the same as you haha!

Inertial could be a good option though. Just sayin yall...

Ironic.

No. The claim was that superhero videogames are popular. No idea where you plucked this fancy theory from, but it wasn't my post.

If you're a fan of the 800lb gorilla mmorpg then go play it. There's no reason CoH should look to it for inspiration. Absolutely none.

Anyway I gtg now, Zantanna's new movie is playing...

Karnal Sin's Return Part 5: Xanatos

One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light,
but by making the darkness conscious.
- Carl Jung



Present Day
Founders Falls Police Station, Founders Falls
Founders Falls is one of the few neighbourhoods in Paragon City that retained the youthful naivety of the Smithstown years. While other places, such as Kings Row and Skyway City, have fallen into squalor, Founders Falls has always been a place of hope and prosperity. No matter how many demonic creatures stalked the streets at night, the denizens of Founders Falls have always retained their characteristic hopeful optimism. It was, after all, the birthplace of the City of Heroes.

Inside Founders Falls police station sits a hero. A powerful hero. A famous hero. A hero the people of Paragon have accepted as their own so much that he has become part of the City itself. He is no longer his own man. Instead he has become the property of the people he has sworn to protect. His own character and foibles ignored in favour of a caricature of a man. A golden age hero with amusing catchphrases and an outdated costume. A fake unreal person without thoughts, desires, or dreams.

To find that such a person can feel, can have emotion, and can have weakness is to shatter the illusion. The curtain is lifted and the hero becomes just like everyone else. Weak. Uncertain. Confused.

In Paragon City. This is the beginning of the end for a hero.

Founders Falls police station; the hero sits there slumped in his golden age outfit. The white fire from his eyes lighting up the tiny makeshift interrogation room that has been set up especially for him. He sits there, enclosed by four identical two-glass walls. Behind the walls, undoubtedly, sit scores of police officers studying his every move. Opposite from him within the room sits another man. His overweight frame a stark contrast to the hero. What was the man's name? Detective Hammond? The hero cannot remember. He is not as good with names as he once was.

"The mighty Xanatos eh?" Said the detective, as he flicked through his notepad idly, "Never figured you'd be the type to wind up with a broad like Karnal Sin." Began the detective, not hiding his apparent joy at having one of Paragon’s finest sat opposite him.

"I assure you detective, my wife is innocent. You see..." began the hero in response, his tone calm and assuring, despite the detective's aggressive manner.

"Look pal, I heard you the first time," spat the detective, cutting off the hero mid-stream, "You reckon your wife has a split personality or something? Two minds inside her head? Possession? Something like that? I understand where you're coming from big guy, I really do. But that kinda thing happens so often we can't really make exceptions for it anymore. Especially with a reformed ALPHA villain."

The hero leant forward as if to respond, only to allow his shoulders to slump. He glared at the detective. Though the hero was loath to admit it, he had a point. The detective knew this and, realising he'd just cut short the one defence the hero had in his wife’s favour, he began to circle the small room pacing around the hero as he did so. He was careful not to get too close to the hero. But he paced the room idly, waving his hands about and touching the glass at inopportune moments. He was like an artist as he moved, painting an invisible picture with his hands.

"So here's my theory," said the Detective as he lit a cigarette idly. He took a quick puff before continuing, "You see a pretty face with a nasty attitude attached. You get stupid. You think you can save her. You think everyone else is just going to sit around and let you play god. But something goes wrong, so you ask your hero buddies to cover for you…"

"That's not what happened." said the hero, interrupting the detective suddenly, his head snapping to the side as he glared at the rotund man.

"Then what did happen?" said the Detective, taking a step towards the hero, "What happened Xanatos? Why are you sticking up for a murderer?"


"Her mind is gone Xanatos, there is nothing you can do for her now..."

The two heroes stood steadfast, eyes locked on each other for the slightest hint of movement. One of them; Xanatos, founder and chairman of The Defenders of Paragon. The other; Inertial. His protégé. Leader of The Peacekeepers. They were the best of friends, but at this precise moment in time, in the memorial garden of The D, immediately adjacent to the medical wing that housed Xanatos' comatose wife, the two heroes' friendship was reaching breaking point. Xanatos had only recently returned to Earth, claiming his absence was due to a prolonged intergalactic search for a way to cure his wife’s mental condition. And now he wanted to take her with him. Inertial was having none of it. To Inertial, Karnal Sin was still a villain. To Xanatos, she was the love of his life.

"You don't know that!" bellowed Xanatos as he eyed his protégé sternly, "I will not allow anyone to stand in my way son, not even you!"

As he said this, small icicles began to form around his hands, and a cool mist slowly enveloped the room. Inertial followed suite as blue energy began to swirl around his hands, the light from his fists illuminating the statues throughout the memorial garden. Statues of fellow Defenders that had fallen in combat. Statues of brave men, women, and other creatures that had given their lives in the call of duty surrounded the two heroes. Dotted about the grassy knolls of the garden. It was a beautiful serene place. It was not a place for battle.

Sadly, conflict seemed inevitable.

"...what about us?" said a series of voices from behind Xanatos.

Xanatos turned and saw something that made his heart sink. Assembled before him were The Defenders of Paragon. His closest allies, friends, and, in many ways, his family. Libertyman, Psy-Beetle, Frost Sampson, Korpershutz, Night Club, Red Switchblade, Cyborg Robbie, Dynatron, Zacharian, Shadowstar, The Cure, Doc Justice, Frost Phantom, The Mystic, Lorock, Nuclear Warrior, American Ion, Rael, Crimzon, Sal'Vation, Pretty Kitty, Stryder Zero, Atom Slash, Thunderbeast, Yellow Wolf, Chain Lightning, Xar Vir, Crazy Ace, Cloud Runner, Coronae, Kozzma, Heather Wind, Major Marvel, Veikira II, 8 Ball, Forceman, Generic, Red Queen, Superhero Girl, Monstrus, National Star, Knightward, American Eagle, Violet Raccoon, Nightman, Steel Heart, Collision, Toxin. And at the front of the group, a man Xanatos would have called his brother; Exodus.

"Stand down Xanatos, you know how this will end." said Exodus as the assembled heroes began to surround the iceman. Each of them readying their powers as they did so.

Xanatos said nothing in response. Ice merely continued to form around him until he was completely lost from sight by an iceberg fit for an ocean. Inside the ice, the blue hero closed his eyes and uttered a silent prayer. Love can drive men to do terrible things. He only hoped that one day his friends would forgive him. He hoped and prayed they would forgive him for what he was about to do.

"What's he do-?" began Exodus mere moments before the ice block exploded outwards violently, sending shards of ice hurtling towards the group of heroes. Several of them fell in an instant, knocked down by the explosion. The more powerful members simply shrugged off the attack, their faces glaring with hatred at their icy leader.

"If you seek to stop me..." said Xanatos as he caught his breath, his movements uncharacteristically frantic as he tried to keep his eye on every hero simultaneously, "...then by all means do so."

"Defenders, take him down." Barked Exodus, as he fired an energy blast at the frozen hero. The heroes wasted no time charging at Xanatos in an explosion of fire, ice, darkness, energy, and all other manner of superpowers. To his credit, Xanatos managed to fend off the first volley of attacks reasonably well with an ice shield, but the sheer number of attacks proved too much for the golden age hero to handle; for he was quickly knocked down to his knees.

As the frozen fist of freedom fell to his knees, overwhelmed by the physical firepower of his team-mates, the melee heroes had moved in close enough to join in the fight. They swung at their leader, with swords, claws, and in some cases, their bare fists. Some connected, some didn't, some fell victim to a retaliatory ice sword or frozen fist, but as more and more heroes joined the close quarters scuffle, Xanatos began to weaken under the sheer brute force of his allies' attacks. His costume hung from him in tatters, his body was utterly battered, bruised, and bleeding. His eyes nearly swollen shut from the abuse. But still he fought, teeth grit, with all he had. Fighting with such strength and power he had never unleashed before. Fighting for the one person who mattered more to him than anything else in the world: Kathryn Moore.

It was Inertial that landed the final blow on the hero, a swift energy punch to the jaw; knocking the chilly boy scout to the floor. As Xanatos fell, every other hero suddenly stopped fighting. The unconscious form of their leader in front of them proving to be a lucid moment for Paragon's finest. The situation was not one any of them had truly anticipated. Their confusion quickly turned to astonishment, as the unconscious body stirred, began to move, and eventually hauled itself upright. Xanatos was not finished.

"Th-that...all...y-ou....g-got..." said a semi-conscious Xanatos, as he squared off against his team-mates once more. His swollen eyes hiding the pain, both emotional and physical, that hid behind them.

"Oh for the love of...Just STAY DOWN." said Inertial, clearly exasperated as he shot an energy blast the size of a small car at Xanatos. His arms shaking from the force of it. He took no pleasure in assaulting his mentor and friend, he just wanted it all to be over.

The assembled heroes watched with baited breath as the energy beam shot through the air, only to see it stop mere inches from its intended target. The blast was halted not by any icy means, but by a strange green force field that had surrounded Xanatos. Someone had decided to make their presence known..

And that someone was Bayne.

"That's enough heroes. Stand down all of you," said the second-in-command of The Defenders of Paragon as he flew through the air, his right hand emitting a green force field around Xanatos. As Bayne touched down, he nodded firmly to the heroes en masse, before turning to their disgraced leader.

He studied him a moment. A few seconds at most, for Bayne was not one for philosophising. Nevertheless he studied his leader momentarily and contemplated just how far the hero had fallen. It was tragic. It didn't really matter though. They all knew what was coming next.

"Effective immediately I am taking active command of The Defenders of Paragon. You will be removed from our records and are to cease all contact with us hereafter," said Bayne as he walked towards Xanatos, slowly lowering the force field so that his former leader could stand of his own volition, "Now take Karnal Sin and leave here Xanatos."

"Leave here and never return."


As the memories swirled around his ancient head, the hero's hands gripped the metallic table, idly freezing it in the process. The years had not been kind to the hero, he had lost many friends and allies due to his dalliance with a renowned supervillain, but nothing could compare to the rejection of his former supergroup.

"I appreciate the sob story I really do," said the detective as he wiped away an imaginary tear from his face, "But I don't understand how that has anything to do with WHY you're sticking up for this broad?"

"...I made a choice detective. And it is not a choice I can take back," came the predictable response from a man's mind lost to love.

The detective said nothing in response. he simply grinned in an odd manner before briskly walking out of the room, a sudden smug spring in his step. He left the hero alone for several minutes, before returning with just as vigorously. Held, with a slightly sweaty hand, to his chest was a small brown envelope. He gingerly placed it atop the frozen metal table.

"Open it." said the detective.

"What is it?" said the hero.

"Just a little snapshot of what you're wife been doing these days," replied the detective, "Or should I say...WHO she's been doing..."

The folder was in his hands in a flash, torn open with gloved shaking hands, as Xanatos made the mistake of tempting fate. The photos spilled out before him, video stills from surveillance captured at the Ziggurat. The hero felt as if his heart had been pulled from his chest. There before him were photos of his wife, Karnal Sin, very much living up to her name with one of his greatest foes; the evil and otherworldly; Emperor Xanatos.

"Whoah boy would you look at that!" said the detective as he pointed out some of the more explicit pictures, "Nothing seems out of the question to that girl! I like a lady without limits; it's more honest in my opinion. Between you and me... I wish my wife had her imagination…and enthusiasm…"

The hero said nothing in response; he simply held the photos with shaking hands. Apparently the sight of one of Paragon's finest in such a sorry state was enough to calm the detective down. The interrogation had been fun while the hero put up a fight, but now he was all broken and distraught. All the detective felt for the golden ager was pity. It took all the fun out of it.

"Come on big guy, you had to know this would've happened sooner or later," said the Detective, his tone calmer now. He idly ran a hand through his hair. Sympathy was not hs strong suit. As he looked over at the hero, expecting a response but receiving none, the detective decided to end on a high note:

"She's called KARNAL friggin SIN for crying out loud!"

The hero just sat on the small metal chair pathetically, his eyes seemingly burning holes into the photograph he held in a vice like grip before him. Realising further interrogation was a wasted effort, the detective slowly gathered the photos and put them back into the folder. The hero had seen enough. Message delivered. The Detective had other cases to work today, and this boy scout wasn't saying anything. The Detective smirked as he moved towards the door. It seemed like the hero really loved his wife, warts and all.

Collecting his particulars, The detective made a bee-line for the door. He didn't so much as glance back at the hero. He's heard about Xanatos several times over the years. He was supposed to be some big name tough as nails hero. TO the Detective, he just seemed like a love sick puppy.

As he reached for the door handle, the detective felt a sudden chill run up his spine. It terrified him. What's more, it paralyzed him. He suddenly couldn’t move. He was completely stiff, utterly frozen to the spot. Try as he might, the detective could not move. It seemed that the hero was not done with him.

"She did it." said Xanatos, as he rose to his feet, slowly walking towards his frozen antagonist. Placing a large gloved hand on his shoulder, Xanatos released the man from his icy prison.

"My wife killed Star of America."

God damn you Posi.

Lose the attitude. Paying customers will give whatever feedback they want. Who are you to say it's hyperbole? It doesn't matter what the dev team do, what matters is how they're perceived. If you put out half finished content like the newest SSA then people are going to think the devs don't care about the writing in this game. Your job, as a community lead, is to manage expectations. Not tell paying customers to stfu!

As a long time fan of the CoH Franchise (10 years baby!) I can't begin to tell you how frustrating this is to me. This game has so much potential.