Zyphoid
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I want to disagree, but I can't. You are right, Scrappers lost nothing, which is why I continually say they don't really need anything. I want to be as clear as possible, I want them to get something.Originally Posted by UberGuy
This right here is at the heart of why some of us are disagreeing with you. No one has been kicked down the ladder. Uplifting one AT cannot be viewed as lowering another. Viewing it this way is the very essence of what perpetuates power creep.
Scrappers lost nothing. Nothing was changed. That other ATs might be viewed as viable alternatives to playing Scrappers is a good thing. There is a difference in providing players with other ATs they might like to play (which "steals" away players) and having an AT that people stop playing because there is something wrong with it. Your position comes across as if you view the two things as equivalent, and they are not. Nothing is wrong with Scrappers. If more people play Stalkers now, it's because they now view Stalkers as more viable/enjoyable as alternatives to Scrappers than they used to be.
It can be done w/o power creep.
Yup, but what I am suggesting would allow for it w/o having to take wp or regen to get it. I would be happy if they did as you suggested and "put the final bullet" in Conserve and replaced it with superior conditioning.Quote:What you're describing all sounds like Willpower and Body EPP to me.
I don't mind if we disagree, we can agree to disagree. That is not going to change that I would like to see scrappers get some love. I will fight for it every time I get the chance, just as I am sure many of you will fight against it. -
Quote:This part of your post makes it sound like you are happy that scrappers have been kicked down the latter. You may not mean it that way, but that sure is how I read it.Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
Its power creep because you said yourself they don't need a buff. Scrappers have been high-performance for years now. So they no longer have the high perch over brutes and stalkers or incarnate defenders, why do they need to reclaim that edge again?
If you note my suggestion about end, all it does is let scrappers fight more. It reduces their down time. It will be awesome at lower levels, and not as awesome at higher levels. It is a reflection of the kind of conditioning an MMA champion, or a College wrestler, goes through to win. Both of which would be scrappers, because getting pissed off is a fast way to loose your cool, and end up on the mat...in a bad way.
At one point in time End recovery powers (QR) were the soul domain of the scrapper. Now that has been shared with brutes. Maintaining 75% fury is nothing when I never have to stop because I never run out of end. Add to that with accolades, and superior conditioning brutes can end up with a higher end total than scrappers to go along with inherent stam, QR ( some sets), superior conditioning, and physical perfection. I don't see how adding superior conditioning as an extra inherent to scrappers would break anything.
Talk about power creep all you want, but as far as I can tell (I may be mistaken) every AT (even the Kheldian) has seen some form of buff, where the scrapper has not. Perhaps that is an issue of need, but if I am handing out suckers I am not going to skip the pudgy kid just because he doesn't need one. -
Quote:I said that. :/Originally Posted by DMystic
Which again technically wasn't a Scrapper (the AT) nerf.
it was a nerf to a powerset, not an AT. Granted that powerset was only available on the Scrapper AT but you can't call a change to a single powerset a nerf to an entire AT. Unless of course that's the only set available to said AT like with Peacebringers and Warshades. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Ad Astra
So - 2004? 2005? Isn't it time to let that one go?
Nope. -
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
The Tanker stuff is more appealing to me than the Scrapper stuff.
Don't get me wrong. If somehow, someone talks the devs into buffing Scrapper crit rates and (Scrapper and Stalker) resist caps, I will accept it with a smile.
I really think a Scourge mechanic that anyone could notice is too much. And if we couldn't notice it, I think people would complain it should be stronger. I definitely think any such a mechanism on top of the flat crit rate and the DR increase would be very much too much buffing.
Which is again why I like the end buff idea. -
Quote:This is painful, but I kinda agree. They should have had tanks, or something HUGE hitting us outside of the TPN, not a human mob with rocks.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I have NEVER seen a game that had the gall to un-ironically call you a god or even demigod and then have civilians throwing rocks at you for massive damage.
I said I expected exactly something like the Ascended because I didn't think the designers had it in them to not demote/dilute what 'Incarnate' meant.
But they're the ones who promised "cosmic level challenges worth of being of godlike power". Yeah, lemme know when that happens, because I don't consider a Defender getting pelted to death with TPN rocks "godlike" in any way, even if he's got some ghost robot pets and can lob a large fireball/lightning every couple minutes.
Liars.
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Quote:Agreed. I like my idea better (after all it was my idea), but I still agree with this.Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
This doesn't make much sense, especially when scrappers already have end-friendly secondaries in EA, ElA, and WP. It would make much more sense to put the final bullet in Conserve Power and switch the Tanker and Scrapper EPP to Superior Conditioning.
I still feel IO's and Incarnate powers threw that out the window. The fact is the devs will always be able to make the game more challenging. There are an endless amount of mobs for us to fight.Quote:I'll be frank, but sadly not TV's Frank: Power creep.
I took my first every blaster to 50 over the weekend. I was able to soft cap (and then some) him to ranged damage. On a team where almost everyone has maneuvers it is WAY beyond the soft cap. I can hover, attack, and never get hit outside of streak breaker. When that can be done with a blaster, how can anyone argue power creep? When a defender can use incarnate powers to get a pylon time of under a minute and a half how can giving scrappers something be power creep?
This is a fair question, the AT as a whole has never been nerfed that I can remember. However do you remember this "Regen may be too good, it is going to see some small tweaks." At the time only scrappers had regen, my main and namesake was spines/regen made two weeks after live. I guess I am still bitter about that, where the heck was the Cottage Rule when Jack pulled that one?Quote:Now...when we Scrappers nerfed? -
Quote:I agree with some of this. Disagree with other parts of it. Buffing scrapper's end is the least offensive thing that could be done I feel. It would let them fight longer w/o increasing their dps or dpa, it would also be something that is theirs, and theirs alone. Yes Stalkers and Brutes can also get it, but by expending a power pick. What I am suggesting is making it inherent. I personally have always hated that my end didn't increase as I leveled any way, but that is just a reflection of my time playing PnP games.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
But you say it from the standpoint of Scrappers being the "black sheep" of ATs and being wronged and left behind and their NEEDING something. Where I'm coming from is the standpoint that Scrappers are just fine and if nothing were added to them, they'd still be just fine. If something were added to them, it'd be nice to have, I suppose, but at no point would I accept an argument that Scrappers NEED something to be added to them. And if something is added to them at all, it would have to be something fairly minor, nowhere near just adding Superior Conditioning to the AT. A slight hit points buff, a slight self-damage buff modifier increase, a slight critical hit increase or something of that nature.
Scrappers may benefit from "something," but what they don't need is a major performance increase. Scrapper performance is good enough and easily comparable to the other ATs. It may not be the best, but continually buffing ATs so that they're "the best" is a no-win situation. They can't all be the best, so you're endlessly messing with improving and overpowering them. Stalkers needed a buff the because the AT was very, very bad even with Castle's improvements. They didn't get those improvements because they were slightly worse than Scrappers. They got them because the whole AT was bad. Scrappers have never been bad, and they're not bad now, not even by comparison.
And, no, the Incarnate System is not an excuse to throw our hands in the air and let power creep ruin any semblance of balance. There's no reason to justify improving an AT that's very, very solid just because it's not THE most solid in all situations, even though the AT itself still performs better than most others and still has plenty of players playing it.
Stalkers did need a buff, it was a good buff. I do not disagree with that.
I say several times that scrappers do not need anything, but getting something would be nice. I want something more for them, and I am more than willing to admit that that is selfish because it is my favorite AT.
As far as Superior conditioning goes, I think scrappers should have gotten that before it was ever even considered for brutes and stalkers. In comparison conserve sucks imo.
I get why you guys don't want to see complexity added to scrappers, what I can't understand for the life of me is why so many of you don't want them to get any sort of love. Maybe I am misunderstanding, and if I am please explain. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The continual insistence that it IS needed, as you unironically proceeded to perpetuate in your post. Scrappers don't need unique power sets or buffs of gimmicks. That doesn't mean they can't receive a buff of some sort, but I'd rather this WEREN'T a gimmick which took up more attention to play to than what Scrappers do right now.
*snip* (just for space)
Scrappers have no gimmicks to worry about, and I believe very strongly that we need at least one AT that's like this.
You may have not gotten that far, but I say the same thing in a later post. -
Quote:The devs have been clear that MM sets are the hardest to make, which is why there are so few of them. That is why I figured it cost the same as the rest. I love the set, love seeing it in game, and think it is super cool. I am skipping it because I simply suck at playing an MM. I know I would never use it, and it would just sit there. This is the same reason I have not purchased Beam Rifle.Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
I think the price's could do with some looking at.
Beast Mastery can only be used by one AT, but costs the same as a powerset that can be used on four AT.
That doesn't sit right with me, and may be the real reason that I'm skipping Beast Mastery as a purchase.
I can promise this though. I will purchase EVERY melee set that is ever put in the market. -
Quote:Last word!!! HA!Originally Posted by Hopeling
You're totally entitled to your disappointment, I just really dislike the way you construe the AT getting things other than the ones you most want as getting "the shaft".
I may could have worded it better, we all have bad days. I should be fair and say that right after in that beta Synapse posted asking us what we would like to see as part of Proliferation in the future, and the ones I listed (and ice) were repeated by most of the hard core Scrapper players.
I have no desire to see the straight forward nature of the scrapper messed with. I love that same thing about it. -
Also I tend to read very few female writers (they tend to have a bit more grafic sex than I care for), however the Patrica Briggs werewolf novels are great reads.
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At this point I am a bit glad the reward tokens are not up front. Super Packs are addictive. I had 33 reward tokens when i22 went live. I now have none. My sub is for a year at a time, so I am hopeful I will have 3 tokens by the time the next set of vet costumes are released.
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Worst I have seen is 10 prisoner escapes in BAF. I guess I have just been lucky. I hit 50 on my first ever non-melee toon, a baster. So I was really scared that it was going to suck, was pretty happy that it didn't. Sorry you have been having a rough time of it man.
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Quote:Personally I love EA, it is at this point one of my two favorite Scrapper secondaries (the other being ELA). So, I am more than happy we got that. Now, if I were the only one who was annoyed with axe and mace I would have tossed it up to it just being me, but I wasn't. The feedback on the beta boards reflected the same thing I feel now. Why didn't scrappers get at least one of the sets that had been requested for years?Originally Posted by Hopeling
I know I've argued about this with you before, but getting 3 sets proliferated at once that aren't the sets you personally want is not neglect or mistreatment of the AT as a whole. I, personally, was far happier with Mace and EA than I would have been for any of the sets you mentioned. I don't begrudge you your disappointment, but you need to stop trying to construe it this way.
This is what I am getting at, and the point I think people are intentionally missing. Just like everyone else here I want to log onto my scrappers and go, and go, and go, and go.Quote:Would I like to see them get something that improves them? Yes. Would I like to see them get something unique that doesn't add a gimmick that needs to be monitored? Absolutely.
Rather than crit chance increase or leveling, I personally would like to see an end reduction in all scrapper attacks, or superior conditioning added as a consistent inherent so that every x level scrappers get a permanent increase to their end total.
I am not pushing for some crazy thing that needs to be watched and worked towards. I want them to remain simple.
As for power creep, is it even really worth arguing at this point? Once the incarnate system was added using power creep as an argument went right our a very wide open window.
Full disclosure, scrappers are my favorite AT. I love them above all the other children, so yes I want to see them get some real love from the devs. The thing is, it can be done w/o breaking the class, or the balance of the game. I try very hard to be a constructive, respectful, and reasonable member of this community, this however is a subject that I am very passionate about...very. -
Is it so wrong to want something even if it is not needed? Man can not live on bread and water alone.
I went over this on the beta boards, and it was pretty much the same posters involved. Scrappers don't need anything, but getting something would be nice as every other AT has seen some form of buff except the scrapper it seems. Yes Scrapper power sets have been adjusted (take regen for example), those are the same sets they share with the other ATs.
I agree with the op, the lines are too blurry right now. The only reason I choose one melee AT over the other at this point is for concept, or a power set. Well, scrappers don't have any exclusive power sets.
I maintain scrappers are the black sheep of the ATs. They even get the shaft when it comes to power proliferation. How long has EM, SS, Ice, and Nin been requested by Scrapper players? What did we get in the last round? Axe, Mace, and EA.
In the past there were excuses passed around about EM. Things like "Energy Transfer would just be too powerful for crits." Now, I see things like "Rage would have to change if scrappers got SS, it would be way OP." BS.
Meh, I don't know why I bother. It is like talking to a brick wall. :/ Yeah scrappers are fine as is, so that is such a great reason not to give them anything else (sarcasm intended). Everyone loves when the scrapper is nerfed, God forbid some kind of buff.
As annoying as Johnny can be, I see where he is coming from. All around him AT's are getting good buffs, and growing in power, and yet the Tank is just kinda stuck. I agree with him, Tanks need a real buff. Not the crap they got in the last adjustment. With AT's starting on either side the Brute does overshadow the Tank. -
Quote:I have seen more and better powers released since freedom than I did all the time before. I as a V.I.P. am all about buying them if it will continue this trend.Originally Posted by Diggaroo
Just out of curiosity, how do you, as an individual, feel about buying new powersets even though you're a VIP member? I'm not taking sides here, nor will I support either one. I'm simply curious as to how the general community feels about this. Is it justified?
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Ann Rice has a new book out about Werewolves called "The Wolf Gift" I swear it reads more like a superhero novel than what she has written in the past.
The E.E. Knight books are great books, but they are not what I would call light reading.
Exheroes is a great book about Superheroes post zombie apocalypse.
Really though if you want a super fun read that is hard to put down I suggest the Monster Hunter International books. I have read each of the three books 3-4 times each.
http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Hunter...2372042&sr=8-1
My 15 yo who had only ever tackled young reader books even fell in love with them and read all three. I just can't rave enough about these books. -
Quote:This did suck in a huge way. I see boot leg copies on the web and at cons now and again, but an official version is all I would have grabbed.Originally Posted by Lycantropus
I'm still ticked that "Werewolf: The TV series" was so close to being produced on DvD, but disputes over the song rights (or the price they were wanting for their use) from a couple of songs made the venture flop. They'd even released the awesome box art for it too as a teaser.
Werewolf TV shows just have a hard time getting off the ground. There was Wolf Lake, and the Gates that both has Werewolves and both of those flopped.
Shoot, even The Wolfman didn't do as well as I would have liked. I thought the movie was great. -
Quote:Movie scared me so bad as a child that just seeing photos from the movie causes me to loose sleep for days.Originally Posted by DocPhotonic
The Exorcist (1973) -- the classic creepy movie.
"Bless The Child" was good with a lack of gore
"American Haunting" also lack of gore.
Too bad on the gore thing. Tucker and Dale VS Evil is on Netflix right now, and it is the best horror comedy I have ever seen.
"Candyman" That was a creepy movie.
I am a huge Werewolf buff also. Here is one I have not seen mentioned.
"Bad Moon" was based on the book Thor, which is told from a dog's pov. Great book, pretty good movie. -
Quote:For some reason I had thought that did happen with the fury changes. Was it proposed and changed?Originally Posted by BrandX
Actually, I was always for dropping Brutes max resist to 85% and having it so Tankers had the higher resist potential at 90%.
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Quote:Same here.Originally Posted by Leo_G
I've embraced my Stalkers fully as Scrappers, because that's what they are now.
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Quote:The first time I didn't intend to, but can see how it would be taken as such.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Your "attempt to agree" with me included a backhanded insult.
...and right after you try to be even more inflammatory.
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The second time it was intentional. -
Quote:This is an honest question, but didn't the brute resistance cap get lowered when the fury changes were made?Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
All of my Tankers hit the damage cap with ONE Kin on the team. Without any IOs for +dam. All of my SS Tankers and my Shield can do it on their own. And at the cap they'll still do less damage than my Brute, who doesn't faceplant and still has plenty of room to improve offensively and defensively.
What do I care about +Dam when it doesn't do jack until they bring Tanker caps in line with Brute caps. They get the same regen, resistance and defense potential as Tankers, and only 10% less max HP potential. Tankers get a heck of a lot less then -10% Brute damage potential.
And yes, I have been fighting the the caps to be reevaluated.
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Quote:I attempt to agree with you, and you go on the attack.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I don't. Why should I buff the damage of any Brutes and Scrappers around me even more? I already take all the heat off them and they already take more than they give back.
You know what? Nerf Scrapper damage 20% and give them a 25% -res debuff on all attacks. There. They effectively do 5% more damage, and actually contribute to the team now.
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See, unlike some I do like having a tank on the team over a brute, because most tanks actually take taunt. They actually attempt to hold agro rather than just minding the fury bar. I am convince that there is NOTHING the devs could do to tanks that would make you happy, because you don't want to be happy. Until tanks are like Superman and can take more damage than anyone else (which they already can) AND do more damage than anyone else, you are not going to like it. As much as you complain why have you not found a new game to play yet?