X_treme

PvP this wednesday on test yea? Really wanna test out builds on a couple of toons

imo the difference between a good team and a great team is that the members in a great team function very well together but do not rely on other team mates to function i.e. if u take the buffer out they can still function very well, if ur reliant on a team mate the team can fall apart

[ QUOTE ]
hello everyhbody, 3 LNM can't log on test.
LNm stay on live this night, sorry.
Good Game

[/ QUOTE ]

test went down for 1 minute

[ QUOTE ]
I just think its funny that some people who once thought that this would never work are now arguing that its unfair.

I also think its not great pvp - but it clearly works....or rather, it CAN clearly work.

[/ QUOTE ]

what u suggested was using a whole team of defenders/controllers with some form of foe phase shift which is completely different

[ QUOTE ]
How can you have an issue with this?

It's no more wrong than a tank keeping someone perma-taunted or a rad keeping a blaster debuffed. It's making use of the powers as they were meant to be used. If you consider that cheating/poor sportsmanship then you may be playing the wrong game...

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL ur joking right? the dev's imo have no idea how the powers work or how people wud use them, if all powers are being used as they were meant to be there wud have been no changes to them

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There wont be any defiant pentad team next monday. All our blasters are on strike due to nerfs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bawk bawk bawk...

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL summed up perfectly i agree with Lady White in that why wud u target a tank in pentad unless u were perma taunted which doesnt happen anymore, if a blaster comes after my tank i kill him

sry for not being at last event, i was on holiday

[ QUOTE ]
It was really good to be able to give Kuroshi's PvP build a thorough testing - and I was more than a little pleased with the results. It was nice to be able to use Elude for the hell of it, and not just for survival.

If nothing else, I hope I demonstrated that there's a place in PvP for "gimp" builds.

[/ QUOTE ]

indeed i was amazed to see the amount of dmg ur little claws were producing

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thaw adds slow protection! Do you have any ideas how awesome that is?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, not awesome enough to make up for the loss of fear and confuse res, and perception.

I'd love to know how good the slow res is. I know when doing some Tsoo missions it seemed pretty much useless at helping Syn's brute, who'd had his speed siphoned. Thankfully, we had a kin to SB him, which did help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then your saying sonic is the only way to go?

Or you could have a */Dark brute, */Nin stalker and */Dark MM to combat many of these points and thermal for forge on players and pets .

Think one problem with villains is that apart from stalkers they have little in the way of burst damage. Most hero kills are done by blasters and scrappers.

For villains is it Stalkers and MMs? If I remember rightly Brute base damage is less then tanks so they need buffs like forge to really get to work until they get up some fury. Corrupters and Doms cannot even begin to compare to Blasters and Scrappers for burst damage.

Dont just win through huge damage figures, but it does help alot IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

brutes can do a lot of damage with the right build, i'd say stalkers and brutes are the main dmg dealers with MMs, doms and corruptors baccking them up on attacks where possible

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
True, if you want slow protects, get a kin :P

[/ QUOTE ]

That isnt exactly true. Thaw enables you to run through quicksand like it isnt there. We have found thaws slow protection to be quite good.

We havnt fought that many CoT's, so our PvE testing is quite limited. Our main tankers for against the Baracuda AV (yes, we [censored] the sucker for SO's) have always been our stalkers, and they say the difference between thaw and no thaw is very big. They even say thaw is probably just as good as SB, maybe better.

[/ QUOTE ]

was that 1 quicksand or 2? because super speed goes through 1 quicksand very fast, only stacked quicksand stops ss.

the trouble with thaw is that its duration is the same as ID and unlike kin they have more than 2 buffs to give out, thermals are expected to give out 2shields and thaw to every1, give out forge as much as possible, attempt to keep people alive with a less than amazing heal, while debuffing the enemy and assisting in attacks

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bit OT, but I think one of either Thaw or Forge needs buffing until someone can convince me otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I keep tossing around the idea of making a post on suggestions about it, but haven't bothered since I doubt it would get listened to. Aside from the lack of confuse and fear res, Thaw also doesn't grant +Perception. That seems to me like a little too much of a hit for slow res and a tiny bit of cold res. It also leaves villains without any targetted +Perception powers until 35, and being realistic... how many Sonics are there around?

[/ QUOTE ]

it also only lasts 60secs as aposed to CM's 90secs duration

edit: altho i dont think we shud be discussing this as the only outcome of this conversation i can see happening would be a nerf to CM rather than a boost to Thaw

[ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing a */Thermal is probably the most useful in a pentad for the shields, heals, buffs and debuffs?

[/ QUOTE ]

personally i think its very close between /thermal and /sonic with thermal just slightly ahead, of course in such a crucial role the player must be very good to maximise these sets with buffing, debuffing and staying alive

edit: a good player with /kin cud also support the team very well

[ QUOTE ]
I think our chats on the Leader channel tonight definitely showed a lot of holes in our general PvP min/max knowledge.

One thing that did come up was the RES vs DEF question and also the value of -ACC powers.

For arena team PvP, where should our buffs/debuffs be concentrated? -DEF -ACC +DEF +RES, balanced.

Overall opinion seemd to be go with RES heavy sets such as SR and concentrate on +DEF and +DMG buffs for our team. Chances are this is wrong though so any feedback appreciated.

(Please just leave the flaming. We've seen enough of it lately and I think people have all said their piece in other posts. No need to carry it on)

[/ QUOTE ]

wud depend entirely on the other builds in the team, if a good empath and good kin is present in the hero team i'd have RES all the way, if one is missing i'd proably go DEF

for villains if a good thermal is present i'd have RES, if no thermal i'd go DEF

[ QUOTE ]
I find the key to arena fights with villains lies in corrs. 5 corrs is prolly the best combination, you can have for villains. This is very unlike heroes, who can do very well in pentads.

Let villains freely choose AT's instead of restricting them to pentads. You will prolly see very even fights.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think 5 experienced PvP'rs using villains cud do very well, with practise, in a villain team, every AT can produce a fair amount of dmg and with coordination wud be deadly

[ QUOTE ]
For me, stalkers and Corruptors are the key to PvP for villains and MM's are, at present, a liability in PvP zones and arena.

In a simple 5 on 5, I think a villain team can do well against heroes with a bit more practice, just not in pentad.

As for Blasters Vs Corruptors. I've noticed this as well. I know blasters do have a higher damage output than corruptors but it seems to be a LOT higher than it should be with blasters able to tear through Corruptors in seconds.

My main theory on that is that Defiance may be a little overpowered in PvP, compared to PvE where it is little use whatsoever. The end of '1 shot kills' could make the ability to 'play' with Defiance a lot easier as well. Also, Blaster secondaries are vastly different to Corruptor ones in that they can make Blappers while Corruptors can't. Toggle dropping blasters are one of the biggest threats in PvP for me as travel toggle drop = faceplant.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont think blasters shud be compared to corruptors, i see corruptors as the villain version of defenders

[ QUOTE ]
I would genuinely be very interested to see how your villain team holds up against Shaman X or AoW for example. Make sure to advertise when this happens, cause I'd love to see you guys fight and be shown how it should be done.

PS I just re-read this and realise it looks horribly sarcastic, so I just want to add: It's not :P

[/ QUOTE ]

we'll most likely fight AoW as they're always up for a fight i don't expect miracles but i think it will be a good fight, i will post on here when i have arranged it, it will be in a couple of weeks at least tho

in terms of shields i'd go energy hands down

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of the 18 extra enhancements that I have, 12 of them are slotted on powers chosen at 40+. I think this would probably be similar across most people and so I don't see this as being too much of an issue.

Imo, its all down to the very limited arena PvP that villains have experienced so far, and their knowledge of both hero and villain powersets.

For example, all of the stalkers we faced running into a full team of heroes solo and expecting not to be seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only that, there is a post somewhere on here about how SO's become less effective as you exemp down through the levels and Bridger has confirmed that this is true. While exemping down will leave you stronger than a non exemped alt of the same level, it IS scaled down so the effectiveness of those extra slots is weakened.

Coupled up with the fact most of those extra slots are spent on powers that you don't have available when exemped, I've always felt the difference those 10 levels make is not as big as some people might like to think.

If anything, Gutts team showed that the team work on the heroes side is the main factor. They had similar teamwork and caused a few surprises. When I looked on in one of their battles, they were fighting VERY differently to the other villain teams I watched.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, knowing a lot of people disagree with me. Villains fight villains and because there are clearly groups that are good, consider themselves to be good PvP'ers. On the occasions they fight heroes and are beaten, usually quite heavily, they say it's balance and slots that are the problem.

It's Not.

Yes, they are a factor and in close run battles will make a difference. But, most of the battles, including those on Sunday, saw the villains not getting beaten but completely slaughtered.

Until villains are willing to have several months worth of getting pwned by the best hero PvP groups on a REGULAR basis, things will never change.

We HAVE to face heroes in pentad and arena competition whenever possible, not just to see what works against them but also to see how they work. I'm in the process of holding a few Tuesday night arena battles against other villains so I can get some PvP experience. Once I've got to the point where I know what my role is, I will not be waiting until my PvP team is one of the best villain ones before fighting heroes. As soon as we can function on a basic level as a team, we will be fighting hero teams straight away.

I know we will probably be suffering a lot of defeats for a long time, but I think we're going to learn more from that than anywhere else. With the feedback we'll be getting from those teams, they'll be able to let us know what works and what doesn't and we'll have people observing as well to give feedback.

[/ QUOTE ]

someone buy this man a beer well said mate

i no a few of us will be putting a villain team together for the next tournament to really find out if there is a balance issue which i personally believe there isnt, a villain team is different to a hero team and needs to be played differently, its as simple as that imo

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lurve that map as long as there ain't a Mind Controller in there.

[/ QUOTE ]

try fighting a team with a bubbler who sit in the room up top tp'in ppl in when u have no invul or kin on ur team

if u still love it then, i'll make u a certificate

[/ QUOTE ]

If PvP is turning into poor tatics like this im going to stop PvPing. I have always enjoyed PvP untill people start taking it too far and doing "anything" to win. I wont be part of it. I hope this is last time we see things like this. I personaly like thay map also. I dont want to see it as a "Void Map".
If people have to resort to less then fair tatics then wheres the fun in that you should prove your better than the other teams through out playing a team and developing cunning tatics not poor unfair tatics.
I would just ask that each team thinks about the tatics it uses before using them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the tactic was completely legitimate, to be honest. The power is only doing what the devs intended it to do, it's not like they used an exploit to make it more powerful or anything like that. I'm afraid this is just the nature of pentad, some teams do have unbeatable tactics since you often can't fit a kinetics on a pentad team. Granted, it might not be fun for you but if they're not exploiting then there's no problem.

Besides, I thought this was supposed to be the top-level PvPers getting together to improve ourselves? Surely it's better that the teams do "anything to win" to raise the overall standard of play even higher? I certainly would've stopped coming if all we'd done was walk over everyone on the first night. The reason I enjoy it so much was because we did lose to the french guys by some insane amount in the first few matches we fought. Throw any tactic you want at me, all it means is that I spend the next week thinking of a counter for it and then coming back stronger. Surely that's the point of this whole thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL how on earth is that tactic gonna improve anybodies PvP skill? if u can come up with a counter for that with the team we had then i applaud u and will bow down to u.

The point is this is not a tournament or a league and was never set out to be, it has always been a fun get together to fight people who aren't on the same server, this certainly was not fun for us and i fail to see how it cud be remotely fun for them? it was not using any form of skill so neither team cud take anything away from it, the stupid thing is with a bubbler in the office u have a huge advantage and will win 9times out of 10 fighting so there really is no need to be a [censored] and sit up top tp'in ppl in

[ QUOTE ]
Ok this is an inconsistent post, I admit it so first let me say my thanks to all who organised. I've organised a few events and it's usually a thankless task you are putting yourself up to have things thrown at you.

Yes the Heroes are better and it was very annoying to hear them crow about their "victories". Norton was in my team and we did indeed suffer from the player under the cap problem. One of the problems the villains have is their build up powers Corrs aren't to bad pick on the guys with low health and scourge kicks in but brutes and particularly doms with their slow build ups suffer..these are excellent differences in the games as they give the types character, but in PvP it tells. The hero team who were playing us clearly had PvP builds..their tactics weren't actually all that.Getting spotted all the time when using invis was strange but I don't PvP very seriously so i'm sure it's a very clever tactic in a very limited hardly tactical at all environment.I really don't see the point of building a char to some preordained "that's good for pvp" recipe I actually like to have characters. (btw as a comic themed game the villains ought to be far more powerful than the heroes, hasn't one of these people read an actual comic?)

The SG rumble the villains had a while back was a lot of fun..hectic chaotic lots of events to relate back to SG members who weren't there etc. And we didn't win that it was just fun to be there. Getting continually KO'd when you don't stand a chance with opponents then thinking their godlike when that is clearly far from the case is frankly galling. I've also had a lot of fun raiding but this game isn't a counterstrike and it's not going to give superb tactical pvp in the arena. If you have a premiership counterstrike clan then hats off to you you have a true team and tactical skills. The same cannot be said for a CoH pentad team. If the heroes can base raid the villains then that's my mind made up about real base raids..forget it!

I think whats needed for these events is a few more people helping with the organisational effort..and (please don't take this the wrong way)..a little bit more preparation and thought beforehand. Well done guys all such efforts should be applauded, don't give up. Happy to help with other events give me a shout on leaders.

[/ QUOTE ]

i never saw any hero "crow" about "victories" (please define victories if not winning) and i dont no any hero who believes themself to be "godlike" i assure u the heros teams have an immense amount of skill and when you've picked ur toys up and got back u in ur pram i'll face u with a pentad team full of pve toons and we'll see who wins

the heros have done nothing apart from salute the villains and offer advise and traingin *sigh* u just cant help some people...

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen a post from Castle or Positron in the US boards sayin that they'll activate Gauntlet in PvP for tankers(because many complained that it's the only AT that doesn't have any use for his inherent),can't remember where I've seen it and when they'll put this change in-game.

[/ QUOTE ]

i saw that too, iirc they said by i7 at the latest, i believe this to be the reason for the recent nerf to taunt in PvP

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks to the organisers and everyone that took part, it must be difficult getting tells spammed at you every 2 mins and trying to organise things on the fly. (especially as the chat boxes make scrolling up very difficult in busy areas).
I advise any villains that felt hard done by to talk to Gutts and his team, they put up an excellent fight against the heroes and proved to us all that the Villain/hero divide isnt as huge as first thought. (tho i felt like Mike Tysons Punch bag )
**I heard that enclosed maps with no fly space worked in the villains favour, any feedback?**

And to people moaning about the waiting times, I am very much looking forward to the well oiled event that you will be organising in the near future - perhaps you can stop hiding behind your keyboards and show the rest of us how its ment to be done??

On a side note, Im not sure that pentads are the way forward for judging balance issues, as other posters have said VG's will win every now and again, but it seems that Heroes can dish out and take more Damage per AT when you compare each 1 on 1.

I had loads of fun, and tho we didnt do the Hordes Rep much good, we did learn a lot about choosing builds for PvP and look forward to many more events like this

[/ QUOTE ]

well said mate apart from the part i've put in italics, pentad is the most balanced form of PvP u can ever have, the ATs dont measure up 1v1 which is why its a team match, the main problem was the heros played together and the villains played as 5solo players, if the villains co-ordinate every AT can do very good dmg as compared to 3 dmg ATs from the heros, a hero wudnt stand along against a collective strike from 5 villains

[ QUOTE ]
I lurve that map as long as there ain't a Mind Controller in there.

[/ QUOTE ]

try fighting a team with a bubbler who sit in the room up top tp'in ppl in when u have no invul or kin on ur team

if u still love it then, i'll make u a certificate

[ QUOTE ]
Great!! We would love to join you, and would like to see many other groups getting involved, I got a little fed up with people using excuses like "Heroes have more slots" and "Heroes have accolades". It was simply teamwork that undid most of the Villian Teams, although I do believe that pentads do offer a slight advantage to heroes due to there being more "Squishy" classes in Villains imo.
We need to bring villains out of the PvE mind set and learn how use all of our Powers, not just the ones that work when spammed against longbow.

[/ QUOTE ]

nice one mate we're always willing to fight anyone and give feedback/help etc on the fight or just give tips and any help thats needed

[ QUOTE ]
*Dreams of soloing Chives*

I have defeated /regens, barely. Spines. Cry. Pain. Vision.. going black..

[/ QUOTE ]

just make a fire/kin troller mate

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So if any villans want to train, then feel free to contact me @zak or join us from 8:30 on wens nights and we will all be happy to help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey zak where do you train i would be interested in dragging along The Horde to train.

Globel:Ronin

The Hordenly the strong survive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Peregine Island arena on test server, come along and join in the fun usually get a few french guys turning up these days too