Amygdala

Here is the thread that the run was posted in. (This wasn't the first or only time we've taken down the Storm AV without nukes/Shivans/HVAS, it's just the only run I've managed to get a screen shot of just before he was defeated). We used the same strategy posted in my guide while using the team template I have outlined in it. As for support toons, sets (from what I recall) were quite diverse, including Emp, Cold, Rad, Dark, Thermal, Storm, Force Field, etc. So definitely not heavy on "Dark/Rad/Kin" specifically. I think we had one Dark and one Kin in the entire group, from that specific trio of sets.

The teams were made of SG/coalition mates, and random people from one of Champion's main global chat channels (I'd say about half and half). It is impossible for me to quantify how heavily IO'd people were, or verify all the builds for set bonuses. Some people I'd never teamed with before. Several informed me upon joining that they had not done the CoP before.

Sorry you have missed out on successful CoP runs. I have read of successful runs on Justice and Victory, so it is my impression that they have been happening. The times may not be convenient for you due to the time zone difference, but it is understandable that content requiring multiple teams of people would be forming up at peak hours.

We have been running them on Champion, mostly impromptu and PuG for a while, and have been successful at both AVs without the use of nukes. So if the first one you attended did not work out, don't let it sour you on the entire trial. Things get better as more people gain experience with it.

Congrats.

I've found that balanced teams and coordination go pretty far.

Lots of different ATs/power sets can be useful on this trial. So it's less a question about which ones are appropriate and more a question of how the teams are assembled (i.e. are they balanced). Generally, you want a good strong mix of buffs, debuffs and damage.

If you check out the guide in my sig, there is a section where I've tried to break down teams further to show what a happy balance is and how team balance relates to parts of the strategy.

Regarding the use of Ventrilo, it is not necessary, but helpful. I have had several people join CoPs I've lead that couldn't use Vent, and I simply typed things out for them. I generally advise people to at least listen in on Vent if possible, because once the trial is explained, coordinating people after that is as simple as "Buff up"......"Ok, attack"......

This is why I enjoy the CoP.

The 'broken' most refer to is the fact that the AV, despite having his shield up and being 'unaffected', can still attack you through it. So you'll have to deal with AV aggro in addition to aggro from the Willforge spawns when inside the cathedral.

Despite this issue, it is still possible to complete the CoP as it is.

Hey, thanks for reading the guide.

I just added those times in after a run I did tonight. I was trying to determine if the time you have to attack the AV was X (fixed respawn timer) - Y (variable time taken to clear Rularuu) = variable window of time, or a fixed amount of time. I had read different reports about this and decided to test it.

A friend timed the total amount of time from respawn to respawn while I timed the AV assault phase. The total time was variable, but the AV assault phase was consistent. (This is in line with TsumijuZero's observations earlier in the thread, which described 45s 'shield down' time).

I have tried measuring times with the obelisk and found similar results, only for the obelisk your attack window appears to be 30s.

The H4xicane (or HurRAWRicane depending on your preference ) is pretty nasty indeed. I took that screen shot on my Emp when I decided to jump in close with my Combat Attributes up. It went away quickly the moment I jumped back out. All the more reason to stay at range if you can be at range, and take that opportunity to cast your buffs on everyone.

As for the guide, I will continue to update it as I come across/test for more information.

Let me zoom in a little closer for you...



Remember now?

Here is what I've been able to time (so far):

Cubes + obelisks:

- If you start attacking, but don't clear all the Rularuu (don't drop shield), you get a respawn in 1:30

- If you do drop the shield on the obelisk, but do not defeat it, you will get a respawn 30s after the shield drops. This appears to be a fixed amount of time, because one round of clear Rularuu + drop shield + wait for respawn took around 2 minutes. If the shield coming up were dependent on the original respawn timer (i.e., 1:30 - X amount of time clearing spawn) it couldn't have possibly taken that long. In addition to timing a full cycle, several measurements were made between shield dropping and respawn, all clocking in at 30s.

Inside the Cathedral:

- I tried to measure the length of time from when his shield drops to when it goes up again to see if it were constant or variable, since outside seems to be a constant 30s. I also got 45s a few times, but was unable to give it my best effort trying to lead the CoP/use Vent/play. So I will throw out a tentative 45s window. This could be because we clear the spawns each cycle at very comparable rates, leaving a similar window each time, or it's fixed, like it appears to be outside.

Going to try to take more measurements when I'm not the one leading the CoP. I'll probably organize a 'testing run' for this purpose.

Question for Sandolphan:

When you got 1:30 for the respawn, was that measured from the initial assault to his shield being restored (i.e., respawn, attack AV, shield up), or how long it takes to get a respawn if you do not clear the Rularuu completely?

This.

Thanks.

As for timing, I've heard a few numbers thrown out there, so I'm going to try to time it tonight. Stop watch is a go!

I tried to watch for the flashing lights on the cube as well recently while a friend and I were running some experiments with the obelisks, but it doesn't look like they flash. At least for the cubes near the obelisks, the lights do turn off once the shield is down, and light up as the respawn occurs, but no flashing. Keen eye to notice the change in lighting, though.

I also decided to time the respawns with a stop watch using the cubes and obelisks. After dropping the shield, if you don't drop the obelisk itself, you have 30 seconds on the dot before the cube respawns Rularuu and the shield goes up. I timed it about 5 times or so and it was consistently 30s. I would imagine that inside the cathedral would work in a similar fashion, which would mean you would have a 30s window to attack the AV.

However, I'm not completely sold on this yet, because I'm sure everyone can relate to the experience of having some attack phases seem really short, and others a lot longer. Also, the AV's shield is dependent on the spawns of 3 cubes being cleared, while the obelisk is just dependent on one. So the model could be slightly different, and could be what is responsible for variable length attack phases.

Regardless, that is something I'd like to look into and time properly to collect some data, since perception of time can be skewed given everything else going on at the time. If it is a fixed window if time, a count down, like Sandolphan is suggesting, would be useful.

Although casting PBAoE buffs while at range and fighting the AV is beneficial, I wanted that section to focus more on which buffs are available, period. So I've edited it because the wording was misleading. Thanks for the catch.

I've posted a guide to the CoP without using nukes, Shivans or HVAS in the Player Guides section. I hope the information is useful.

Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial

Table of Contents

1. Introduction
My impression of the Cathedral of Pain Trial.

2. About the Trial
General trial information, rewards, badges, etc.

3. Base Requirements
What you'll need in your base to get started, including Energy/Control costs and crafting information.

4. Team Composition
A review of the enemies you'll be up against and how different ATs can contribute. Includes an analysis of useful buffs/debuffs.

5. Trial Part 1: Obelisks
How to best co-ordinate your teams for a quick and easy first phase of the trial.

6. Trial Part 2: Inside the Cathedral
General strategy and tips when inside the cathedral, plus notes on each of the 2 possible AVs:

a. Ruladak the Strong
b. Lanaru the Mad

7. Screenshots and Videos
Includes a video of a 10 minute run with Ruladak.

8. Closing Remarks
TLDR version of the guide. Final thoughts.



1. Introduction

Your highschool teacher decides to give you and your 23 classmates the day off to go to an amusement park. You arrive and are arguing which ride to go on. Finally, you all decide to go on Drop Zone. There's a long line up, and much anticipation and fear of the thought of nearly dropping to your doom. You finally get on, survive, and think "With a line up that long, there's got to be more to it than that." You secretly hope that giant, evil space monkeys will come down from the sky, flinging their excrement at an unsuspecting crowd. Now THAT would be exciting. But no such monkeys appear, and you are left longing for another ride. At that moment, the girl you are dating pulls you aside and points to the "Tunnel of Love". It's cheesy, but you're obviously not going to say no. You hop into a giant swan with your lady friend and off you go. About mid way through the tunnel, she says "So I've been meaning to talk to you about something." You know where this is going. Panic ensues. Where the [censored] are those monkeys when you need them. At the end of the ride, you are single. Your now ex girlfriend gets out of the giant swan and goes over to the guy operating the ride and gives him a kiss. The irony is not lost on you. She turns to you and says "I thought this would bring closure to our relationship." As you storm off into the crowd, you shout over your shoulder "Stop looking at me, swan!" You are miserable and full of so much self-loathing, you decide to ride the Teacups by yourself as "You Spin Me Round" by Dead or Alive booms in the background.

The Cathedral of Pain Trial is fun, but challenging. One could say it's more like a raid because unlike other trials, you can have up to 24 people (or 3 full teams) join at a time. It can either be the source of enjoyment, or extreme frustration, for many people depending on how it goes. For example, when a CoP is successful, it can take as little time as 10 minutes, leaving you thinking "That's it?" It's pretty much like riding Drop Zone. If it is unsuccessful, it can take the full hour and leave you wondering if it is even possible to beat. You are frustrated and just want to go ride some Teacups.

Thus, I am writing a guide with the hopes that, should you read it, you will not find yourself in the latter position. I am also writing the guide with the assumption that nukes, Shivans, HVAS will not be used. As of recent patch notes nukes have been disabled during CoP runs. It is for this reason that I've written a guide based on success I've witnessed without the use of nukes. The patch makes no mention of disabling Shivans or HVAS, but these things were also not used on successful runs vs either Lanaru or Ruladak.

The following guide is based on my experiences thus far with the CoP and what I've seen lead to successful runs. I will not, however, be giving advice on what to do after your woman leaves you for a carnie. If you are in that position, I do not have a guide for you, but I will give you my sympathy.

2. About the Trial

The Cathedral of Pain trial can be hosted on either blueside (for heroes and vigilantes) or redside (for rogues and villains). It is accessible via your SG or VG base and can be started by clicking on the Mission Computer/Oracle. (For more information on how to set that up, see 3. Base Requirements). You may have up to 24 people participate, but they do not all have to be from your SG or VG. The only people that must be in the SG/VG are the team leaders (so 3 SG members minimum).

If you are hosting a trial and inviting people other than your SG mates, Pocket D is a popular start up location given the close access to a SG base portal relative to the rezzers. Should people not in your SG die and have to enter again, this will make it easier on them. Otherwise, SG mates can go to the hospital in the base. In Pocket D, there are also inspiration vendors nearby should you wish to purchase any. You may also want to recommend that people grab Jet Packs for easy travel, since the first part of the trial takes place on a Shadow Shard map.

Characters level 35 to 50 are able to join this trial, but I would recommend bringing level 50 characters to give yourself the best chance of success. The trial is on a 60 minute timer, so it cannot take longer than an hour of your time (this does not include prep time).

If you are successful, you will receive:


3. Base Requirements

To start the CoP, you will need:

4. Team Composition

This is perhaps the beefiest section of the guide. This is not because you need X of Y AT. If that were the case, I'd list off the ATs and be done with the guide. Instead, teams are the strongest when you have a mix of buffs, debuffs, damage and aggro control. You will be up against some pretty difficult mobs and you will also need to build teams that are balanced enough that they can defeat mobs at similar rates. For this reason, I've expanded upon what support sets have to offer, because many offer a unique variety of buffs or debuffs. For example, many people associate Rads with debuffing Regen. However, -Regen is available from Dark Miasma, Cold Domination, Thermal Radiation, etc. Buffs come in many different forms as well and can help your teams immensely. If anything, I hope to show through a break down of powers that help is available from many power sets, and that success with this trial does not rest on the shoulders of a select few ATs.

No one wants to be the guy who brought a knife to a gun fight. So before deciding what your going to want on your CoP, it's important to know what you're up against. Here is a list of what to expect:

With the above information in mind, here is a brief overview of how various ATs can help you succeed:

Melee
Melee (specifically Tanks, Scrappers and Brutes) can be highly useful during a CoP because they contribute damage, control aggro and limit spawn movement. A successful trial, for the most part, depends on how fast you can take down spawns of Rularuu. Rularuu generally have high resistance to status effects (holds, immobilizes, etc.) and are therefore difficult to pin down in one location. They also fly around a lot, and therefore, a significant amount of time can be spent chasing after them. In my experience, the easiest way to keep the Rularuu spawns localized are melee toons jumping in and drawing aggro. This will be explained in greater detail later on.

Ranged Damage
When building your team, I'd recommend a mix of melee and ranged damage. Since you don't know which of the 2 AVs you will get, having a strong core of ranged damage in the mix means damage dealers can stay out of range of Hurricane and blast away.

Healing
No, I'm not saying you need a h34l0r. I can already sense the Defender forums stirring over this. However, you will be up against level 52 Rularuu spawns which can be difficult for a lot of toons. Having some heals available to patch up the damage that gets through your buffs is highly useful. Many toons with heals have a variety of other buffs and/or debuffs, so this is not to say they should not be making full use of their set!

Buffs
I've broken down buffs under the following categories: Shield Buffs, Toggle PBAoE, PBAoE. I feel this is more relevant than listing the name of each power because in my opinion, understanding how to use them is more important what they're called.

Shield Buffs: Active Anywhere
Buffers that have single target shields that they can keep up on all team mates at a time are Force Fielders, Sonics, Colds and Thermals. Shield Buffs also have the benefit of being active even if the team is split up.

Toggle PBAoE Buffs: Active Within a Radius
These buffs include Shadowfall, Steamy Mist, Arctic Fog, etc. They are toggle powers that buff team mates within a radius. They are useful because they boost the Defense of nearby team mates and increase certain Resistance types depending on the power. These buffs are highly useful if people are close together, but less useful if people are spread out. That is why I recommend having a source of shield buffs, as it gives you more flexibility in your positioning.

PBAoE Buffs: Best Shared with Friends
This includes RAs, AMs, World of Pain, Mind Link, etc. These buffs can increase your Regen, Recovery, Recharge, Damage, Resistance, Tohit, etc. depending on the power. Smart use of these buffs would be to fire them when all 24 raiders are gathered and attacking the AV. This will boost damage output onto the AV, and increase raider survivability as you turn to fight the Rularuu again.

Debuffers
Debuffers are perhaps the most important aspect of the team for a variety of reasons. There are many sets that offer debuffs, so instead of listing each power set specifically, I'll go over the 3 most important debuffs available and why you'd want to use them.

Resistance Debuffs: Hit 'Em Hard
These debuffs lower an enemy's Resistance, causing you and everyone in the raid to do more damage to them. A successful CoP requires you to damage the AV quickly, so resistance debuffs will help speed this up. Available in the following power sets: Dark Miasma, Radiation Emission, Cold Domination, Sonic Resonance, Storm Summoning, Traps, Trick Arrow, Thermal Radiation, Pain Domination.

Defense Debuffs: Hit 'Em Often
These debuffs lower an enemy's Defense making it easier to hit. Specifically, if an enemy is lowering your Tohit, (e.g. Lanaru the Mad's Hurricane) you can improve your chance of hitting them by lowering their Defense in return. Despite the fact that AVs resist debuffs considerably, they are still useful especially when used in conjunction with Tohit buffs.Available in the following power sets: Cold Domination, Radiation Emission, Sonic Resonance, Storm Summoning, Traps, Trick Arrow, Thermal Radiation, Pain Domination.

Regen Debuffs: Make a Lasting Impression
These debuffs lower the rate at which an enemy regains their health. In other words, -Regen makes your damage stick. The AVs in the trial have a very high regen, but it is not impossible to overcome with Regen debuffs. Regen and Resistance debuffs together mean that not only are you doing a lot more damage, but whatever damage you do isn't being undone. Available in the following power sets: Cold Domination, Radiation Emission, Traps, Dark Miasma, Thermal Radiation, Kinetics, Trick Arrow, Psionic Assault, Mental Manipulation, Poison.

Sample Team Structure
The team template below is one I've used to lead a few CoPs (with SG folks and PuG folks) that were successful. It uses the categories I've discussed above. It is not meant as a 'must have' list, but rather a rough idea of what to look for. You'll notice that there's a lot of overlap, simply because several power sets do not fit in just one category. E.g., Thermal has heals, shield buffs and debuffs. Note: not all available power sets/ATs are listed below. This is not an indication that they aren't useful, I simply did not want to overload the list.

Example Team:

1. Melee (Tank/Brute/Scrapper)
2. Heal Source (Empathy/Pain Domination/Thermal/etc.)
3. Debuffs (Rad/Dark/Cold/Thermal/Traps/etc.)
4. Debuffs (Rad/Dark/Cold/Thermal/Traps/etc.)
5. Ranged Damage (Blaster/Dominator/Corruptor/etc.)
6. Ranged Damage (Blaster/Dominator/Corruptor/etc.)
7. Shield Buffs (Force Field/Sonic/Cold/Thermal)
8. Any AT

The Trial Part 1: Obelisks

The person starting the trial will get the following mission information. (Participants of the trial can view this same message by clicking on 'Mission' from the nav bar, then clicking on 'more').

After the trial has started, everyone can enter through the raid TP in the base. You will arrive on a map with 3 obelisks called Gloom, Woe and Despair. The obelisks themselves are always in the same location, but Gloom, Woe and Despair are not always in the same place. Therefore, it is easier to refer to each one according to their position on the map: NE, SE or SW. At the center of the map is a portal, which is the entrance to the cathedral. Click here to view the map.

In order to open the portal, the obelisks must be defeated within 30 seconds of one another. In other words, co-ordination during this part is key.

All obelisks will be encased by a shield that renders them unaffected. Next to each obelisk is a Willforge (AKA "cube") that spawns Rularuu. In order to drop the shield protecting the obelisk, the Rularuu spawn must be defeated. Once the shield has dropped, you will notice swarms of Natterlings around the obelisk. These mobs increase the obelisk's regen. However, they are not much of a threat and strong damage can easily overcome their presence. Therefore, have all teams ignore them completely and focus on the obelisk.

Each team should be assigned to an obelisk by the raid leader and gather up by it and start buffing. Make sure the teams are close enough to see the obelisks, but far enough away not to draw any aggro. Once all 3 teams are ready, the raid leader can give the signal to start attacking.

Notice in this strategy, teams are in synchronization because they started attacking the Rularuu spawn at the same time. If teams are well balanced, they will do this at the same pace. If they are not balanced or if something goes wrong, one team might be done with their obelisk while another team is still clearing Rularuu.

If things don't go well, one of the obelisks will be restored before the others are defeated. If this should occur, don't worry. It's not a big deal. The best thing to do is regroup and start again after you've determined the cause of the lack of synchronization. If one team is slow, have the fastest team fly over and help them out after their obelisk is down.

An alternate method would be to have each team clear Rularuu, drop the shield, and leave it at approximately 20% health. When the next spawn occurs, leave all but a couple Rularuu left alive. Once all teams are at that point, the final mobs can be defeated, shields droppped, and obelisks taken down. I'd only use this method if the first cannot be accomplished. More often than not, if the teams are balanced, this part shouldn't be difficult as long as everyone starts attacking at the same time.

The Trial Part 2: Inside the Cathedral

Once all 3 obelisks have dropped, the portal at the center of the map will be open. There will be a cut scene (or mini movie) starring either Ruladak the Strong or Lanaru the Mad. It is at this point you will know which AV you will face once inside the cathedral. Ruladak the Strong will appear in red, whereas Lanaru the Mad will appear in purple.

Have all teams enter the cathedral and start to buff up inside. Once inside, you will notice that you have a very similar situation as you did outside: there will be 3 cubes with Rularuu spawned and this time an AV with a shield instead of an obelisk with a shield. With that said, the strategy when inside is very similar to the strategy you just used outside in the sense that each team will be assigned to a cube to clear the Rularuu to drop the shield on the AV, then once the shield is down, fire away at the AV. The main difference is that with the AV, you will have to clear the Rularuu spawn and attack the AV for multiple cycles, whereas the obelisks can be dropped in one cycle.

Since the AVs have different powers and are of different difficulty level, what you do for one will be slightly different from what you'll do for the other. Therefore, each AV will be discussed in turn.

7. Screenshots and Videos

October 2010: Here is a screenshot of a particularly successful run done in about 13 minutes vs the Storm AV by Champion players.

November 2010: I want to share a video of a CoP run on Champion vs Ruladak. It was done in 10 minutes with a mixed group of people: those who were experienced with the CoP and several who had not done one before. There is some time cut out in the middle, which is just me explaining the second phase of the trial to the group. I hope you enjoy.

March 2011: Here is a screenshot of a 9 person CoP, which was lead by my SG mate Kahlan.


8. Closing Remarks

TLDR version of the guide:

Balance your teams! Defeat the Rularuu FAST! Keep ranged toons TOGETHER when fighting the AV so PBAoE buff coverage is maximized! Do NOT stand in the HurRAWRicane if you are RANGED!

The above information has worked on several occasions. Now that the issue with the AV attacking through his shield has been fixed, the trial should be a lot more manageable.

The first time we tried this trial, we were unsuccessful. This may be the case for many groups that attempt the CoP, especially if they encounter the Storm AV. And that's OK. The CoP really is a challenging trial, and like most things that are challenging in the game, it will get better with practice and experience. The first Hami raid I ever lead took 3 hours. These days, Hami raids can take as little time as 15 minutes. I use Hami as an example because this trial is better thought of as a raid encounter instead of a trial. So if you are unsuccessful at first, do not be discouraged, do not ride the Teacups. Think about what could be improved for next time and try again. Like anything else, once people get in the swing of things, doing the CoP will be like taking a ride on Drop Zone.

Acknowledgements
My SG and coalition, for helping host CoPs and contributing to guide information
The Champion server, for participating in many of them
Silas, for suggesting the use of quote boxes
ItsCamRUN, videographer

Like I said, it has been done on Champion (on both blueside and redside). So it hasn't been done 'just once' or 'just with villain ATs'. (Not that it matters much, since people are able to switch sides). I used Virtue as an example only because they have a good break down of the strat and the progress they made during the trial. You had asked for constructive information on how to succeed, and theirs was readily available. I'm sure more information will be available as other groups start to write up their experiences.

My impression from reading it was that things didn't go so great at first and consequently, people quit or what have you. They had to regroup and recruit more. That is why it took the full hour. The promising part about this recap is that once they did regroup, modified their strat and tried again, they were successful.

I'd like to quote the leader:
That last bit being the important part. Progress was made, lessons were learned, the strat was modified in such a way that they were successful. Additionally, the leader states that despite the success, their technique could be improved upon further. I.e., with practice and more experience, they will get better. Chances are, if they attempt again using things that worked the last time, they will be successful, and it will take less time. Then if other groups start to incorporate the successful elements into their strat, the success rate should start to climb. The CoP hasn't been out that long, so why ignore evidence that people have not only been successful at it, but have also acknowledged room for improvement?

If you go to the forums you referenced in an earlier post, i.e. Virtue, they have posted about a recent, successful run done without nukes against the Storm AV. There is a break down of the strat as well, which is very similar to what was done on successful runs I've participated in on Champion. If you read the details of what happened during the trial, I think it serves as an excellent example of how progress can be made with some strategy modifications.

In my experience, you don't need 'mind boggling' levels of co-ordination to do the CoP reliably without nukes. The Storm AV may be more demanding in this department, but not impossible. The other AV is very doable with a PuG group and no nukes and in a decent amount of time.

The teams I've done the CoP with so far have been fairly balanced in terms of ATs, meaning we had a mix of each type. There hasn't been an overwhelming number of one vs another. I think with more experience with the trial people will have a better appreciation for this balance.

As for the AV's regen, bring some -regen debuffs. There are lots of power sets that offer this, and also bring -res and -def debuffs to the table. It definitely doesn't take 24 Rads either. The CoPs I've been a part of, we've had around 6 -regen debuffers, leaving lots of room for other things.

Again, I'm just speaking from my personal experience, which includes PuG CoPs as well as SG CoPs.