UberGuy

Numina is already "fixed".

It does have this bug, as does Regen Tissue. I couldn't say why they only "fixed" Numina and left them alone, but I consider it wise to assume they'll get to the others eventually.

Let me try to explain how the hype comes in. Not that this is my interpretation of the justified hype, as opposed to any lingering hype from when Regen was wildly powerful because of toggle Instant Healing.

Regen doesn't have the best mitigation, almost by definition. It mitigates almost nothing in the sense that most people use that word. Instead, as you've observed, it reacts, and fixes the damage after the fact. I'd say in general, people look at that in the context of a single fight and dislike that you may not have enough reactive tools to survive. Examples would be jumping in a pile of +4/x8 or against an AV - Regen's tools are strong, but if you have to spend them all too fast just to stay upright in a fight, it may be a sign you're probably never going to win.

However, any fight you can win, you come out basically smelling like a rose. The Regen set is rather binary - it's either fine or its dead. That's a long-standing joke on the forums and sometimes even in game, but it's very true. If a fight doesn't kill a Regen, they probably enter the very next fight very near their peak survival capability and endurance.

That makes Regen very, very strong at a "go, go, go" playstyle. The more +recharge, +resist and +defense you can layer on a Regen (usually Tough and Resilience are your only reasonable +resist options) the stronger this capability is, or the bigger a fight you can take on and still be ready for the next spawn.

You can approach this on any set with a good self heal and good recovery tools, and that's a reason people are listing Fiery Aura as well - it's got a bit of the same things going on with Healing Flames and Consume.

The only way to approach this on the more passive powersets is to actually have so much raw mitigation that you can jump in a big fight and take so little damage that your passive regen actually is sufficient to pick up the slack. That or you can pop a green and keep going (and presumably get another one next spawn to keep up the pace), or you can pick up the slack with a power like Siphon Life or Aid Self (one of the reasons that DM/* makes such tough Scrappers).

Unlike most of the sets that can hit that sort of raw average mitigation, Regen gets this "go, go, go" thing pretty early. It can play that way through most of its career, where some of these other powersets only really get to sample it pretty late or only with IOs.

So, like most powersets, it's good for certain things. I would say Regen is good for leveling, with WP and Fire as decent seconds. I haven't tried Scrapper Electric Armor; the relatively early availability of Energize might make it good too - I'm still steamed they left it fairly late in a Brute's selections.

I have always hated this as well.

With -regen. It's actually been done on at least one Blaster, since Mental Manipulation has a significant -regen power in the form of Drain Psyche.

No one I have ever heard of can brute force DPS a GM into the ground without hampering its HP regen. You need something like 330 (350?) DPS just to break even. However, with a -500% regen debuff, after you factor in the entity's resistances to that debuff (usually around 85% for a level 50 critter) you can shut down around 75% of that regen, the equivalent of applying nearly 250 DPS to them.

Currently, there are no temp powers that apply -regen to arbitrary targets, but if they ever provide any, more people might be able to solo such critters.

What strikes me about your post is that you appear to feel that investment or effort to achieve an end goal and fun are mutually exclusive. I very much don't feel that way. In fact, what I've discovered is that, without goals, I become aimless and don't enjoy myself as much. Even if I enjoy the character and playing them in game, if I have nothing to strive for in playing them, I eventually stop, and ultimately, I'll find something to do that does give me goals to "work" towards, possibly in a different game.

How I approach level 50 characters is a great example of that, I think. If I get a character to level 50, it's because I like playing them. I won't level something to 50 that's I consider a chore to play, because I make sure I play my characters to 50 (PLs are right out). Before we had inventions, I actually dreaded getting my favorite characters to 50. I faced the contradiction that, despite liking playing them, I would not feel much urge to do so with no larger goals, and pre-I9, getting to 50 was one of the few goals available (badges being the main other one).

Inventions changed that for me. Suddenly I had a reason to play my 50s - progress for them beyond their level. I didn't set deadlines, I just set goals, and I played my 50s until I reached those goals. Sometimes, those goals have been moving targets, or have been reset higher after achieving an original goal. It keeps me playing my favorite characters, and they get stronger along the way. For me, that's win/win.

Notably, I9 stomped my altitis into the ground. What I describe above isn't very compatible with making new alts all the time. My stable of characters actually became rather static, as I have tended to cycle through my existing alts and play them up the way I described. I tend to have supercharged 50s and non-50s, and no 50s that I didn't "invest" more in.

I'm OK with "investing" in my characters, because I'm invested in them emotionally. My favorites have backstories and costumes I'm proud of. To me spending time making them better characters in terms of how they function in the game is a bit of a labor of love. I don't dread it, but savor it.

I was just posting about this actually in another non-market thread (re: a tangentially related topic).

I do very occasionally spend a stretch of time actually digging around looking at stuff in them market. Whenever I do that, though, I'm usually applying what I'll tongue-in-cheek refer to "marketeering skillz" - some sort of deep dive into what prices are like across level ranges or similar items, so some sort of serious effort to both buy something right now and still pay bargain prices.

Most of the time, if my character is idle at the market, it's because I went to the market and got distracted by the forums or by fiddling with Mid's builder, or because I wandered off and ate a sandwich. Hitting the market is sort of a natural break point for me after an hour of rampaging through missions or TFs or whatnot, so my brain often wanders down some other corridor, perhaps despite originally having an in-game goal. I can't tell you how many times I broke out Mid's to look at what I needed to buy and instead started fiddling with my build instead (potentially ending up changing my shopping list after I already bought half the things on it).

I have a very hard time believing that, unless it was like with the Touch of Lady Grey's proc when it dealt like Avogadro's number worth of damage. Anyone have details on how this was purportedly done?

Edit: Ah, I read back further, nevermind.

It'd be beyond foolish to argue that this is wrong somehow, since it's a post about what you like. And honestly, I'm here to beat stuff up as well. Everything else I do is intended to support that goal.

What's important to realize though, is that other people, even if that share that primary goal with you, still enjoy other things. Having other ways to obtain success add depth to the overall experience, and scoring a great bargain purchase or a huge windfall sale are usually a source of at least short-lived joy, even for very "softcore" market users.

I certainly enjoy such little victories. But completely outside the market, which I almost entirely view as a means to an end, I enjoy more powerful characters. I couldn't tell you why, but I have always (even before IOs) enjoyed having characters that are able to do what they, arguably, should not be able to do. I enjoy that no matter whether anyone else sees it, though I usually have a childish desire to tell other people "ooh, ooh, look what I did!" It's certainly not about lording my superiority over anyone, or "beating" them. I just enjoy it for its own sake.

I also enjoy building things, and I learned long ago that building things in my head and implementing them on computers usually has a faster turn around time (and therefore quicker gratification) than building things with my hands in the real world. This is something that cemented my migration from engineering discipline to software and eventually systems design.

Because of that, I actively enjoy the challenge of fitting together an IO build and finding some balance of tradeoffs that meets my satisfaction in terms of survivability, kill speed, and endurance management. I find a certain pleasure simply in the design phase. But I especially enjoy realizing such a build in game and seeing if I really like it as much as I think. Sometimes I figure out it's not as hot as I thought and I want to change it. That's OK with me (to a point) because I do enjoy the design process.

I recognize that some people simply don't enjoy design at all, and so they won't enjoy laboriously working out character build tradeoffs. Some people certainly don't share my irrational joy at feeling like I'm breaking the rules with how powerful my characters are. And some people clearly have active distaste at various parts of using the market. Somewhere in the various overlapping of those three categories are the people who just can't figure out why anyone like me is like I am. That's cool, as long as they don't try to demonize people like me for being different - I don't sit well with that.

Edit: I do have to back the idea that anyone standing around in the market really doesn't need to be doing that. I do it every now and then when I really feel like deep diving the market looking for either some bargain or just a view of what the market is up to, but it's really quite rare since my goal is usually to beat things up. If anyone catches my characters standing idle at the market, it's probably because I am reading the forums, or I pulled up a build to see what I wanted to buy and I started fiddling with the build instead.

Lucks and/or (Eye of the Magus/Demonic) usually solve that problem.

My DDD had the 10M HP healing badge before I9 thanks to rezzing Hamidon raid wipes. (For any who did not know, rezzing people counts as healing them their full base HP - any bonus HP they have probably don't count. Rezzing 20-odd level 50s adds up fast, even if you don't do it a lot.)

You act as if it's not justified.

Maybe we're just a little jaded from the seemingly never-ending stream of people without an eighth of a clue how the market functions proclaiming not just how it's broken (and how to fix it), but then declaring how they hate things about it that aren't even true.

It's one thing to dislike the market. It's something altogether different to claim (and often vehemently defend) factual untruths about it. For example: how it takes standing around at the market for hours to use it well.

That's what Effy's comment sounded like to me. Based on the follow up, it sounds like that wasn't the case at all, but I think it might be easy to see the misunderstanding if one can see past the glare of their own halo.

I played the game and made ~800M selling stuff. Funny how you can do both, but that never stops the people who love to hate the market from claiming otherwise.

I didn't even notice this part of this post until Aedeon quoted it.

All they are describing in I17's planned features is a change to the actual GUI element that makes up the market interface. They have mentioned nothing about fiddling with supply, demand, the levels at which goods are produced, list or bid prices, relative utility of IO sets, relative weighting of drop rates, the rate at which 50s produce inf compared to lower levels ... they have mentioned none of that. Just the actual window we get when we click the WW/BM contacts.

Speculation that they will actually address any of those other things I mention, most of the things that would actually affect the price of goods, is just that: the purest of speculation.

No, toggle IH was 1000%, at least in I2, which is when I created mine. I had 5 Golgis in it and that was 2666% total regen rate (before I got to HOs, I had 2 endred and 3 heals for 2000%). I didn't get to HOs until after they were nerfed down to the regular SO schedules. (Prior to that they were always 50% enhancement.)

It's still 1000%, but it's 800% unenhanceable and 200% enhanceable.

This is not correct. They often generic names only. I have witnessed it on people I play with in just the last few weeks.

You know what's funny in a sad way? To this day she no longer drops SOs because the devs wanted to stop that farming.

Heh.

Never get involved in a land war in Asia!