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what 58 pages mean is its controversial.

[/ QUOTE ] Precisely.

Regarding your #3; I see that all the time. Being someone who plays a wide variety of ATs I see that many ATs come close to if not exceed dominators useful control. I find this especially true for MM secondaries.

How the devs that also play a varity of ATs cant see this is beyond me. Please dont nerf other ATs, instead boost Doms.

58 pages in a short time and still growing strong.
I think that, in spite of what the "doms are just fine group" say, this alone is evidence that many people agree that doms need some "dev love".
Plus we are seeing many people who have played doms to high levels and played multiple doms who agree that doms need something.
Does that mean doms "suck"? Maybe suck is to strong of a word, but yes it does mean that doms need looking at.
However, grav doms suck by definition (pun ).

I was leading with my MM and signed up a lower level grav dom the other day. Of course it was more out of pity than anything else.
Seriously, I feel bad for people playing grav doms. At least she didn't seriously screw us up with DS or wormhole or excessive knockback, she was too low for that.

True enough. I had an ill/emp controller and healing my pets made them many times more effective than they would have been otherwise.

I wonder if my Sing realizes that it cant Lift the target that I just Held?

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Thanks for posting for real Posi
Seems like you say what the "pro-Dom" people say. Some tweaks are needed but people blow some problems way out of proportion.

[/ QUOTE ] Who's asking for anything "out of proportion"? All I'm asking for is a reduction in propel activation time, make DS a toggle or single target and FGS improve the animation so you can tell whats shifted easily, and get rid of wormhole's knockback (better yet make it pile um up in a tight group). Sure longer holds and/or better damage would be nice, but it's the flawed powers and how poorly even the supposedly good powers work with my team that is the real problem.

I generally prefer to team. But everyone on my teams realizes how little grav doms bring. I even played along side a plant dom for quite a while. In 20s his seeds of confusion was quite useful, what did I have to offer to help out as much? Crushing Field? Doesn't stop attacks. Grav Dist Field? Only up once every 3 or 4 fights and duration is short. Wormhole? My melee team hates wormhole. Oh how about Dimension Shift. All teams I've been on that have seen it hate it. Yes plant dom was ok if only for seeds. Let me trade worthless DS for Seeds and I'll be happy. Let me trade virtually unused wormhole for "Spore Burst" and I'll be happy. Make propel useful for a dom (that has a whole set of damage secondaries) by decreasing it's activation time or swap it out with a useful control....

There may be a few people here who have turned these grav weaknesses into a positive for them. But maybe grav is one of the reasons why the statistics for doms are lacking when compared to others. Maybe if they really put in a few dom tweaks then the AT and even Grav will not have ongoing complaints.

You really need to play a grav dom in a melee team. After either hearing the ongoing complaints or realizing that you cant use such a large number of your powers, you would change grav.
And of course being on a large teams moving fast fighting lots of mobs... will remind you how squishy you are.
You may find that grav dom is not quite so fun in this situation.

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So true. Just take Gravity. 2 powers that are attacks when Dominators get an attack secondary? Lack of thinking there.

[/ QUOTE ]QFT

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Can you give me an example of this?

[/ QUOTE ]As I said, "not naming any names". I did have a specific example in mind that happened in the past week. Both the person who did it and people on "his side of the argument" came back and said he over reacted. I don't need to embarrass him here.
The point is some people over react to dom complaints. I maintain that is true. You really dont have to look far to see examples of this if to a lesser degree.
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could you plz post your build and play style? I have a lvl 30 dom playing just great on vicious solo and on teams.


[/ QUOTE ] Currently my playstyle is "not". Do you have a Grav dom? If not then you can not relate, IMHO Grav is somewhat unique among doms. You might compare plant, fire and ice but not grav. If you do have a grav dom then why don't you post your build and we can discuss the differences.
When I was 30 I was playing with a group of mostly melee characters who really didn't appreciate the knockback, phasing or reduced damage that my grav dom brought compared to other ATs. On occasion I had domination and powerboost ready for the main boss and was able to make a significent effect in specfic battles. But I found that situation to rare, and the non-domination holds to short, and overall damage too low considering the previous.

I too can solo or team on vicious, never said I couldn't. I just find the experience with my grav dom to be disappointing when compared to any other AT.

My complaints about my Grav dom, which are spelled out pretty well in the guide linked in my signature, were just as noticeable after getting SOs. When I questioned my doms abilities in my teens I was told about waiting for SOs, waiting for this or that power.... all of it was disappointing. IMHO my Grav Dom is just now getting respectable at 37.

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Corrupters are still 75/75. I've found the corrupter forum to actually be really helpful, but the dominator forum definitely has the lock on drama.

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That's because there are several self proclaimed uber-doms who quickly drop into insult mode and tear down anyone who says anything about doms needing any kind of change. Not naming any names but some people really flip out when anyone suggests doms aren't perfect.

You have no right to call anyone "lazy incompetent noobs". That kind of negative crap is disgusting, you should do better for yourself and for the forum. Demonizing people because they have a different opinion from yours just shows that you dont have a good counterpoint to express and/or you are the "incompetent noob" when it comes to communication.

I know you can do better.

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From my experiences Doms don't suck. They just aren't obvious like some of the more favored classes. Because they take more than a day to become proficient at, they are regularly deemed crappy by the general populace of A.D.D. Avengers and re-roll queens that inhabit our fare fantasy world. This also explains why Doms become less frequent as you go up in level, yet for some reason are on everyone’s friends list, persistently in demand and are often highly skilled.

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I'm really sick and tired of hearing the, "You just don't know how to play them," or the, "They take more skill to play," arguments, or any variation thereof. I really am. It's baseless justification that assumes the CoV community as a whole is inept at playing just this particular AT. There is not a single other AT in the game that has to be played to such an utter degree of perfection to be considered acceptably functional.

It's like an argument over Interpretist art. The artist decides without any base or justification that his work is the greatest work ever, and if you disagree then you "just don't get it".

Doms are not the least played AT because they're some big enigma. They're not the neglected emo kid that sits alone in the high school lunchroom because no one's taken the time to understand them.

Are they playable? Yes. Can they be effective? Yes. Are they the worst AT? It's arguable, but I think most people would answer yes. Do they need help? Yes, yes, and yes.

If you sit down and look at JUST a Dom, then they don't suck. If you line them up against any other support AT, they fail. They most certainly fail when compared to any damage-dealing AT, and if they don't do either thing well they most certainly do not become effective by doing two sub-par things at the same time. I would pick a Def, 'Troller, or Corr for any party any day for any mission or really any reason, before I would invite a Dom. Without a second thought.

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Well put and IMHO quite accurate. Maybe even a bit understated for Grav. IMHO.
Brief controls and low damage for most of a mission... is simply not as good as the alternative for most situations. Are there exceptions, sure, but too few and far between.

You're right... that is a good one.

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I dont understand why defenders and MMs have as good a control factor as dominators do.

[/ QUOTE ] I notice this all the time, and all the more so now that I've made two new MMs. It's astounding to me that (IMHO) my /dark has more effective controls that my grav/ except when domination is up. IMHO Even a clever /force field can control better.

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Do dominators suck?
Are they fun?

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Obviously it depends on what your definition of suck and fun is and what your expectations are. Someone who solos and doesn't mind taking his time will have no problem. A person like that may say Doms are fine and have no problems at all.
A dom that plays on a team that makes use of and appreciates the dom will be likely to have less issue with doms. However, a person who plays on what might be called a dom-unfriendly team or expects doms to solo even somewhat as fast as a brute will not be so satisfied.

What corruptors, stalkers and brutes bring to any team is an obvious positive. What Doms bring is situational. As long as you and/or your team doesn't expect a dom to be as useful as other ATs all the time, as long as you understand what a dom brings to the table and appreciate it, then all is well.

I've played on teams that just have zero need for dom controls. The dom knockback, aoe agro, and other special powers like dimension shift or wormhole are all unwanted. So all that's left is the lower damage.
Dom usefulness is situational and for some teams that situation happens rarely if ever. For other teams it may happen with almost every fight. That's why there is such diversity in the answer to your question.

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sure is a lot of trouble (involving 2 /kin corrs and a dom) to make the dom worth his slot on a team, but whatever, could be worth it, until the devs make this impossible (probably just by re-upping dom's recharge to 300 secs)

[/ QUOTE ] Nah, they'll just put the purple triangles of dom doom on regular bosses.
Even if perma domination is possable, there are some dom powersets that still wouldn't be worthwhile on a team compared to using other ATs.

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PvP and the arena are good additions to this game. It brought more options for fun.

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Such as the "option" of the 30 second Phase Shift... oh wait, that's not an option, it's being forced on the rest of us. And it certainly isn't fun. Tramples on concepts, for sure, but fun?

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Why is it when a balance fix addresses PvE and PvP, it's always PvP that gets blamed. Heck, even when it's the other way around, PvP still gets blamed. It's probably because there are people that hate PvP so fanatically that they'll blame everything on it. After all, we all know that all violence and suffering in the world stems from PvP. That being said, open your mind a bit and don't be so defensive when you read this.

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I dont hate PvP, I just dont care for it. For a lot of the reasons mentioned in Buffy's guide.

Looking at the change mentioned above, how important was it to nerf Phase Shift for PvE. Correct me if I'm wrong but it went along fine from I1 through I6 and then around the time PvP came out it got nerfed. I can see how it would be essential for this to not be perma for PvP, but for PvE it was fine. So tell me again how this Nerf was not done to PvE because of PvP? Sorry it's just a little to much coincidence and a bit too convenient. They want to have as many powers/rules/code the same between PvE and PvP as possible and this is just one example of something that worked fine in PvE but was game breaking for PvP. So yes PvE often gets hurt because of PvP.
That's just my opinion because it seems logical to me. I admit I cant prove it. I'm not upset about it I just wish we in PvE weren't being balanced to support PvP.

PS: I have PS on my blaster. It does/did not save me very often in pve even before they changed it.

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Remember... One of the hardest things in the world to do, is remaining to your vision.
Be moved, but never swayed by popular opinion.

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Is that the I1-I4 vision or the I5/ED vision? And what is the popular opinion these days?

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Whene dose issue 7 come out!?

[/ QUOTE ]After issue 6 and before issue 8. Duh!

I think that even though you have opposite points they aren't completely mutually exclusive. You can both analyze the numbers and play for concept and not min/max. I've played a lot of enjoyable characters that weren't min/maxed. I've also played characters where I thought omg this sucks, I've wasted dozens of hours and I dont even know if I can fix this with a respec. If only I had some numbers on these powers.

Some powers will still be better than others in spite of the number because of things like animation time, secondary effects, activation and recharge times, etc... and these still need people to adjust for their own play style.
Some powers, no matter how the numbers look will still suck. For example Dimension Shift. Even when used with a macro to announce it, even if you've explained how it works to your team, even if you only use it when half the team has died and people are calling to 'RUN!", people will still stand their and swing on phase shifted enemy until they unphase and finish off the group. The power is just about worthless in spite of the numbers.

lol

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Most companies just say "this is how it is!" and don't even have conversations about it. Jack could have taken the easy way out and published his thoughts on the web page with *no* ability for people to "officially" talk about it where it might be heard by himself.

It's a very gutsy thing.

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No matter how you paint it, a nerf is a nerf. Jack has come out with wrong numbers and incorrect facts, on this and other occasions, and changes were pushed through that ultimately were detrimental.

Promises made by him to his us, his customers, have gone by the wayside. There are only so many 'mea culpa's' one can credit. Or stomach.

Should Jack take flak from us for these things? Yes. Absolutely. It goes with failing to fulfill a promise.

Pardon me if I'm sceptical of any promises, past or future, that Jack makes. The track record isnt very good.

Right now, the only reason I keep my account open is because of the people in game. As more and more of those folks tire of becoming less and less heroic with each new 'nerfue' and leave, the reasons for my remaining grow less and less.

I've tried other MMO's. In some, I loved the gameplay, hated the community. Here I love the community and I used to love the gameplay.

I realize what I've said here is purely subjective, and is my own opinion. But somehow, I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way.

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I feel the same. I7 should include more counter-nerfs. I really dont understand how they can still be so afraid that something is going to get slightly overpowered while so many underpowered things go ignored. And more importantly, I dont see how they can ignore the people leaving because the game is less fun now. I dont have numbers but I believe the number of people leaving because of nerfs is matching the people leaving because the game was too easy or unbalanced.

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To-Hit Debuff powers will likely see an overall change along with defense but it's more one in predictability and an overall increase of power not a loss.

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ToHit Debuff powers will see an overall change. It actually makes them less predictable since they now scale on a curve rather than a straight line, and the overall change in power is a loss, not an increase.

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Tha's a shame.

When i'm healing, If both the blaster and the tank drop to 25% at the same time, I heal the blaster first becuase he is more likely to die on the next hit and the tank is more likely to still be going on the next it.