UberGuy
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Quote:I don't know if it will end up lining up with B_C's outlook, seebs, but I think that was a great post.
Okay! I think at this point, I can understand where you're coming from. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Slazenger
Where that is correct in some sense, when people post these recipes for silly amounts the Market and Invention forum is not the only place they appear, a quick click on New Posts or Todays post's can also reveal these people selling these recipe's clearly in the title and also it dosen't help that sellers are bumping there thread to keep it at the top of those lists.
When the Blessing of the Zephyr change came down the pike, I had a character who was going to lose defense at a level that represented a noticeable change in survival. I had around 9B inf on hand and no intention of spending it on other characters. (I enjoy the challenge of having each character bootstrap themselves to power.) I had 2.3B inf on the character who was getting hit hard by the change.
I didn't want the character to be downgraded that much by the change, so I spent 2B inf to get a PvP +3% Defense. That character remains one of my most effective. I do not feel that expenditure was "silly".
Edit: Oh, as of today, that character has 1.6B inf on hand. -
Quote:I don't understand your vitriol for farmers. The word "farmer" is for someone who is out to produce drops. At their worst, an actual farmer likely a neutral price effect on the market, because they produce drops and inf at Dev-set proportions. At their best, they keep the market in a healthy supply of stuff. I promise you, if every farmer disappeared from the game tomorrow that a whole lot less stuff would be fore sale by the end of the week.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
So, given you have to use the market to use the I/O system. You are at the mercy of Farmers and Marketeers who drive the price points. That have tons more treasure, and tons more market knowledge. The newb on the market, the newb in the game, gets walked on like the newest smallest prisoner in Folsom. Great if it was "City of abusers" not so god for "City of I want new players"
If you want to hate on anyone, you should probably be angry at AE powerlevelers. If you let your tickets cap out on a PL map, the AE produces Inf out of proportion to drops, which drives inflation.
Not all farmers are powerlevelers, and not all powerlevelers use the AE.
Next, you're back to unfounded claims that the market is "controlled" by marketeers. Are they out there? Yeah. Do they do stuff to prices from time to time? Yeah. They haven't stopped anyone else from getting rich enough off the market to get outfit their characters with way tricked out builds. -
That's a pretty radical change. I don't think any IO has ever changed from a global to a click activation before. No click activation IO has ever had a mere 10s duration before unless it was a proc effect like Build Up. The Aegis also lists no duration, a serious departure from other similar special IOs that trigger on power activation, like Stealth IOs or Miracle/Numina uniques.
It's such a radical departure and so inconsistent with other IOs, I strongly suspect what you're describing is a bug. -
Quote:Because you did it does not mean it was necessary in a game-mechanical sense. It was a choice, probably including many smaller choices on the way. One of those choices, for example, probably involved how active you were in using the market to earn money. You could have had a different outcome by making different choices.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Errr, actually, this is true. Sad but true. I even had to geek my last main, using all my vet respecs to strip purps from him. I have invested 99% of my treasure in my new main, and he is still not "complete". i FEEL that after fourty two months I should have at least 2-3 mains with good treasure on them, instead I have one uber main incomplete and a trail of geeked characters respec'd out of their limited treasure to create my main.
The proof is that other people have done it. With the kind of argument you're making here, only one example to the contrary has to exist to counter your position, but we've had a fair handful of them. -
Quote:Others have said it, but is so incredibly important I'm going to repeat it too.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
You seem to not be reading my posts, so this is the last time I will respond to you. You have to use the market like a store in oredr to use the I/O system. That is, unless you want to collect every recipe and ingredient yourself.
The market is not a store. I understand that you want it to be. We've explained reasons it almost certainly never will be. The stores you want exist. You need to use "currency" besides inf to access them, and this will almost certainly always be the case.
You seem to feel the system is not fair because, well, it doesn't work the way you would like it to. It's "fair" in the sense that everyone has the same access to it. No one else can crack the hood on the market and make it give them more stuff - everything anyone else can do, you can do too. I can understand that you may not want to do that stuff, but that's not unfair. And having it possibly take a long time to earn stuff (though I don't think nearly any example of how long it takes has been realistic) is not only not unfair, it's almost certainly intentional and thus very unlikely to change significantly any time soon. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Misaligned
Re: The PvP 3% def IO
Personally, I'm baffled. Yes you get 3% def at any level. Yes you get 10% chance for teleport resistance. Yes, you can slot it in addition to a steadfast 3% def. And yes, it can potentially save you up to 4 slots in a very tight build. Personally, I just don't see it being worth it - not even at 100 mil. But then again, I never had a problem selling the 2 I have gotten for over the 2 billion mark.
Example with maths. Otherwise maxed out character. Defense allotment: 35% melee, 22% both ranged and AoE. Already has the Steadfast +3% slotted.
Current average damage avoided: Melee = 70%, Ranged/AoE = 44%/44%
Average damage avoided after adding 3% more to all positions: 76%/50%/50%
So I'm taking, on average, only 80% as much melee damage as before and 90% as much ranged and AoE damage. Assume for a moment that 2/3 of all damage you take is melee damage (my example here is a melee character), so we can weight this (yay, more averaging) and get 80%*2/3 + 90% * 1/3 = 5/6.
If I'm taking 5/6ths as much damage on average, and I was previously playing on settings where I was usually just shy of dying frequently, I can now turn up my settings so that I'm taking on 6/5ths or 120% as much damage and still not die. So I can survive more stuff at once, or keep the amount of stuff the same, and fight versions of it that do up to 20% more damage per blow.
For someone who doesn't care about pushing the envelope like that, it's totally and completely not worth it. The people who want that are like the CoH version of street car tweakers. We'll do just about anything for that last edge, because we just want to go faster. -
Quote:That was the thing that really bugged me about it. (Went and confirmed it after reading CC's post.) Carefully inspecting my own bonus list isn't something I do often, but I have used it to confirm how some things were working.Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
Pretty sure that's a bug, and not WAI. You can't even see your own set bonuses atm.
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Quote:I just mostly wanted to make sure other people also thought of that interpretation of the response Hera got back. It seemed like it could set a tone for folks reading the OP.Originally Posted by Jetpack
Uber - Hera considers selling on the market as part of the market mini-game. See above.
Really? I missed that. That seems like an odd change to me.Quote:Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
I'm going to throw this out because its something you might not know.
Issue 19 does away with publicly seeing set bonuses. Come I19 it will be impossible to know who is purpled and who is not. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
However, this is my FEELING, the market system does not serve new/casual players well, nor does it serve the Devs well.
To me, the market is necessary, because you need it to trade for I/Os and Salvage with other players. But the abuses in the market need to be reined in. The market favors long term players and farmers, because they have effectively unlimited cash. This puts new players and non farmers (who mostly play content) at a huge disadvantage. Unfairness in any system ruins everything.
Do you feel that a new, casual player is served well looking at level 50 characters, seeing how comparatively bad-*** they are even just outfitted with SOs? (And try to imagine this after a few slots of Incarnate are filled.) Do you think it's unfair that long-term, established players and those who know how to leverage the game optimally have an unfair advantage over those casual, new players because they know ways to get 50s faster, and possibly have resources the new, casual player does not?
If they really want to get to 50 faster, and they get really impatient about it, they can do things. They can start researching the system, finding ways to level faster. They can ask for help. They might even make use of a power leveler.
Once they do those sorts of things, they may still be new, but they cease being a n00b. If they really start digging, I don't think they remain "casual," either. And while some of the particulars are don't compare quite so easily, I don't think the market is any different.
The established market users have access to no resource that a new, casual player can't acquire with time and experience, even if the new player does not actually start out equipped with that resource. An established player with multiple level 50s character has access to something that a new player doesn't start out with, but that new player can get there with time.
In the market, the main difference is that it's not as ... "instanced" as the rest of the game's progression. There's stuff there that helps you progress, but sometimes other people get to it first, and that can technically make that stuff "harder" to get to. Just because you're involved in some degree of competition, however, does not make that competition unfair. In this thread, serveral posters have revealed anecdotes about how they have not been playing long in the scheme of things, and how much wealth they have earned. They did that despite people like me playing the market and being extremely wealthy long before they came along, and some people not like me doing so much more aggressively.
You need to understand that there is so much influence coursing through the markets that "trickle-down" wealth distribution almost has no choice but to work in them. The rich players, be they old establishment or new, high-energy entrepreneurs, are willing to douse other people with money just to buy what they want quickly. The way bids and sales are matched plus the blind bid system encourages this. Other players who are not rich can use this extremely easily to get rich in startlingly little time. I agree that this is not immediately obvious to everyone, but it happens all the time to anyone who really bothers with the market.
The last part is key. We don't have to massively regulate the market, we just need to get word out that, despite being somewhat arcane, the market is actually very, very easy to use in terms of selling stuff to earn stuff. Perhaps that somewhat arcane nature makes it less friendly to new, casual players than it could be, but I don't believe it's so distant that they cannot learn to use it, and thus I am loath to mess with it directly in very severe ways.
While I may accept that the market could be better, I do not accept that it is actively broken and must therefore be fixed. "Fixing" the market is dangerous, because the market's vitality depends on player participation. If the "fix" drives down or away the existing core participants, then potential new participants will be less inclined to participate because sufficiently low core participation makes the market less useful as a tool to everyone. -
Incoming wall of text. There is a point in there, but I have to give a lot of background to get to it.
Consider the Incarnate system for a minute. Take a look at what's been revealed it. It shares some loose features with the Inventions system, primarily in that there's a sort of "salvage" and crafting involved. But there are some key differences. One of the most glaring among them? You can't trade or sell the Incarnate "salvage" pieces, or anything you craft with them. As long as that's true, Incarnate stuff can never appear on the market. Someday they might appear in some sort of "token" store, but probably not for a long while. It's inconceivable that we could ever buy the Incarnate components with (just) Inf.
The Incarnate system clearly represents character progression. As you unlock additional slots, and craft more and more rare versions of abilities, your character will get more powerful. But since you can't buy any that progress with Inf, you have to do stuff. Rest assured, even if they someday introduce an Incarnate component store based on some hypothetical "Incarnate Merits", you'll still have to do stuff to earn those merits, and there will be solid constraints on how fast you can earn them.
It's pretty much just like earning XP. We can't go anywhere and spend inf to get XP. To make progress on our characters, we can't just buy it, so we'll have to do stuff.
Inventions are supposed to be like that too, but the introduction of the market(s) as a distribution system have distorted people's view of it. People get this idea that they just want to hit 50 (or whatever level), then run out and grab all the IOs they have laid out in a Mid's build (or whatever) and be good to go. But the devs never set that expectation. From the onset, the Invention system was touted as an optional, alternate progression system. You can use IOs as another way to get more powerful. Before the announcement of the Incarnate system, Inventions were the only way a character capped at level 50 could continue to progress their power.
Of course you can start progressing in IO power before 50, but that doesn't change the Devs' expectation - working towards your character progress means you have to do something.
Let's look at purple IOs in particular. Unique among all IOs, you cannot slot them when you are within 3 levels of their level. You could slot any other level 50 IO once you hit level 47, but you can't slot a purple at all unless you are actually level 50. Do you really think the Devs expected everyone who wanted purples to have them all laid out ready to go as soon as they hit 50? I certainly don't think that at all. I think they expected people to get to level 50 and then keep doing stuff to work towards any purples (and any other non-purple IOs) they wanted.
Any store the Devs give us that allow us to create purples or whatever are going to have prices set based on whatever standard the Devs have for how long they think we should spend doing stuff. I think that's the primary reason that they only let us have fixed price stores in terms of non-Inf "currency" like merits - we can't just consolidate all our merits from our other characters, or buy merits from a RMT seller. We actually have to do stuff with a characters to earn merits, and both Alignment and Reward Merits are set up to try and control our rates of reward. (Alignment Merits are limited in the number allowed per day, and Reward Merits try to tie the number of them to the time it's supposed to take to complete content.)
The Devs constantly work to ride the fine line between listening to their customers and ruining their cash cow. They are going to try to give us things they think we want while cleaving to their notions of what is good and healthy for the game. They want rewards to take time to obtain. Now, the Devs do fiddle with how much time rewards take, as well as what they want us to do to get them, but I don't think it's ever going to be reasonable to expect them to make it trivial to obtain things that amount to progression in their eyes. -
Quote:"100 fold" means "times 100".Originally Posted by InUse
I had to google 100 fold; as my math is not as good as yours but are you saying a tanker is 1,267,650,600,228,229,401,496,703,205,376 tougher than a scrapper?
However, even that's not literally true. Assuming all the same toys, comparable powersets, and choosing some powersets in the Tanker's favor, you're more likely to be on the order of the tanker being 10x as hard to kill. Assuming you have some +defense in your powersets, it's also going to be cheaper/simpler to get a Tanker to the defense softcap (assuming no outside buffs), because they have higher defense numbers for the same powers compared to a Scrapper or Brute.
If you want to be really amazingly hard to kill, attract lots of aggro to yourself, and do OK but not usually amazing damage, pick a Tanker. If you want to hit like a truck and be decently hard to kill, pick a Scrapper. If you want to straddle those two, leaning towards Scrapper damage and survival performance solo and Tanker survival performance on a team with buffs, pick a Brute. -
Quote:Whoever wrote that didn't really sound like a "schmoe" with respect to things CoH. It didn't even sound like someone who simply researched it, unless they did a really good job. That sounded to me more like someone who has followed the game - they had a good grasp of its background and current state of affairs. Their questions were more germane in a lot of ways than many of the ones we see from gaming sites.Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Wow, even some schmoe at the Post knows our engine is getting old. That's saying something.
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Quote:If you look at the quote here, you took the point you were making a bit beyond just one of perception about defense. You set up as that the matter of perception is whether or not one is cool with constant trips to the hospital, not whether or not defense "felt like" good mitigation.Originally Posted by Skyster
But that's all just my opinion, some players must like visiting the hospital. I really would rather not.
Making the subjective part be about whether going to the hospital a lot is OK with people makes it sound like the fact that you go to the hospital more with a defense character is just a fact.
You probably didn't mean it that way, but reading it like I did here, I can see it compelling people to reply. -
Cardiac. My Widow is swimming in recharge, and I do plenty of DPS. More is nice, sure, but my problem is she drains her end bar like there's no tomorrow, even though I've slotted for end reduction fairly aggressively and have all the usual recovery toys. Her end consumption is her one glaring weakness, and Cardiac line will address that nicely.
(If you want to see what the Cardiac line would be like, roughly, and you have the Mutant booster pack, see how your Widow plays if you can get Mutation: Pain Tolerance. It gives 30% global end reduction.) -
Ooh, the Panacea anecdote is almost physically painful to read.
I have the recipe delete prompt option on to avoid that sort of thing. Since SO enhancement drops are meaningless to me at 50 in the modern game, I also got around to turning that prompt back on too, since I sometimes store valuable crafted enhancements in my tray and realized I might accidentally delete one. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Misaligned
Ah... but here the sticky wicket that no one talks about. You don't slot 1 purple. You slot 5 per set sometimes 6. When you can, for most builds, you would want to slot 5 sets of 5.I agree. As much as some builds benefit from high recharge (and I play several that do very much), the opportunity cost of doing this has never been worthwhile, and I don't mean cost in Inf. There are other things that I want as well as high recharge in those builds, and slotting five sets would take too much of those other things away. I know that gets into "when you can", but I think some people would read that as "when you have places to slot them," and I don't think that would actually hold for any build I've played with.Quote:Originally Posted by all_hell
I don't think [this] is true. There may be some build where that makes sense, but I highly doubt it's "most builds"
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I wanted to point out something that occurred to me with regards to the response in the OP.
Quote:I'm not sure if anyone thought of it this way, but it's not clear that the respondent was saying you have to "marketeer" - do things like flip, or try to create price spikes. I think that's how many regulars would read "play the market minigame". But to my thinking, interacting with the market at all is playing the minigame, even if you just come and sell stuff you got playing the main game. And I think that reading of the response remains logically valid - you don't have to become a flipper (for example) to afford stuff on the market, but you probably do have to at least be a seller.Originally Posted by Heraclea
This inflation tends to be daunting to new players. You have to play the market minigame to buy anything desirable there. It would be a truly daunting proposition to try to buy anything worthwhile by fighting mobs for currency drops.
Now, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If the market is going to be the main place to buy stuff, there's no real conflict in having the prices at which you buy things being primarily attainable by first selling things there.
If all we got by playing the game was "currency drops", as the respondent put it, then I think this would be a very poor situation. Fortunately, that's not the case; we get saleable drops too. Moreover, the existence of the various "token" currencies allow interested players an alternate (and more deterministic) means jump starting entry the market - they can use tokens to create something valuable directly and then sell it on the market to create a starter fund.
I do think that there may be some issues with "sticker shock". However, I don't think my issue with that phenomenon are what most people who complain about the prices would expect. I think sufficient sticker shock acts as discouragement to participate, which may help keep people from experimenting with, becoming comfortable with and thus frequently using the market. I like the idea of more people using the market, so I have some dislike of this notion, even though I have no proof it occurs with meaningful numbers of players. -
Quote:As I mentioned earlier today in a different thread, I believe there's a serious problem with that from the Devs' perspective. Those other currencies have more tightly controlled earning rates per time than Inf does. Every time there's a new exploit, Inf pours into the system. People with high end builds and AoE damage-focused powers, people who play on "super teams", they all have far more Inf/time/character earning power than a same-level character who plays on more mundane teams with more mundane or, single-target builds.Originally Posted by Heraclea
That's why I suggested a vendor that sold any recipe, up to the Gladiator 3%, for a straight fee. That would provide the value of inf with a floor it could not fall through.
Remember, a store creates supply, just like drops. The implication of adding a store is that you're going to increase supply unless prices are so high at the store that the supply created by drops undercuts the new store's prices at the market. Right now, this is actually the case with a lot of purple recipes from the A-Merit store - it's significantly more time and cost effective for a savvy player to obtain the Inf to buy purples off the market than it is to grind out Alignment Merits to create them.
The devs don't want things like PvP+3% and puple IOs to be common on the market and/or in the hands of players. They want them to be rare and hard to obtain. In order to ensure that the ability to create them using Inf, which is the game currency with the least-controlled production rates and the one with no practical limits on transfer, the Inf prices for these things would have to be astronomically high - higher than they are on the market today (like with Purples and A-Merits) to keep the supply from jumping upwards. But if the price in Inf at the store was more than the price in Inf at the market, no one would use the store unless the market supply dried up.
It's for these reasons that I do not ever expect to see an Inf-based store for rare, valuable items. The devs may continue to give us new, currencies with which to buy things (but only new currencies with well-defined reward/time rates), but I do not believe they will ever let such items be bought with Inf. I think any useful Inf sinks will have to take some other form. -
Quote:It's a good question, but I think the A-Merit costs are our answer from the devs.Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
What I am wondering, is did the devs actually intend for the PVP IOs to be rarer than purps... They are orange... SO, this is why I wonder. I know they are rare because PVP is not as populated, but because of the orange color, I would think that they are not really supposed to be as hard to get as purps, but because of supply that is why they are more rare.
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Quote:A "nice active game" and "lotsa newbs with 50s and purps" do not necessarily have to go hand in hand. And no, many, many people would disagree that this would be a good thing. Many people oppose the notion of making it extremely easy to get to 50. (Nearly every time the game has explicitly been made easier there were very vocal complaints about it being unnecessary.) Concentrating everyone at 50 makes the earlier levels into no-mans-lands where no one wants to be.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Wouldnt it be nice to have a very active game with lotsa newbs getting 50s and having lotsa Purps? YES. Especially if they did it through normal content.
Moreover, if everyone had purple IO sets at easy access, this implies they would of course have other IO sets as well. If IOs were that readily available, then the devs would feel compelled to rebalance the baseline difficulty of the game. Today, they can balance it around SOs because IOs are rare enough to gain that a minority of players make heavy use of them.
This is by design - the increased power they offer act as a carrot for the players with the personality to chase them. That carrot keeps them on the treadmill, and keeps them paying long-term subscriptions. Keeping it relatively hard to achieve keeps a limited number of people from doing it, and thus shifting the overall balance of the entire game.
I keep playing this game because it takes me time to get stuff. If I had everything I would have gotten bored and unsubbed a long time ago. I prefer to lavish on a limited number of favorite characters. Back before we could do that, I parked them and stopped playing them. Now I can keep them active and pursue their ongoing growth beyond just level 50, and for a couple of years before we got the promise of Incarnates. -
Quote:Which does not excuse the things you did which I already enumerated.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Actually, I have specifically thanked many individuals on the opposite side of this argument from me, and at least once radically altered my position due to the sense they made. I believe that I have slightly altered my position a couple times more based on the logic and common sense that I have heard from some individuals that disagreed with me.
Since you didn't compare anyone to criminals or political figures you clearly disapprove of, no, I don't see any insults.Quote:I have taken a few philosophy classes in college, and had some lively debates. I have a couple years college level mathematics under my belt. I have debated detailed and hard to understand concepts previous to this post. Most of you do not care about this, and I am sure this will be fodder for at least one more line of juvenile insults. Am i blanket insulting again? Hmmm. Probably according to the above referenced post.
Everything I've posted has either been about those topics, or about your posts on those topics. I happen to have added information about the broader game. Like it or not, the market does not exist in a balance vacuum, and we can't ignore factors outside of the market that influence how the devs handle the in-game supply of goods.Quote:Here is a suggestion. Try to stay on topic. (Topic equals Market is broken cause I/Os cost too much) So either add some reasonable postulates explaining why the market needs to be changed, and how it can be changed, and why the Devs should do this.... OR..... Explain why the market is perfect just the way it is, AND why the Devs would harm the game by making things a little easier for new players wanting a great toon. -
Quote:1) People have made this suggestion before. It has been met with limited resistance. You were not flamed specifically because you suggested a fixed price store. You were flamed becauseOriginally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I bet you two things 1) If I had made the argument for selling purps for merits before the Devs instituted the A Merits i would have gotten flamed the same, or worse. 2) The Devs, in the future, make more moves to please their consumer base, so that (OMG, this is SHOCKING) people can have multiple purp'd out 50s after a couple years. (maybe even 5 or 6, eeek, even if it is not needed to play, oooooh)
- You initially suggested something else completely, only later either better explaining or, in my opinion, completely changing what you were suggesting
- You suggested probably the most unlikely target out of all possible things on the market for anyone to manipulate was as expensive as it is only because it is being manipulated
- You repeatedly referred to anyone on the other side of the argument using an insulting tone. You were insulted directly by some posters who disagreed with you, not all of them, but you descended to and remain at the level of leveling blanket insults at everyone who disagrees with you
Based on your position, begging for farmers to be nerfed is probably dumb. They increase supply. Yes, they also increase currency in circulation, but they keep the bread lines at the actual price cap shorter.Quote:I will not bet this, but it is my sincere hope. A) Farmers get nerfed to oblivion
I think that's a pipe dream. The devs know what people do in the market. There are things they could do to reduce market volatility which would also serve in some ways to reduce manipulation. They would not be unhealthy things for the devs to do. Honestly, I don't think the devs care, because they know you don't need any of this stuff. They know it's just nice to have. They aren't losing sleep because someone made it hard for you to buy virtual caviar when you have access to infinite supply of virtual tuna fish.Quote:Market manipulators get "managed" to such an extent they might as well be working in cubicles for the Devs. -
Quote:Do you think I found and read them, given that I referenced them by description? Both examples of why a "price cap" is a terrible idea. Yes, the Soviet one is a better example.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Did you find them? Seriously, I want to know. Did you read them? No, really. Read them. The Cuba one, the poster was like, this is not a good example because... And Guess What? Was not a good example. I am not going to explain why. You either read it and grok, or whatever. As far as the Soviet post, again, someone is not reading my posts.
Yes, I read your posts. I understand that you changed or explained your idea, and that it is not actually a "price cap".
You see, that's why, in my last post, I didn't spend much time talking about why "price caps" are a terrible idea. Instead I talked about your idea of a fixed price store based on inf, and why that's an idea we will never see come to pass for rare and powerful items without radical restructuring of how we earn and transfer inf.
And none of that addresses the fundamental failure on your part to answer any of the posts that reasonably explain why PVP +3% defense IOs cost 2B inf (or more) without imagining manipulation and griefing.
Yeah, I got it. If you actually read the other parts of my post, you would know that.Quote:The suggestion i am making for fixing the market (and improving the fun and game play enjoyment of the Devs customer base) is to have a Buy It Now feature for recipes, every recipe, Caping at say 250 mil for Purps, and 500 mil for PvP. these prices are suggested, and the Devs will prob pick a diff figure. The point is Griefers will not be able to charge 2 bill (or 3 bill) for enhancers. AND it means both those examples have no merit as counter arguments.
Hint: keep stuff like that out of your posts. Real-world politics are explicitly disallowed by the forum rules.Quote:You can usually tell these because they are filled with insults, little information, and a sense of self righteousness worthy of W when he invaded 2 countries and drove the American deficit into "only China will buy" territory. -
Quote:That's exactly correct. They have the chance. Those chances are determined by probabilities, and for the items in question, those probabilities are low. Some people who really want those items stop playing casually, and do things to increase the number of random checks per unit time that they get to see if they get a good item.Originally Posted by SuperFerret
What I'm talking about isn't regarding any sense of entitlement. A casual player that plays this (or any game) for fun still has the chance to get one of these drops and potentially use it.
The argument being made is not that casual players are to be denied those same chances. What's being argued is that they have no special right to the same chance at access as someone who plays more and/or plays more aggressively to increase their cumulative chance at the same reward.
I am confident that no one meant that at all.Quote:I understand what you're saying, but the statements that I responded to seemed to state that those casual players who have the luck to get these random drops don't deserve it and should give them up.
A "casual" attitude towards the game is incompatible with the notion of meaningfully using ultra-rare IOs in a build. The whole point of these things is that, used in careful combination, they make your characters wildly more powerful. Seeking out ways to make your character wildly more powerful is not a "casual" mindset, broadly speaking. A casual player can adopt this mindset, but the more involved in it they become, the less and less they can be considered "casual" players.Quote:Also, deciding to seek out IO recipes and improve your character doesn't remove your casual attitude, at least in my eyes.