Another_Fan
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Posts
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Quote:The 4H club suggests Rad/Dark/pick an epic with a resist shield (Mu Preferred) OROriginally Posted by Micro Atomic
Last I heard /MM is keeping Drain Psyche, so it will still be overpowered and the most suited secondary for a blasting farmer.
Rad/Fire/pick an epic with a resist shield (Mu Preferred)
Farming Tip of the day
Kill Rate >>>>>> Everything else -
Quote:Strange GameOriginally Posted by Hopeling
Or somewhere in between? Depends on the build and the situation? Can this be described only by absolutes and superlatives? Here is this week's edition of Huge Blaster Buffs: Which Blasters Will Be Terrible Now That They're Awesome(er).
(thread split from here.)
Edit: Or not, I guess.
The only winning move is not to play -
Quote:No it doesn't at all. It's amazing that you consider yourself qualified to determine what is misinformation in this context when you haven't brought anything to the table yourself.Originally Posted by Hopeling
Misinformation doesn't help the original poster.
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Quote:Of course you did.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Considering that I made all of the forum old guard explode about it, and started SEVERAL ~20 page threads about it in recent memory.. Pretty sure I had something to do with all of this.
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Quote:Listening to you, you would think you were the only person to ever play an arch/ment or at least a particularly talented user of the combo. Amazing isn't it.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Ohh sorry, I'm assuming you're just practicing for hiding behind my /Ment Blaster on your lolnrg while I take alpha strikes for you and you post on the forums about how leet you are. Yawning should be worked into your attack chain!
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Quote:400% Regen against a boss/AV/GM you don't have to stand next to vs 150% against one you have to hug. Yes it is very hard to compare the two.Originally Posted by Hopeling
High-recharge perma-DP builds soloing on x8 aside, 1400% regeneration part of the time is, in some ways, better at keeping you alive than 300% regeneration all of the time. Sustain powers are certainly easier to take advantage of, but not strictly superior. There is no reasonable way to look at a power that is four times stronger under the right circumstances and say "no, there's no way this can be an advantage".
It would have to be changed.Quote:Drain Psyche is a poor substitute for Sustain. But then, Sustain is a poor substitute for Drain Psyche. /MM will still be good - in fact, it will still be the best - at the things it is already the best at now. /Mental is the only Blaster secondary that is so good that it was left out of the i24 buffs because it would have to be weakened.
But enough of this. Neither you or THB, is actually interested in helping the original poster. -
Quote:*Yawn*Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
oh no! You can sit at range and regen more! *shudder*
(By more, I mean less. Good luck soloing 54x8 with no Broot to hide behind, and good luck stalemating GM's, LOL.)
Derp, did you miss my 'Ode to Archery' thread...? Fire Blast all day. -
Quote:I laugh. Because when you see what the other secondaries will be doing after the changes you will be dropping ment like a hot potato. I also bet you're going to be dropping archery even faster now that everything has a non crashing nuke.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Yea, the obvious answer here: Mental doesn't need a buff. The rest of the secondaries are being buffed to be as survivable as /Mental, in a relative sense, probably because Arbiter Hawk found one of my /Mental builds and realized how underpowered the rest of the Blaster secondaries were in comparison.
I even suggested that the Dev's use /Ment as a measuring stick for buffing other secondaries, while babies whined about nerfing /Ment to be as crappy as everything else. For the record, I won. Other Blaster secondaries are now being buffed to be as 'relatively survivable' as Mental. You still don't have the offense to compete with high end results, and your defense (read: Not 'defense' the mechanic, but 'defense' as in sports; Offense v. Defense) is much easier to use. I know you simpletons love simple things.
So, it takes way less inf and way less cleverness to build a Blaster that's about 75% as durable as a peak /Ment Blaster, come i24. It also won't have a -regen power, but that's ok. The people who are sooper stoked about these changes are people who play Blasters that weren't God Moding the game (on Blasters) before i24 like I've been doing.
You guys just need to realize that you're getting a consolation prize for not playing /Ment and move on.
Also, you're welcome for making such a stink pointing out how crappy all of your Blasters were by showing mine off around the forums. I'm sure you hate me for it, but I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if Dev's took notice, since they followed the spirit of ALL of my suggestions to give the common folk (that's what I call most of you) a consolation prize, in order to feel that you were relevant.
NOTICE:
I DO NOT SPEAK FOR /MENT AS A WHOLE, OR THE COMMUNITY THAT PLAYS IT.
MOST OF WHAT I DO WITH THE SET IS EQUALLY, IF NOT MORE RELIANT UPON MY OWN INTUITION AND BUILD SKILLZ AS IT IS ON THE AWESOME POWERSET ITSELF. IF MORE PEOPLE QUOTE ONE OF MY POSTS QQ'ING ABOUT A /MENT NERF, I WILL BE VERY ANNOYED. I'M SORRY FOR BEING SMARTER THAN YOU. MENTAL ISN'T EVEN A PARAGON MARKET SET YOU LAZY *******(S.)
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Quote:Mental is only considered great currently because it has a taste of what every other secondary lacks. But that is all it is a taste, and unless you are playing a blapper 99% of the time it's pretty minor. 7.5 Hp/Sec/Target in melee range is just not that great and quite frankly I have found trading it off for extra defense to be a pretty good trade.Originally Posted by Hopeling
Is there a change that will prevent Mental from having two AoE powers and >1000% regeneration at least part of the time? No. /Mental is excellent already, and i24 won't make it any less excellent.
This isn't even the correct question. The question is will the changes to the other sets allow them to do a better job keeping your blaster alive ? The answer is yes they will. They will give their sets options that mental doesn't have. Mental won't even be able to come close without very expensive IO builds and forcing a particular play style on people using it.Quote:Will /Mental build and play differently than the other sets with standardized Sustain powers? Yes, definitely. Does that make it "bottom of the pile"? No, definitely not.
After that you are debating if a low damage immob like subdual is a better choice than a high damage immob like ring of fire. If, mental's aoes are more useful than fires or electrics.(hint they aren't) If world of confusion provides more mitigation than ice patch or Power Sink.(hint it doesn't) If Scare works better than shocking grasp, freezing touch, or taser, (hint it doesn't).
Edit:TBF /Mental will have one trick up its sleave -regen which will be very nice for people that want to solo AVs and GMs. I can't say I consider this a reasonable build goal because the rewards are measured in merits/hour not merits/min. -
Quote:You need to finish your statement THB. /Mental will still be the best secondary for AE farming as long as they don't nerf patrol farms.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
This is nowhere near being true. In fact it's the least true thing I've read all day. If you know how to build and play, /Mental will still be the best Blaster secondary in the game after i24. It just doesn't go well with Dark Blast.
Edit: Even that is pretty iffy. Permanent build up from /Dark and regen and recovery will likely trump /mental the same is true for martial combat. /Fire will be damage output vs higher levels of regen.
Edit: There are some statements that are so clueless, I can't integrate them into my cognitive space easily. The bolded bit is one of those. Sans the upcoming buffs to blaster secondaries Dark/Mental is a very good pairing. Come I24 it will go from, "That's a nice combo you got there" to "Why did you do that ?"
There is a buff for mental ? I must have missed it.Quote:Originally Posted by Hopeling
Don't mind Another_Fan. He's been on this weird kick lately where he likes to claim that the huge buffs in i24 are going to somehow make [every secondary except whichever one he's fixated on this week] trash or otherwise "doing it wrong". -
Blunt Answer:
Take Advantage of DBL XP and roll something else.
/Mental is well on its way to the bottom of the pile for I24. It's sustain is nearly impossible to make truly permanent especially if you want the in combat/out of combat levels the other sets will have. /Mental still has 3 synergies with Dark Blast, (Extra cone for AoE chain, Immob, and Ease of softcapping ranged) but you can get all of that with other secondaries or epics. Taking the electric epic is actually better than having subdual because you can stack the two holds and have the extra cone attack.
That said
Here is my current low cost build for the combo. The only really costly piece at the moment is the overwhelming force proc.
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If I were going to roll this today I would likely go Dark/Energy manipulation, maybe Dark/Ice if I wanted to mix it up. -
Quote:They used to do a special damage type. I think it was Nicti.Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
Don't enemies resist -damage with their resistance values?
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Quote:That would be because Kheldians really enjoyed having their own special foe, that did irresistible damage, or spawned endless legions of pets. I mean it was such fun, people used to demand Kheldians on the team.Originally Posted by Sensaround
So don't reduce it. Instead, share the wealth. If a kinetics character is on a team, allow for a chance of a kinetic enemy in every enemy group, similar to spawning void seekers and crystals when a kheldian is present. How's that for dramatic tension? Any given combat you could be on the receiving end of fulcrum shifted damage! Wouldn't that be exciting?
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Quote:The fast recharge is accounted for there. I allow for 1 double cast in the 30 second window. mostly because you are going to go through 2 chains before you get your first one off unless you frontload with Tidal forces.Originally Posted by Hopeling
You can (and probably should) build stacks before getting mezzed; having it in a power that's usable while mezzed is helpful, but not the sole purpose. You also didn't account for the instant recharge on Water Jet, which is silly since it's the main reason I'm slotting it there. 6 casts of Water Jet per 30 seconds is easily done, even if I never use it during the Enhanced Water Jet lockout.
You are right it does have value. I would say it will be a solid quality of life improvement for blasters. I just don't see the aggregate of the changes taking blasters into the x8 range that other non force multiplier ATs are able to manage (or for that matter offensively oriented force multipliers).Quote:Also, you seem to be assuming that NPC mez is usually mag 3, like player mez is, but IIRC this is not actually the case. Mag 2 will protect you from a fair number of things; it's not totally worthless below 3 stacks.
Well catalysed ATOs are a little of no go zone for me. The only way of obtaining them in a reasonable time frame are the gamble packs. The snipe changes seem insane enough at this point could you imagine if the devs said to scrappers "Well we are taking away your crits but you can have better ones if you take these powers and these IOs. Oh and that is only on half your primaries and half your secondaries". I bet you would be able to hear the grinding of teeth.Quote:Thirdly, considering that you're talking about taking alpha strikes from large groups of Rikti and having 150% global recharge, it would probably be more realistic to use the Superior version's proc rate, which should be 5 PPM under i24 rules (with my planned slotting for Water Jet, this means a 57.8% proc chance). -
Have you thought about backing off the recharge and shooting for other build goals ? As things stand you have Hail of bullets up every 33 seconds, come I24 that will be every 28 seconds
Anyway here is a rearrangement of your build that both improves upon your recharge and significantly increases your defense.
Dual wield Takes the 2nd Blaster ATO for an addition 10% recharge and some extra defense. Conserve Power gets a set of doctored wounds or panacea for another 5% or 7.5% extra recharge. This brings you up to 121% global recharge and relatively decent defense all around.
You are also set to take advantage of chaining build up and 1ppm Gaussian proc with Hail of Bullets.
Code:You might want to consider droping your global without hasten to the 90% range and going for a S/L softcap| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1488;680;1360;HEX;| |78DA65935B6F125110C7CFC222D21681DE282D94525A815E1668BD468D896D6D6A8| |A2136D147DCC20636C1658525B18F7E05359AB4B58DFAE48B2F5EE20731EA97F0F2| |EE034E77FE50029BECF9CDCECC99CBD939B927EB431F369FDE149277ADAA361A855| |BB45A5ADD7D57B59A75B52AE8713F68EE92CE74933C057BE19E6A94B592B2DE54AB| |85BCDEB06AD546BC6DDB699A66AD6E291B86562FEF1572AAA19BCDAA6AE93523B06| |554B4BA66584A5B18C8D76A5565C7D4B4D2902D6E6BAAA91B65AFFD715B2F572CFA| |F2B54D25ADDEA8E86668C3D48B4A3B614E2D6AB49CC87B13546592DE905FE069B9C| |4BE5388AC2C1C07E021537E0D1E31B3C7CC47A2B357160F85AD3BA382BBCCB34550| |634E523E09F9A4163D62A06B1DEA5A67ECB5469E4EF83B8F1C768C73C7E01BA6FF2| |DF88E997ECF9CA55FE1E2BD0ED722E71FEE61907CDCEC23DC31D68D93C26317D992| |3C6392AD9B1B6586A9FE41B6B522247BD1BF7785738EAE32C72F8297981397418AE| |D433E5F8AF34D539C00EB9C819FE41721BF1FCCC9EFE03766947C47701E234BC899| |65869799D30A980633CCC7B46B0CF58EA1FF991EC6ED539FB35707D51A44AD41FE2| |7943D8408A18FBC23F609FC0C7E41A4AF4C274599E213734CADF0E4848392DD4D7C| |8229934F847D9C119C781A279EF633B3C3CC18D510450DD12BDCD9DC55E6F96BE07| |5F006D322EF5974326B77D224791E51E6319B891288994D60965398ED005599C45C| |2451E532AAFC47552DA283C51EDB724F07C3144741350A666E947419E832D81F963| |BF7EB64DCA8EAD88906D3B7D067CDF469B27D9AD53ECD853ECDF66916BA7C7C8279| |B9736F05DF5B8FBF73335BBF06C82A755BFF9C6A64E90E09093AC7FBDC576A83BF1| |736994B5BCCDF7D51FE764779C5952C3C039F33975E822F98FB74950651D741977C| |1838BDB9FF015BF70C2D| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Quote:I am hoping to enjoy the gaussian proc a little.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Well, I play SR so I'm always either praying to the RNG or swearing at it. Anyway, beta is up, theory can wait. You really want to play around with Ki Push before someone realizes its probably a tiny bit bugged.
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Well with the patch notes for I24 it looks like the pseudopets are being corrected, which will take Ice out of the picture.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
This sounds like you're saying "meaningful" mez protection is up all the time protection, but I don't believe that to be true. Being able to break mez periodically or truncating a mez significantly with protection after the fact is extremely valuable to nearly all blaster players.
No not all the time, just something that is available enough that it prevents a good fraction of the time a blaster spends mezzed. Just using the water jet example the absolute fastest you could get mag 3 protection and assuming that the proc is one that will be increased 3.75 PPM and you get a full 40% chance to proc, you have a 6.4% chance to have mag 3 protection after 10 seconds (absolute best case) a 26% chance after 15 seconds. It gets better as you go out to the full 30 seconds. The problem with this is at any point along the chain if you get mezzed prior to having stacked sufficient protection your chance of getting it is 0.
I have been trying to decide where to put the proc and the best I could come up with is the t2 blast, or the t9 nukes. The fact that it is a full 30 seconds makes it more attractive and will certainly make blasters a little better to play but the AT will still be praying to the rng. -
Quote:The problem with relying on lucks to cover you is that you still need break frees.Originally Posted by Obitus
You can split the baby, I suppose -- grab up ~32% in DEF to multiple types and positions, and rely on Inspirations to cover the gap to the soft-cap. Or you could go the extra mile to soft-cap to Ranged AND S/L/E -- but I'm not sure the last option is worthwhile, not least because you then lose the stacking resistance from an Epic pool (because you're stuck with Scorpion Shield). Or at least I wasn't sure back when I made up that build. Maybe the sustain (and in the case of MA Blasters, the combat teleport attack) will change my opinion. -
Quote:Putting it in water jet means you have it in a power you can't use while mezzed. This is called defeating the purpose.Originally Posted by Hopeling
Yes, I know how the i24 proc changes work. I'm the guy who's been explaining them to everyone.
3 PPM now is 3.75 PPM under i24. With a 1.67s activation, and an 8s base recharge, you'd get a proc chance of:
3.75*(1.67+8/(1+.3))/60 = 49% with 30% recharge slotted (roughly a single SO's worth)
3.75*(1.67+8/(1+.6))/60 = 42% with 60% recharge slotted (a Decimation or Thunderstrike set)
3.75*(1.67+8/(1+.95))/60 = 36% with 95% recharge slotted (ED-capped)
3.75*(1.67+8/(1+1.3))/60 = 32% with 130% recharge slotted (ED-capped and Spiritual Core Paragon)
In the absolute worst case, you're looking at a 32% chance. With different slotting, or a different Alpha, it would be higher than that. So, as I said, ~40%. Faster attacks will of course have a lower chance, but you can use them more often.
Personally, I'm planning to put the proc in Water Jet, which should be even better with its longer recharge and instant refresh.
But lets look at your odds of getting meaningful mezz protection out of that. In any given 30 second window you have to stack 3 firings of the proc. Looking at a water blaster with a 150% global recharge and near ED limits for recharge water jet has a recharge time of 3 seconds a cast time of 1.5 seconds giving you 6 firings per window, and a max of 7 due to the lockout.
That gives you 7 opportunities to stack the proc 3 times. It really doesn't take much to understand that most of the time you aren't going to be protected. No mag 3 for you. What's more most of the time you are going to have to go a full 30 seconds or more before you can even hope to have your stack.
So when you attack that rikti spawn and you are bombarded with enough stuns to disorient an elephant, or you have multiple mezzing CoT mages, or malta, or Kinives, or even Freaks since they really needed those super stunners that proc is going to do you a world of good. -
Quote:Go back to your calculator 8s is the base recharge. and that is only for the longest recharging T2 blasts. Unless you go out of your way not to slot for recharge that will give you about a 22% chance.Originally Posted by Hopeling
The duration is 30 seconds, IIRC, and at 3 PPM, I'm calculating a proc chance of ~40% in an 8s-recharge t2 blast (under i24 rules, assuming normal-ish slotting). Higher than that, for the Superior version. Thank you for your good luck wishes, but I doubt they will be needed
You also get the added benefit of Spiritual and Agility alphas of reducing your chances to proc. -
Quote:For most blasters these changes are just going to move them from playing just A league ball to getting the occasional exhibition game in the AA leagues. The new proc is 3 ppm and "Short duration" the usuable while mezzed attacks have recharge times that will bring that down to 5%-15% chance good luck stacking that or even maintaining it. That leaves blasters the Popsicle stick bomb of ATs. It's compounded by the fact that most blasters will still have poor single target damage.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The single sustain power is just a piece of the puzzle, just like Dark Regen is just a piece of the puzzle. But if its possible to make the build work (I haven't actually tried to construct it yet), won't it be potentially very strong even compared to your Dark Armor brute? It won't exceed it, but won't it at least be playing in the same ballpark. And isn't that saying something amazing?
I am happy we are getting something but I nearly fell out of my chair when I looked at the I24 overview page and saw "Blaster Upgrades: Blasters receive a substantial increase to their damage and toughness." Half the changes are of more benefit to other ATs, 1 is equal value, and only 1 actually is a blaster only buff.
It's nice to get something but it would have been nice if the devs realized that there has been a real demand for a ranged damage dealer and the "GLASS CANNON" playstyle and deliver it, instead of promising it and giving people something else. -
Quote:Originally Posted by RaikenX
You're such a defeatist, AF.
Lol.
I prefer realist. There was a time when the fire epic was the no brainer for my blasters. RotP was like having a breakfree that cost you a chunk of debt to use.
Edit: Ice was the only other contender. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Not exactly. First of all even con Illusionists don't have a perma hold. To keep you held for a significant amount of time requires two illusionists to stagger their mezzes and also land all of them.
The hold is *barely* perma at +1, and Illusionists still don't always spam it fast enough. Two illusionists with synchronized Blind have only about a 60% chance of holding a blaster for three consecutive hold cycles (thirty seconds) assuming you don't do anything to disrupt their attack chain (like shoot at them) and their AI fires perfectly. At even con, the odds drop substantially because without overlap the mez isn't continuous: realistically it would only happen about 6% of the time.Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The thing is, who's going to jump from having a build that can barely take on x2 to attempting a x8 spawn? That would be nuts. What is true is that the sustain will take what you have now, whatever that is, and more or less double or triple its strength. If you can only take on x2 now, you might be able to take on x4 in I24 which is a huge difference. But if you can take on x5 or x6 now, you will have a shot at a x8 full spawn (the numbers scaling is not linear due to quadratic alpha damage). The presumption is that if you are at that level now, you must have some means of dealing with alphas now, and that will be amplified in I24.
I play with Rebirth now, and I can say with certainty that even the back half of the buff that will be comparable to the I24 buff makes a significant difference to survivability. The notion that most blaster deaths happen due to an instantaneous alpha burst is simply not true. Its incredibly rare. In fact, I've tested how long it takes critters to kill mezzed or undefended blasters quite a bit. Even three mezzing bosses combined can't kill a blaster in one mez duration generally.
I think I see where the conversation got derailed from here. What size spawns are we talking about for the extra regen to be significant ? Regen's benefit is inversely proportional to the spawn size. The more incoming dps the smaller the percentage is nullified by the tail end of rebirth.
That also begs the issue just how large a spawn should a non incarnate blaster be able to fight solo. I would be surprised for SOed blasters the changes let anyone add more than additional x1 or x2 to their difficulty. IOed blasters are anyones guess. -
Rise of the Phoenix makes */*/Fire perfectly viable for solo play. Slot for recharge.