Just to see if I understood i24 correctly...


Arcanaville

 

Posted

I'm working on my Ice/Ice Blaster. Now, I used to try and get as much defense into my builds as I could, because that was the only worthwhile mitigation I could get.

But if I read everything about i24 correctly (especially the various posts by Arcanaville) it would seem that resistance might be a more interesting goal now for an /Ice Blaster. So, I came up with a new build, based around
- the Elec APP for charged armor and Power Surge,
- Tough,
- no Weave, no Hover or Combat Jump,
- no Leadership,
- and the Medecine Pool.

Altogether I'm probably around 35% resist to S/L, 25% to E, the possibility to go to 75+ in those three and around 50 for everything else except Psi with Power Surge, and the Absorb shield to leverage as well. I'l be using Cardiac Core Paragon for Range, End red and Res boost. I got the Eye of the Magus Accolade for emergency def boosts and I'm planning on getting Watchman over the Invasion weekend.

Also, I admit I never took the time to understand Hybrid so far, so I'm kind of lost as to what branch might be more useful for this toon. He has damage AND control, so I get confused by the choices.

Any thoughts? Comments are very welcome


 

Posted

Until I see the changes on Live (or if I am lucky enough to get into test the changes on Beta) I'm not making any speculations on build changes.


@Deadboy

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netphenix5 View Post
I'm working on my Ice/Ice Blaster. Now, I used to try and get as much defense into my builds as I could, because that was the only worthwhile mitigation I could get.

But if I read everything about i24 correctly (especially the various posts by Arcanaville) it would seem that resistance might be a more interesting goal now for an /Ice Blaster.
Its not clear which goal is *better* in the general case, and high defense has secondary effect avoidance benefits that are separate from damage mitigation, but the thing to note, and the thing to specifically test for when this all goes beta, is this. Absorb is going to be a relatively fast ticking shield, about once every three seconds. Blasters with Absorb shields are going to get a lot of Absorb (almost twice the regen that the regen sustain blasters are getting) but Absorb is a use-it-or-lose-it effect that refreshes on each and every tick. The base tick will be about 5% health (subject to change during beta of course) enhanceable to 10%. So if you take less than 10% damage in three seconds, the extra absorb disappears and is refreshed back to full. Use it or lose it.

So think about what defense and resistance will do to your /Ice Blaster. Very high defense will make you get hit less often, but when you do get hit it will be for full damage. Resistance won't reduce how often you are hit, but will make every hit land for less. Spreading out the damage over time will make it hit more absorb ticks and use more of your absorb. Using more absorb is another way of saying you're taking less damage.

But that's comparing soft capped defense to a similar level of resistance, and you can't get a similar level of resistance usually. So whether soft-capped defense will still be ahead, or resistance plus absorb will equal or surpass soft-capped defense in at least some situations will require some field testing to determine with certainty (and this might be different for different players as well, who play differently and thus find themselves in different situations).


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Posted

Thanks for the reply, Arcana. It seems I did read correctly so far.

It's clear that without some hard number and real testing, deciding which goal is better is, at the present time, pretty much moot. But you'll notice I didn't mention aiming for a better goal, just a more interesting one.

I think we can agree that at the present time, soft capping a Blaster to anything else than S/L/E (with Scorpion Shield) requires some VERY hard choices, and pigeonholes you into some very specific builds. Not to mention that it forces you to run a bevy of toggles which will not only severely limit your recovery, but will require set up time after each mez that goes through. Of course, with high def those mez don't hit often, but when they do hit you're toast.

On the other hand, the absorb, while limited to 10% of your health every 3 seconds, stands against every and all damage type. It makes building for resistance much more palatable, where before there was no way to measurably add to the protection of Tough and the APP resist armors. So those powers will probably see much more use, and not having to take the def-enhancing pool powers will lend more flexibility to blaster builds.

In the case of my current planned build (and assuming values stay as planned), with Tough and Charged Armor fully enhanced I'd take only half of the S/L damage that gets past the absorb. Assuming a Cimeroran hacks me for half my health, I'd only take 20%. For Energy, I'd take about 28% of my health out of an attack meant to hit me for 50%. And when I'm running Power Surge, I'd take only 10% of my health on those attacks and about 20% for every other damage type except Psi. Of course, that's assuming the absorb gets to refresh, but still. That's pretty damn tough for the "King of Glass Cannons" Blaster archetype, wouldn't you say? Surviving alphas is gonna get easier. Not easy, of course, but much easier.

Also, there's no DDR available to Blasters anywhere, so even a measly Carnie Fencer with some luck can make all your careful defbuild-planning go *poof*. While resist shields, if I remember correctly, inherently resist debuffs by their base value. So while you get rebuffed, your resists almost never get floored.

Of course, they don't do squat against mezzing, so you could get slapped by an Illusionist anyhow. Pros and cons on both sides, but it definitely opens up options. And that's what I find interesting.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netphenix5 View Post
Also, there's no DDR available to Blasters anywhere
Ageless Radial would like to have a word with you.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netphenix5 View Post
Thanks for the reply, Arcana. It seems I did read correctly so far.

It's clear that without some hard number and real testing, deciding which goal is better is, at the present time, pretty much moot. But you'll notice I didn't mention aiming for a better goal, just a more interesting one.
Another interesting thing to consider. Separate from Frigid Embrace getting the sustain effects (absorb, +recovery) its radius is also supposed to increase in I24. From 10 feet to either 20 feet or 30 feet, I forget which. But you are going to be debuffing more things with it over a larger area, and Chilling Embrace includes -DMG. It'll degrade with the purple patch of course, but it will be another tool to lower incoming damage if your playstyle is conducive to bringing the targets into that larger radius.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
Ageless Radial would like to have a word with you.
Then it can talk to the 50 levels the game makes one go through BEFORE Incarnate stuff gets into the equation (to say nothing of the time required to get to T3 or T4, which for some is not inconsequential. ) I DO stand corrected that there is one (yay?) source of DDR for Blasters. Great, the pigeonhole got deeper...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcana
Another interesting thing to consider. Separate from Frigid Embrace getting the sustain effects (absorb, +recovery) its radius is also supposed to increase in I24. From 10 feet to either 20 feet or 30 feet, I forget which. But you are going to be debuffing more things with it over a larger area, and Chilling Embrace includes -DMG. It'll degrade with the purple patch of course, but it will be another tool to lower incoming damage if your playstyle is conducive to bringing the targets into that larger radius.
A very good point, which will also be a contribution to teams - the reverse equivalent of Assault ! Finally Blasters will get to contribute something beside pure damage. Wow, the mind boggle.

So, my Cimeroran buddy slashes me for 50% of my life bar. Chilling embrace drops that to 42,5%, its Absorb takes it to 32,5% and my S/L resist turns it into... Wow, just above 16% ! My Blaster goes from dead in two shots to dead in 7 - more than enough time to kill the Roman first. Well, ARREST the Roman, sorry...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netphenix5 View Post
So, my Cimeroran buddy slashes me for 50% of my life bar. Chilling embrace drops that to 42,5%, its Absorb takes it to 32,5% and my S/L resist turns it into... Wow, just above 16% ! My Blaster goes from dead in two shots to dead in 7 - more than enough time to kill the Roman first. Well, ARREST the Roman, sorry...
Resists take effect first, then the remainder deducts from Absorb until its gone, then the rest hits health. Its because resists reduce the damage that hits the absorb shieds that resistance synergizes well with Absorb. The object of the meta game for Absorb is try to keep the damage below Absorb's limit long enough for the next tick to refresh absorb back to full.

So if you have ~50% resistance in the situation above, its actually that the damage gets reduced from 42.5% to 21.25%, and then reduced to only 11.25% from the Absorb (and then the Absorb shield is gone until the next Absorb tick).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Resists take effect first, then the remainder deducts from Absorb until its gone, then the rest hits health. Its because resists reduce the damage that hits the absorb shieds that resistance synergizes well with Absorb. The object of the meta game for Absorb is try to keep the damage below Absorb's limit long enough for the next tick to refresh absorb back to full.

So if you have ~50% resistance in the situation above, its actually that the damage gets reduced from 42.5% to 21.25%, and then reduced to only 11.25% from the Absorb (and then the Absorb shield is gone until the next Absorb tick).
You need to stop giving me good news. I'm not used to it. This just gets better and better !