City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Perma-Snipe BR/EN

Another_Fan

By Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2012-07-16 14:02 in Blasters

 

Posted

I think tomorrow I'll put up a permasnipe Fire/Fire. There is so much whinging.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind View Post
I think tomorrow I'll put up a permasnipe Fire/Fire. There is so much whinging.
Permasnipe on a Fire/Fire ? Sadly it is not possible.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=291819

Yes you can begin to whine.

EDIT: Assuming your not trying to emulate what the OP posted as perma. As much as it could be theoretically perma there still is a good chance for human error. Thus defeating the whole Perma.

When I read perma I think along the lines of Device Perma. The only thing stopping me is the recharge of Snipe and nothing else.

1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Permasnipe on a Fire/Fire ? Sadly it is not possible.
He outlines how you can do it right there -- Tactics, Kismet, and IR Goggles.

Although just for Arcanaville's benefit, I was really tempted to post a build that consists of one snipe, Vengeance, Recall Friend, and whatever mandatory prerequisites there were to those things.

Quote:
Assuming your not trying to emulate what the OP posted as perma. As much as it could be theoretically perma there still is a good chance for human error. Thus defeating the whole Perma.

When I read perma I think along the lines of Device Perma. The only thing stopping me is the recharge of Snipe and nothing else.
Whoops! No such thing as perma, then -- you could accidentally fight something that debuffs your tohit and then you're SOL. Even Targeting Drone only gives you 55% resist to ToHit debuffs.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Permasnipe on a Fire/Fire ? Sadly it is not possible.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=291819

Yes you can begin to whine.

EDIT: Assuming your not trying to emulate what the OP posted as perma. As much as it could be theoretically perma there still is a good chance for human error. Thus defeating the whole Perma.

When I read perma I think along the lines of Device Perma. The only thing stopping me is the recharge of Snipe and nothing else.
I'm not sure what you mean by human error, but its theoretically possible to perma fast snipe with Fire/Fire. At level 50 anyway, and with a level of effort some might consider a bit overboard:

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Using Ageless Core Epiphany, my calculations say this is perma. Crazy, but perma.

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Posted

Bwahahahahahahaha. Thank you so much.

I need to go find Werner and tell him to make a MA scrapper with Storm Kick. It will be his favorite attack chain ever.

Edit : I realize I never said anything about your crawl. It was hilarious. This seems as good a place as any.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind View Post
Bwahahahahahahaha. Thank you so much.

I need to go find Werner and tell him to make a MA scrapper with Storm Kick. It will be his favorite attack chain ever.

Edit : I realize I never said anything about your crawl. It was hilarious. This seems as good a place as any.
I almost made a huge brain fart on that build. In constructing a perma BU-Aim cycle, I almost forgot to add the actual snipe to the build. Now that would have been hilarious.

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Posted

So here's Ar/Dark. Am I wrong for actually wanting to play this abomination?

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I almost made a huge brain fart on that build. In constructing a perma BU-Aim cycle, I almost forgot to add the actual snipe to the build. Now that would have been hilarious.
I'm ashamed to say I made this very mistake on the first draft of my I-24 Blaster build. But! I have an excuse; I hadn't used Mids in a few months. Yeah. That's the ticket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by human error, but its theoretically possible to perma fast snipe with Fire/Fire. At level 50 anyway, and with a level of effort some might consider a bit overboard:
What I mean by human error is the OP has that you can use one of those 3 powers every 10 seconds. So in theory if you double clicked one of those powers it would not be perma then.

Perma being short for Permanent means exactly that. If I need to click a power every 10 seconds as I play to have this possible new sniper effect it's really not perma to me. Available and accessible at all times yes.. But sorry to me its not perma.

I do agree that a debuff could make Device not perma either per say, but neither would it be perma for anything else which would be considered perma by some. Which ends up being a moot point.

At a minimum Device has the most idea perma situation then. End result I would do Device before I decided to click 3 powers every 10 seconds. I just cannot see someone doing that in game every 10 seconds

1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
What I mean by human error is the OP has that you can use one of those 3 powers every 10 seconds. So in theory if you double clicked one of those powers it would not be perma then.
Wait, what?


Quote:
Perma being short for Permanent means exactly that. If I need to click a power every 10 seconds as I play to have this possible new sniper effect it's really not perma to me. Available and accessible at all times yes.. But sorry to me its not perma.
By your definition, only toggles are perma. But that's a definition no one uses in discussions regarding perma-clicks. It would be misleading to use that definition without asserting it up front.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obitus View Post
I'm ashamed to say I made this very mistake on the first draft of my I-24 Blaster build. But! I have an excuse; I hadn't used Mids in a few months. Yeah. That's the ticket.
On a more serious note, this is what my current I24 prototype build looks like:

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If Energize is strong enough, I will likely pull slots from health and stamina and move them to maneuvers or maybe build up. Switching to adjusted targeting will squeeze out another 5% recharge, and since I19 I've been aiming for as much speed as I can get without too many compromises. Also, Power Blast is going to get the second set of blaster ATIOs.

I'm still debating certain things: this is just my current work in progress. In particular, I'm still thinking about procs. The FF procs are all in there by default: they stay in the AoEs, but I'm reconsidering the single target attacks.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Wait, what?
I'm pretty sure he means if you click two of the powers -- like say Aim and Build Up -- at the same time, you lose a few seconds of Snipe-ability. I'm not sure how that's much different than just randomly clicking off Targeting Drone, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
perma Perma Permanent perma not perma perma be perma perma perma
Fee fie fo furma, mee my mo murma, be bye bo burma, perrrrma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
ATIOs
waugh.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Wait, what?


By your definition, only toggles are perma. But that's a definition no one uses in discussions regarding perma-clicks. It would be misleading to use that definition without asserting it up front.
I'm pretty sure I defined it in my edit before your first post here, but I can understand if you didn't see it.

If you want to peddle that using temps and bending a build to use one single target attack at the cost of making sure you click x, or y or x,y and z before using that attack as good then by all means then the build is great.. This is a useless discussion and a circular debate at this point. Let us just agree to disagree.

1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
I'm pretty sure I defined it in my edit before your first post here, but I can understand if you didn't see it.

If you want to peddle that using temps and bending a build to use one single target attack at the cost of making sure you click x, or y or x,y and z before using that attack as good then by all means then the build is great.. This is a useless discussion and a circular debate at this point. Let us just agree to disagree.
Whatever else you're talking about, you're not talking about the build I posted.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind View Post
I'm pretty sure he means if you click two of the powers -- like say Aim and Build Up -- at the same time, you lose a few seconds of Snipe-ability. I'm not sure how that's much different than just randomly clicking off Targeting Drone, though.



Fee fie fo furma, mee my mo murma, be bye bo burma, perrrrma.



waugh.

Randomly clicking off Target drone ?

Why not just add in accidentally delete the toon or crash my computer.

Look if you think or want to believe that doing all of anything like is being posted is going to make your build better to have this "perma" snipe. Then by all means do so. But don't tinkle ( for a lack of better words ) on my leg and tell me its raining.

I don't have the energy or honest care to contend on a game forum what the true meaning of perma is. I will understand it to mean I think it means and you and yours can agree it means something different. I don't even care if I'm wrong.

Heck I will make it easy and say I was wrong and finish this right here. I have better things to deal with then pick phantom fights.

1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Why not just add in accidentally delete the toon or crash my computer.
Those would also prevent snipes from activating quickly.


Quote:
Look if you think or want to believe that doing all of anything like is being posted is going to make your build better to have this "perma" snipe. Then by all means do so. But don't tinkle ( for a lack of better words ) on my leg and tell me its raining.

I don't have the energy or honest care to contend on a game forum what the true meaning of perma is. I will understand it to mean I think it means and you and yours can agree it means something different. I don't even care if I'm wrong.

Heck I will make it easy and say I was wrong and finish this right here. I have better things to deal with then pick phantom fights.
I doubt it will be perma.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Whatever else you're talking about, you're not talking about the build I posted.
Your build is the sames as the OPs. Its not perma. It is readily available but not perma. If it where perma then you would not need to use anything before firing off snipe, EG as with Device build.

If you want to call needing to fire off Build up or Aim before using Snipe Perma then fine your perma then. I don't see it that way as do many others in the post I linked which you posted in as well. What your saying is similar to me saying I am defense capped because I am adding in my Hit debuff values. When we clearly know hit debuff does add up as if it where defenses for game reasons, but unlike true defense numbers from true defense powers hit debuffs can be resisted.

So in the end do we just say I am defense capped up until the debuff gets resisted then I'm not defense capped ?

Or we can analogize that I want to you standing a foot post on a corner of first and main because of drug activity going on in that area. But you decide to stand in a store because it starts to rain but still see the corner, thus your still on the foot post ? The answer is your not on your post. Your readily available to be on your post, Your monitoring your post. But at the end of the day your not on your post.

Thus we can say you have the ability to engage the new snipe ability but it is not readily available at will. The same as your foot post. You would need to step out of that store to be on your foot post. Which is the same as Clicking Build Up or Aim to have that snipe ability.

But as I said to another poster here.. If you think doing all of that is cool for one ST power, then by all means all the power to you.

I think if I did not assert before what my definition of perma is in my first post, then I made it clear here.

Regardless this is going to be circular and this does not matter to me beyond making clear what I was trying to express for the sake of doing so. I care not if someone wants to click 12 powers before using snipe if that is what makes it "perma" to them and / or happy. More power to you.

1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Thus we can say you have the ability to engage the new snipe ability but it is not readily available at will.
What I can say is the build I posted can achieve perma +22% tohit. Beyond that, I make no statement about whether you'll find it fun to play.


Quote:
But as I said to another poster here.. If you think doing all of that is cool for one ST power, then by all means all the power to you.
Did you even look at the build I posted? It makes zero sacrifices for the snipe, beyond actually finding room for the snipe. Here's what my live build looks like now:

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Compared to my current I23 build, my hypothetical I24 build is faster, deals more damage, and with Energize is more survivable than my I23 build. And that's if I don't use sniper blast at all. If I use sniper blast my single target chain will improve by about 15%. I will need to do nothing extra to get that extra damage that I don't basically do now. I won't need to change my playstyle in any radical fashion to get that extra damage from the snipe.

Everything my posted build does it does for overall improvements in performance, that the sniper blast is just a component of. Take the sniper blast away completely, and the build is still 100% viable: the changes would not have been for nothing. Its just a different way to build, that happens to be better for the snipe.

There's no ifs here. I don't think it works, I know it works. Because I already play something very similar.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Did you even look at the build I posted? It makes zero sacrifices for the snipe, beyond actually finding room for the snipe. Here's what my live build looks like now:

Compared to my current I23 build, my hypothetical I24 build is faster, deals more damage, and with Energize is more survivable than my I23 build. And that's if I don't use sniper blast at all. If I use sniper blast my single target chain will improve by about 15%. I will need to do nothing extra to get that extra damage that I don't basically do now. I won't need to change my playstyle in any radical fashion to get that extra damage from the snipe.
/Energy manipulation is indeed getting a monstrous boost from the I24 changes. As things stand the devs need to do more than they have mentioned for all the other secondaries or tone down the positives to EM.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
/Energy manipulation is indeed getting a monstrous boost from the I24 changes. As things stand the devs need to do more than they have mentioned for all the other secondaries or tone down the positives to EM.
I would need to see the numbers on Energize before making that statement. It does have a better path to perma fast snipe, but that's not a binary benefit: having it 80% of the time is not far worse than having it 100% of the time.

The unknown to me is how Energy will compare to Ice. Ice is getting the absorb toggle. One thing to note is that because Absorb is considered an effect that is not as reliable as regen, Absorb toggles will be stronger than regen toggles numerically. While the regen toggles (and energize, more or less, will likely get close to this level with SO recharge slotting - the advantage comes from higher recharge) are designed to deliver about 1%/sec of regen and be half-enhanceable (to 1.5%/sec regen - about +360% regen) Absorb toggles are according to Arbiter Hawk going to be 1.67%/sec absorb and fully enhanceable (to 3.33%/sec absorb - that's a whopping 800% regen if you could use it all efficiently, which is a tricky thing to do).

A min/maxer who stacks a lot of resistance on /Ice to improve the efficiency of the Absorb ticks could end up much more survivable than /Energy even at high recharge. I can guestimate the difference, but it'll take in-game testing to be certain how that all shakes out.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I would need to see the numbers on Energize before making that statement. It does have a better path to perma fast snipe, but that's not a binary benefit: having it 80% of the time is not far worse than having it 100% of the time.

The unknown to me is how Energy will compare to Ice. Ice is getting the absorb toggle. One thing to note is that because Absorb is considered an effect that is not as reliable as regen, Absorb toggles will be stronger than regen toggles numerically. While the regen toggles (and energize, more or less, will likely get close to this level with SO recharge slotting - the advantage comes from higher recharge) are designed to deliver about 1%/sec of regen and be half-enhanceable (to 1.5%/sec regen - about +360% regen) Absorb toggles are according to Arbiter Hawk going to be 1.67%/sec absorb and fully enhanceable (to 3.33%/sec absorb - that's a whopping 800% regen if you could use it all efficiently, which is a tricky thing to do).

A min/maxer who stacks a lot of resistance on /Ice to improve the efficiency of the Absorb ticks could end up much more survivable than /Energy even at high recharge. I can guestimate the difference, but it'll take in-game testing to be certain how that all shakes out.
I have had the same thoughts on my Dark/Ice blaster, but I couldn't describe it as accurately as you have. The Dark primary has a self-heal, and the -ToHit, ranged Def, Ice slows, and Tough/Dark Embrace are very helpful in survivability. I was actually thinking of dropping Chilling Embrace, since it is a melee range power, until I read about these changes.

Now, I have to figure out where to get extra slots for CE and fit in the new, crashless nuke and slots for it as well. I might even pick up Ice Patch again if he will be in melee range more. I think it's actually a good problem to have.

Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster. -seebs, "How to Suck at CoH/CoV" Guide