A Small "Guide" to Removing Redraw Time
By
Patient_V,
Posted on: 2012-07-03 15:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Problem is according to Arcanatime queuing powers yields more DPS due to how server calculates attacks. This was one reason why fast animating attacks aren't as good as we thought.
Essentially your method stops queuing which will lower your dps.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
Problem is according to Arcanatime queuing powers yields more DPS due to how server calculates attacks. This was one reason why fast animating attacks aren't as good as we thought.
Essentially your method stops queuing which will lower your dps. |
I will admit to only having discovered this odd quirk of redraw recently (so I haven't discovered all its potential advantages and disadvantages yet). However, it is possible to have an attack queued up as long as the attack power is activated before the animation of the weapon-sheathing power is finished.
From what I understand, an activated power will have the blue light circling the power icon for the duration of its cast time while the queued attack will have four red arcs around the power icon. That queued attack should activate with little to no delay as the next in line.
If I can hit a weapon sheathing power and unselect my target, hit a targeted weapon power (likely the one I intend to fire off), then hit the weapon power I intend to fire off, all within the time that the blue light is circling (indicating that the animation of the previous power is still continuing), I will successfully queue my weapon attack (I will see the red arcs around the power icon). I'm usually able to force the instant redraw and queue my weapon attack within 0.5 seconds, meaning that if I pop a fast sheathing attack like Ball Lightning (around a 1 second animation), I'm able to spend about half a second with my weapon power waiting in queue.
To get a really great and easy look at how you can queue a weapon attack after using instant redraw, use a weapon sheathing power with a long animation time such as Aid Self. With it's incredibly long animation time, you have around 4.5 seconds to deselect your target, then double-tap any targeted weapon attack power as long as you're standing next to an enemy within melee range.
Without the insta-redraw, casting Aid Self and queuing a weapon attack will cause Aid Self to finish its 4.5 second animation, the rooting redraw animation to occur, then the attack will activate. You can tell the redraw time has occured because the blue circling light around the power icon will be out of sync with the attack animation time (the power begins recharging before the attack animation even finishes).
With insta-redraw, casting Aid Self, unselecting your target, and double tapping a weapon attack will cause your weapon to appear in your hand while the Aid Self animation is playing. This may have unintended consequences with animation as Aid Self's animation was not meant to be played with a weapon in the character's hand (such as my brute skewering his own arm and face with his katana). In this instance, we can actually see the weapon instantly appear during the animation of the previous power, which technically occurs with all other weapon sheathing powers but may not be as visible.
In any case, unless the player fails to queue any weapon attack during Aid Self's 4.5 second animation, redraw is skipped entirely because there's no need for it; the weapon is already drawn and ready in the player's hand. Aid self's animation is so long that I can actually switch from queueing Golden Dragonfly to Flashing Steel to The Lotus Drops if I'm feeling particularly indecisive. Whichever weapon power is in the queue by the end of Aid Self's animation will fire off without any redraw time.
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I regularly use a bind that targets an enemy and follows them, and I usually queue my attacks as I'm approaching an enemy and this didn't sound right to me, so I tested just now.|
Originally Posted by Shensu
I'll begin with a description of how redraw behaves based on whether an enemy is selected or not.
When an enemy is selected and your weapon is sheathed, activating a weapon attack power will play a rooting redraw animation, then the actual attack animation. Nothing can interrupt this redraw animation time. When there is no enemy selected and your weapon is sheathed, clicking on a targeted weapon attack power (i.e., Snap Shot or Gambler's Cut) will play the redraw animation, but this animation doesn't root you. In fact, if you're moving as you click on a targeted weapon attack power with no enemy selected, the weapon will instantly appear in your hand. |
I hit Esc twice, to make sure my weapon was sheathed, found a group of enemies, positioned myself about a block away, and hit my "Target and Follow" button. Once I was moving, I hit an attack. On pressing the attack button, I got the "Out of Range" popup. Once the popup vanished (about a half second later), my weapon appeared in my hand, with no rooting or redraw. When I got to the enemy, the queued attack fired, with no delay, just as it should.
I haven't tested extensively, but whether or not you have anything targeted should have no bearing whatsoever on redraw.
@Roderick
Quote:
Thanks for taking the time to test this |
Originally Posted by Roderick
I regularly use a bind that targets an enemy and follows them, and I usually queue my attacks as I'm approaching an enemy and this didn't sound right to me, so I tested just now.
I hit Esc twice, to make sure my weapon was sheathed, found a group of enemies, positioned myself about a block away, and hit my "Target and Follow" button. Once I was moving, I hit an attack. On pressing the attack button, I got the "Out of Range" popup. Once the popup vanished (about a half second later), my weapon appeared in my hand, with no rooting or redraw. When I got to the enemy, the queued attack fired, with no delay, just as it should. I haven't tested extensively, but whether or not you have anything targeted should have no bearing whatsoever on redraw. |
. I've realized that this process can be understood better through visuals, so I'm currently uploading a quick 30 second video to Youtube to demonstrate what I'm seeing when I use this method.The key thing to execute this method is not to manually target your enemy prior to activating (or queuing) your attack power (the target must also be in range, which depends on the weapon attack power).
If you're pressing the attack button and getting an "Out of Range" popup, you have an enemy selected. You must not have an enemy selected to take advantage of insta-redraw. Otherwise, the weapon will simply be redrawn, even when in range of the enemy.
Instead, what I recommend is standing right next to an enemy (the training dummies in the Rikti Warzone are ideal as they are neither dangerous nor fragile), have your weapon sheathed and no enemy selected at all, and simply spam a targeted weapon attack power like Golden Dragonfly. The first click of the attack power will automatically select the nearest enemy for you (this is where it simultaneously instantly redraws your weapon); the second click will activate the attack power, which should activate without you experiencing any redraw time, even if the redraw animation briefly tries to play.
It's not actually necessary to spam (two clicks or keystrokes will do the job), but the key thing is to perform the automatic targeting and activation of the power in as brief a time as possible. You go from not targeting the enemy at all to targeting it and striking it in two clicks or two keystrokes.
In the video currently uploading (88 minutes left), I take advantage of this by alternating Boxing and other sheathing powers with weapon powers to display what is possible when unselecting the target and using the method I've described. The redraw animation tends to bleed into the animation of the sheathing powers, creating some strange looking animations at times, but the animation time (from subtracting redraw time) is undeniably faster.
Quote:
Except... I had an enemy targeted, and got instant redraw.|
Originally Posted by Shensu
If you're pressing the attack button and getting an "Out of Range" popup, you have an enemy selected. You must not have an enemy selected to take advantage of insta-redraw. Otherwise, the weapon will simply be redrawn, even when in range of the enemy.
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The way it actually works is this: If you do something that causes you to draw a weapon, but aren't actually attacking (enemy blocked, out of range, etc), then the weapon is put into your hand without rooting. If you aren't currently doing any other animations, the weapon draw animation plays, otherwise, the weapon just appears. If the attack is valid at the moment you press the button, then you root and play the weapon draw animation before attacking.
You aren't actually speeding anything up, and as Ultimus said, you're probably slowing down your attack chain and lowering your DPS.
@Roderick
Video Link!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6Uay...ature=youtu.be
The first seven seconds of the video demonstrate weapon attacks with
normal redraw for comparison. If you watch the power icons, you'll notice that Golden Dragonfly and Divine Avalanche both begin recharging before their animations are complete. Such is not the case when I start using insta-redraw attacks; the power icons will start recharging exactly when their animations complete.
Watching the video, there a couple of important things to note. First off, you'll notice that I'm quickly unselecting and targeting the practice dummy after each sheathing attack. I'm not pressing tab or clicking on my target, I'm simply pressing any weapon attack power once to automatically retarget the closest enemy.
Secondly, if you watch my character's left hand during the insta-redraw attacks, the katana instantly appears during the animation of the weapon-sheathing power. This is impossible using normal redraw and demonstrates that the weapon is drawn and ready before the weapon-sheathing power even finishes animating.
Because the character is standing still, the redraw animation still attempts to play. Nonetheless, it's the non-rooting version of the redraw animation that can be interrupted by movement or any power the player chooses to activate, so even if we see the redraw animation for the briefest of moments, it is usually interrupted, bleeds into the sheathing power's animation, or bleeds into the weapon attack animation.
In the video, I activate Power Sink before I activate Soaring Dragon. Here, we can see the sword appear in my hand before Power Sink finishes animating and the redraw animation actually plays during the cast time of Power Sink (which is 2.244 seconds). The animation is long enough to actually let the entire redraw animation complete, even though no extra time is devoted to redraw. It's during long animation sheathing powers like these that we can easily see the weapon power can bequeued and the weapon instantly appears; the redraw animation time is entirely bypassed and the weapon power is immediately launched after the completion of the sheathing power. This is even more evident when using insta-redraw with a power like Aid Self (which has a 4.488 second animation time).
Queuing weapon attack powers after fast animating sheathing powers like Boxing, Ball Lightning, and Electric Fences is more difficult, but even if not executed perfectly, I'm still able to animate my powers faster than if I had let the redraw occur. In the video, I'm able to execute most of my weapon attacks quickly enough that they spend a very brief time in the queue, ensuring they animate immediately after the sheathing power is complete.
#
While I have no plans to use Boxing in my attack chain in the near future, I'm glad I had it for demonstration purposes . If I can seamlessly integrate sheathing powers like Boxing into my weapon attack chains, I can easily include more useful powers like Gloom. If a player only used insta-redraw for heal powers like those found in Regeneration, they would need to micro-manage even less.
I won't lie and say that constantly managing redraw in that video was easy, but with a little practice and the proper keybinds, it isn't overly difficult either. I have unselect bound to '`', use powers in power tray one with 1 through 0, powers in power tray two with lshift+1 through lshift+0, and powers in power tray three with lctrl+1 through lctrl+0, which is why my cursor never moves in the video.
Because everyone has their own preferences for how they activate powers, how difficult executing insta-redraw is can vary from person to person.
Insta-redraw apparently removes all rooting associated with the sheathing power! Normally, Power Sink roots me to one place for the full duration of its animation (2.244 seconds). However, performing insta-redraw and choosing NOT to fire of an attack power allows me to move earlier than that.
I can use this to remove the rooting in Titan Weapon's long momentum building windup animations if I use a different weapon power.
New Video Link!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7Q3g...ature=youtu.be
The video shows me activating Arc of Destruction (2.904 animation time w/o momentum), then insta-drawing my Blackwand vet power to cancel the root. I can move around freely, though I have to wait for the animation time to finish before being able to use another power. I then demonstrate the process using Rend Armor once Momentum wears off. Needless to say, it looks weird to see the attack effects without the actual animation.
While the benefit of insta-redraw is apparent, the ability to cancel rooting can vastly increase mobility when using powers with long activation times. I've heard some people complain that long animations like those in Shadow Maul (and I suppose any Titan Weapon momentum builder) can get them killed. At least with insta-redraw (available to anyone with access to a vet weapon power), those long animation times can be made non-rooting so the character can run away.
I'll likely use it just to maintain mobility when herding a few enemies together on my Titan Weapons brute (or escaping a near death situation if caught in a long animation). I can tag one small enemy group with a Defensive Sweep quickly and move on my merry way to the next enemy group without waiting for the full 2.5 seconds for Defensive Sweep to animate.
Quote:
That's actually true and something I hadn't discovered.|
Originally Posted by Roderick
Except... I had an enemy targeted, and got instant redraw.
The way it actually works is this: If you do something that causes you to draw a weapon, but aren't actually attacking (enemy blocked, out of range, etc), then the weapon is put into your hand without rooting. If you aren't currently doing any other animations, the weapon draw animation plays, otherwise, the weapon just appears. If the attack is valid at the moment you press the button, then you root and play the weapon draw animation before attacking. |
With my weapon sheathed and out of range of my target, when I target an enemy and queue a weapon attack, I experience the instant redraw when I get the "Out of Range" message. I would probably get the same effect with the "Target Blocked" if I were experimenting on my Soldier of Arachnos with the rifle attacks. This relates to what I was referring to.
What I'm trying to communicate is that this is the exact same instant redraw one experiences when one targets an enemy by only clicking on a targeted weapon attack power (I've recently added a video link to the top of the thread that demonstrates what I've been talking about at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6Uay...ature=youtu.be).
With my weapon sheathed, I stand in melee range to my enemy with nothing targeted, I only click on Divine Avalanche once and the game does two things automatically for me. It gives me the non-rooting instant redraw and it targets my enemy simultaneously. I am in range of my enemy and my target is not blocked.
Because the non-rooting instant redraw allows me to activate any power during its animation, I simply hit Divine Avalanche in the middle (more like the beginning) of its animation. Divine Avalanche executes immediately. There is no rooting redraw animation because my weapon has already been instantly redrawn from the act of targeting my enemy through the first time I clicked on Divine Avalanche. I can do this any time my weapon is put away (as shown in video). Doing this actually can cancel the root of the animation of any powers activated previous to it (as shown in the second video at the top).
Thanks for being patient with this. It's not an easy concept for me to convey in words.
Created a new video featuring a Bane Spider Soldier of Arachnos using both mace and rifle attacks!
http://youtu.be/M3ydCzcYa7A
I'm able to remove all redraw time from alternating rifle and mace attacks. Definitely whackier looking than the katana brute given that I'm insta-redrawing with every attack rather than every other.
After these experiments, I think I've given myself the option to remove all redraw time on my weapon characters if I'm willing to micro-manage my powers. It's become much easier now that I've had a little practice. I'm pretty happy with that
Nice job writing this out it was fun to watch you work through it. A few quick notes on the topic.
Not all weapon sets were created equal: while you can circumvent the redraw and rooting for many powers, rooting is firmly in place for others. The Dual Pistols power set is by far the worst offender, but there are others out there with key powers that root the character model. (On the flip side, you can cancel some weapon-based powers with other powers in the same set.)
Its worth noting that non-weapon sets can make just as much use from this as weapon-based sets by using temporary powers like the St. Louis Slugger. Canceling lengthy animations like Thunder Strike or Energy Transfer wont impact your DPS in a direct sense, but it allows the player to reposition quicker than he otherwise would have been able to (to line up a cone, close distance with a different mob, etc.). It also allows you to play more aggressively in PBAoE-heavy environments like the iTrial AV fights by removing much of the risk from powers with lengthy cast times, and letting characters with important PBAoE abilities (Poison Trap) to get in and out significantly faster.
The trick falters a little bit in environments where temporary powers arent permitted. You used to be able to get the draw animation to play regardless of whether or not the temporary power was clickable; unfortunately, this is no longer the case. Something changed in I19 or I20, and as far as I know, the only non-Paragon Market weapon-based temporary power currently available in iTrials is the Dimensional Grounding Ray from the Dr. Kahn Task Force.
PenanceжTriage
Quote:
Thanks!|
Originally Posted by Patient_V
Nice job writing this out it was fun to watch you work through it. A few quick notes on the topic.
Not all weapon sets were created equal: while you can circumvent the redraw and rooting for many powers, rooting is firmly in place for others. The Dual Pistols power set is by far the worst offender, but there are others out there with key powers that root the character model. (On the flip side, you can cancel some weapon-based powers with other powers in the same set.) Its worth noting that non-weapon sets can make just as much use from this as weapon-based sets by using temporary powers like the St. Louis Slugger. Canceling lengthy animations like Thunder Strike or Energy Transfer wont impact your DPS in a direct sense, but it allows the player to reposition quicker than he otherwise would have been able to (to line up a cone, close distance with a different mob, etc.). It also allows you to play more aggressively in PBAoE-heavy environments like the iTrial AV fights by removing much of the risk from powers with lengthy cast times, and letting characters with important PBAoE abilities (Poison Trap) to get in and out significantly faster. The trick falters a little bit in environments where temporary powers arent permitted. You used to be able to get the draw animation to play regardless of whether or not the temporary power was clickable; unfortunately, this is no longer the case. Something changed in I19 or I20, and as far as I know, the only non-Paragon Market weapon-based temporary power currently available in iTrials is the Dimensional Grounding Ray from the Dr. Kahn Task Force. |
I wish I had more high-leveled weapon-based characters at my disposal so I could test this method with them all and see the results. I would have never guessed that dual pistols would have animation quirks that prevent insta-redraw from working with it. However, if anyone wants to share any of their own tests and experiences in minimizing or removing redraw, I'd love to put them in the original post.
I have to say that discovering how to bypass long rooting animations was a really pleasant surprise. Characters with veteran powers like the Blackwand, Nemesis Staff, and Ghost Slaying Axe could easily take advantage while other characters without access to those could take advantage of the many weapon temporary powers gained through running normal story arcs. As you've mentioned, as more and more itrials begin to use mechanics that reward high mobility, cancelling rooting can become a valuable tactic that keeps people on their toes (and alive).
On my archery/mental manipulation blaster (currently on SOs), this has been a boon when activating long animation powers like Psychic Scream given that sitting in one location too long is a frequent cause of death for him. No redraw time when chaining bow and psi attacks is the icing on the cake.
Updated Video Links!
I've developed a method to remove redraw time.
The following are short videos that demonstrate its use with a Bane Spider SOA with mace and rifle attacks and a Katana/Electric Armor/Mu Brute using katana attacks with weapon sheathing powers like Ball Lightning and Power Sink.
Zero Redraw Time Katana/ELA/Mu Brute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6Uay...ature=youtu.be
Zero Redraw Time SOA Bane Spider using Rifle/Mace attacks
http://youtu.be/M3ydCzcYa7A
This method also allows you to cancel rooting on long-animating powers. The following video shows a Titan Weapons/Electric Armor brute moving while activating non-momentum Arc of Destruction and non-momentum Rend Armor.
Non-rooting Titan Weapons Arc of Destruction/Rend Armor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7Q3g...ature=youtu.be
The posts throughout the thread describe how the method (sometimes referred to as insta-redraw or insta-draw for brevity) is executed.
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A Small "Guide" to Removing Redraw Time
*Two types of Redraws*
I'll begin with a description of how redraw behaves based on whether an enemy is selected or not.
The First type: When an enemy is selected and your weapon is sheathed, activating a weapon attack power will play a rooting redraw animation, then the actual attack animation. Nothing can interrupt this redraw animation time.
The Second Type (Insta-redraw): When there is no enemy selected and your weapon is sheathed, clicking on a targeted weapon attack power (i.e., Snap Shot or Gambler's Cut) will play the redraw animation, but this animation doesn't root you. In fact, if you're moving as you click on a targeted weapon attack power with no enemy selected, the weapon will instantly appear in your hand. Even if the redraw animation plays, the weapon is considered to have been instantly drawn; as the animation plays, you can move around and activate any power you desire. This second type of redraw can be seen when: clicking an attack power when no enemy is selected, having an enemy selected and activating a weapon attack power when the enemy is either blocked or out of range (thank you Roderick for pointing out the cases of having an enemy blocked or out of range). Only the first case is useful to us if we plan on hitting the enemy.
*Targeting the Enemy*
When clicking on a targeted weapon attack power without a target selected, you also select the nearest enemy target on top of instantly drawing your weapon as described above. When having your weapon sheathed, you do NOT want to have your enemy selected if you want to force the second type of redraw. Let the game target the nearest enemy for you when you click on the targeted weapon power.
To see this in action, you can stand in melee range of an enemy without having it selected. With your weapon sheathed, simply spam any targeted weapon power and you can notice that the enemy will be automatically selected and the time dedicated to redraw is skipped almost entirely as the attack animates. If the redraw animation even plays, it will be interrupted by the attack animation. You will attack in as much time as if you already had your weapon drawn.
*Using Insta-redraw in Mid-Combat*
While it takes some micromanagement, using these redraw-free attack animations can be used in mid-combat. I'll use an example from my Katana/Electric Armor Brute:
I Activate Golden Dragonfly -> I Activate Power Sink (my weapon is sheathed) -> The moment I hit Power Sink, I hit escape to unselect my target -> I click on Soaring Dragon (Nearest enemy is targetted and weapon is instantly drawn) -> I click on Soaring Dragon again and Soaring Dragon activates without any redraw time
The timeframe in which I hit escape and click on Soaring Dragon twice is during the animation time of Power Sink (so approximately 2.25 seconds).
If the power that forces the weapon to sheathe has a longer animation, it is easier to queue the next attack so that it executes as if redraw never occurred. This may look like a lot of work to avoid approximately half a second of redraw animation, but I use my keyboard to activate my powers and have bound "unselect" to my '`' key, so the above chain I described can end up being input as this:
2,4,`,3,3
As opposed to just letting the redraw animation occur with this:
2,4,3
*What about PBAOE weapon powers that have no target?*
This does not work with PBAOE weapon powers, but redraw can still be circumvented with PBAOE's if you simply deselect your target, click on a targeted weapon power only once, then immediately activate the PBAOE power. Once again, this is very easy to achieve when activating weapon-sheathing powers with longer animations (such as Power Sink) when compared to those with shorter animations (such as Ball Lightning). The timeframe in which one needs to deselect and click on a targeted weapon power, then activate any weapon power, is only as long as the animation time of the weapon-sheathing power (so generally 1-3 seconds).
*What are the disadvantages?*
This method has the unfortunate effect of being inaccurate when targeting specific enemies as it will always target the nearest enemy. While you can choose specific enemies (such as a boss to land your Golden Dragonfly on instead of a near dead minion) by deselecting, clicking on a targeted weapon power (auto-targets nearest enemy), clicking on the enemy of your choice, then activating Golden Dragonfly, this can end up being a lot to do in the span of 1 second if executed after launching a Ball Lightning or Gloom. However, if there's is only one strong enemy left and you've just hit Reconstruction, Healing Flames, or Energize, skipping the redraw time is as easy as deselecting with 'Esc' (or in my case, '`') and spamming the desired weapon attack power.
This method can take a little practice and, for many players, it may not be worth the effort. However, on my Katana/ELA/Mu brute, it is a rather interesting experience to execute chains of powers that freely mix Divine Avalanche, Electric Fences, Golden Dragonfly, Energize, Soaring Dragon, Ball Lightning, Power Sink, and Gambler's Cut without experiencing a single second of redraw. I've tested this method on my Bane SOA using rifle and mace attacks and my Archery/Mental blaster and found that it works there as well.
Thanks for reading!