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When you get deep into the maths I get a bit lost, but what you are talking about seems to be ED (Softcap tends to be associated with defence) and everything seems to be correct from what I can see.|
Originally Posted by Shockwave007
Soft Capping Example: Appocalypse
Being a new player, I wanted to chack to see if I'm understanding how soft capping works on abilities, and thought using appocalypse as an example would work well. I'm assuming a 6 slot set in a single power, with no other powers or set bonues in use. Please let me know if my math is flawed due to misunderstanding part of it. Damage: Appocalypse has 4 individual damage bonuses of 53%, 33.1%, 33.1%, and 26.5% Total: 145.7% With Soft Cap Adjustment: 101.9% Recharge: Appocalypse has 3 individual damage bonuses of 33.1%, 33.1%, and 26.5% Total: 92.7% With Soft Cap Adjustment: 89.9% Accuracy Appocalypse has 3 individual damage bonuses of 33.1% and 26.5% Total: 59.6% With Soft Cap Adjustment: 59.6% (No capping blow 70) Endurance Appocalypse has 1 individual damage bonus of 33.1% Total: 33.1% With Soft Cap Adjustment: 33.1% (No capping blow 70) Then when the set bonuses are applied: 4% damage - for this ability it would actually become a .6% bonus since we are already in the .15 multiplier range. Total damage bonus = 102.5% 10% recharge - Would actually become a 5.5% bonus since the ability would get into the top threshhold putting some of it at the .7 multipler, and part at .15. Totall Recharge Bonus = 95.4% None of the other set abilities would have capping issues in this example. Bonus question: With all of the capping issues, is it worth slotting all 6 of a set in an ability most of the time? Seems the issue would compound with more set bonuses applied where you aren't getting full value. (I realize this still comes out better than SO's, but there seems to be a lot of diminishing returns.) |
As for your last question: It depends. I tend to 5 slot the purple sets, and value the proc over the pure damage IO in most cases. But sometimes if you don't need more recharge in a power you can drop the dam/rech for the dam, or drop the acc/rech. Slotting all 6 however does I believe give you a good bonus when you exemp down past a certain level (Something like <24 iirc).
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
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You're confusing a few terms, and set bonuses don't work that way.
Each IO provides enhancement value. These values are affected by enhancement diversification (which you are calling soft capping), and only apply to the power they are slotted in.
The set applies extra bonuses when pieces are slotted together. These bonuses are not affected by enhancement diversification, and apply to all of your powers.
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Quote:
FYI, you're talking about ED (Enhancement Diversification). This was put in place to stop people from just 6 slotting damage into one power.|
Originally Posted by Shockwave007
Damage:
Appocalypse has 4 individual damage bonuses of 53%, 33.1%, 33.1%, and 26.5% Total: 145.7% With Soft Cap Adjustment: 101.9% Recharge: Appocalypse has 3 individual damage bonuses of 33.1%, 33.1%, and 26.5% Total: 92.7% With Soft Cap Adjustment: 89.9% Then when the set bonuses are applied: 4% damage - for this ability it would actually become a .6% bonus since we are already in the .15 multiplier range. Total damage bonus = 102.5% 10% recharge - Would actually become a 5.5% bonus since the ability would get into the top threshhold putting some of it at the .7 multipler, and part at .15. Totall Recharge Bonus = 95.4% Bonus question: With all of the capping issues, is it worth slotting all 6 of a set in an ability most of the time? Seems the issue would compound with more set bonuses applied where you aren't getting full value. (I realize this still comes out better than SO's, but there seems to be a lot of diminishing returns.) |
The set bonuses apply outside of your normal enhancement slotting. In addition, your set bonuses apply to your character, not just that power. So all of your powers would have +4% damage and +10% rechange, and not impacted by ED.
So your damage would go from 101.9 to 105.9%, and your recharge would go from 89.9 to 99.9%. The main thing about set bonuses is that it affects more than just that power, so you can build your character as a whole much stronger, not just that one power.
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| Bonus question: With all of the capping issues, is it worth slotting all 6 of a set in an ability most of the time? Seems the issue would compound with more set bonuses applied where you aren't getting full value. (I realize this still comes out better than SO's, but there seems to be a lot of diminishing returns.) |
Hope that helps.
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Enhancement diversification is what I meant. Thanks to everyone who corrected the terminology. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
You're confusing a few terms, and set bonuses don't work that way.
Each IO provides enhancement value. These values are affected by enhancement diversification (which you are calling soft capping), and only apply to the power they are slotted in. The set applies extra bonuses when pieces are slotted together. These bonuses are not affected by enhancement diversification, and apply to all of your powers. |
Set bonuses not being subject to enhancement diversification was one of the big things I couldn't find one way or the other, so thanks for that. That eliminates the diminishing returns I was concerned about with having multiple sets in place each causing Enhancement Diversification reductions on each other.
I am still trying to get my head around soft capping defense as well, although that's not applicable here.
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You can often find answers at the ParagonWiki. For example, searching on Set bonuses pulls up Invention Origin Enhancement Set Bonuses and one of the first few paragraphs says "Enhancement Diversification does not apply to special benefits or set bonuses. "|
Originally Posted by Shockwave007
Set bonuses not being subject to enhancement diversification was one of the big things I couldn't find one way or the other, so thanks for that.
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| That eliminates the diminishing returns I was concerned about with having multiple sets in place each causing Enhancement Diversification reductions on each other. |
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As an aside, I think ED should be reexamined with regards to sets (notably purple quality) that get nothing by 6-slotting over 5-slotting except for the 6-slot bonus.
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They do get a bonus to the way they exemp, which is one of the big draws* to purple sets.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
As an aside, I think ED should be reexamined with regards to sets (notably purple quality) that get nothing by 6-slotting over 5-slotting except for the 6-slot bonus.
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I think.
*The planned draws anyway, I don't know how many people even know what % they will get out of each power when they exemp.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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No, these are treated the same as any other set with regards to enhancement scaling while exemplaring. The draw is that the set bonuses do not ever disappear.
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Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
They do get a bonus to the way they exemp, which is one of the big draws* to purple sets.
I think. *The planned draws anyway, I don't know how many people even know what % they will get out of each power when they exemp. |
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Quote:
It's a double thing. The set bonuses, and the fact that the enhancement bonuses are larger therefore more of the bonus gets by the exemplar scaling.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
No, these are treated the same as any other set with regards to enhancement scaling while exemplaring. The draw is that the set bonuses do not ever disappear.
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They use the same formula for scaling, but exemplar scaling is applied before ED. So when you slot a full purple set, you have 145.75% damage enhancement before ED, which will leave you ED-capped on damage as far down as level 24, and below that still provides significantly more than if you had slotted only ~100% pre-ED.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
No, these are treated the same as any other set with regards to enhancement scaling while exemplaring. The draw is that the set bonuses do not ever disappear.
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Like PrincessDarkstar, I'm not sure how many people value that effect enough to spend a slot and a couple hundred million inf on it, though...
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Easy way to find out|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
They do get a bonus to the way they exemp, which is one of the big draws* to purple sets.
I think. *The planned draws anyway, I don't know how many people even know what % they will get out of each power when they exemp. |
Incidentally, they don't lose their set bonuses when they exemp. Other than that, they are treated exactly the same as all other IOs, and even regular enhancements.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
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I can see slotting for exemplaring purposes as important to pvpers, but for pve content it doesn't seem to be worth much worry. I ran that content on the way up without uber enhancements, why would I need them to rerun it?
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Like PrincessDarkstar, I'm not sure how many people value that effect enough to spend a slot and a couple hundred million inf on it, though...
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_________
@Inquisitor
Dunno, but I've seen a fair number of people who prefer to build with level 33 enhancements (or whatever other number they decide is the optimal balance between enhancement value and exemplar usability), even for a level 50 respec build. So there are definitely people who value better exemplaring. I'm not sure how many do so in this specific way, is all.
Soft Capping Example: Appocalypse
Being a new player, I wanted to chack to see if I'm understanding how soft capping works on abilities, and thought using appocalypse as an example would work well. I'm assuming a 6 slot set in a single power, with no other powers or set bonues in use. Please let me know if my math is flawed due to misunderstanding part of it.
Damage:
Appocalypse has 4 individual damage bonuses of 53%, 33.1%, 33.1%, and 26.5%
Total: 145.7%
With Soft Cap Adjustment: 101.9%
Recharge:
Appocalypse has 3 individual damage bonuses of 33.1%, 33.1%, and 26.5%
Total: 92.7%
With Soft Cap Adjustment: 89.9%
Accuracy
Appocalypse has 3 individual damage bonuses of 33.1% and 26.5%
Total: 59.6%
With Soft Cap Adjustment: 59.6% (No capping blow 70)
Endurance
Appocalypse has 1 individual damage bonus of 33.1%
Total: 33.1%
With Soft Cap Adjustment: 33.1% (No capping blow 70)
Then when the set bonuses are applied:
4% damage - for this ability it would actually become a .6% bonus since we are already in the .15 multiplier range. Total damage bonus = 102.5%
10% recharge - Would actually become a 5.5% bonus since the ability would get into the top threshhold putting some of it at the .7 multipler, and part at .15. Totall Recharge Bonus = 95.4%
None of the other set abilities would have capping issues in this example.
Bonus question: With all of the capping issues, is it worth slotting all 6 of a set in an ability most of the time? Seems the issue would compound with more set bonuses applied where you aren't getting full value. (I realize this still comes out better than SO's, but there seems to be a lot of diminishing returns.)