Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
![]() ...With ED capped damage and a purple proc in each plus t4 interface the DPA is higher on r strike, g bolt and g blast than it is on I Strike. There's no reason to ever use I Strike over any of those 3 attacks if you want high end DPS on your Peacebringer.
|
Peacebringer single-target?
This is the best chain, period. Why are you looking at DPS of single attacks? Why are you writing pages of useless crap without even giving total DPS numbers for the chains you're posting? Why do you think this:
Is better than Bolt?Blast>R Strike? |
Example (relevant part bolded):
Basic High-Recharge Rotation
Gleaming Bolt -> Gleaming Blast -> Radiant Strike
Time: 4.286
Total Damage: 192.3 / 576.9 / 769.2
DPS: 44.87 / 134.60 / 179.47
Procs: 2x Superior, 16.49
Interface: 21.38
Hybrid: 33.43
30% -Resistance Total: 143.46 / 254.29 / 309.7
The animation on I Strike is way too long to be used in a high DPS chain. With ED capped damage and a purple proc in each plus t4 interface the DPA is higher on r strike, g bolt and g blast than it is on I Strike. There's no reason to ever use I Strike over any of those 3 attacks if you want high end DPS on your Peacebringer. |
Provided you accept the math that Rakeeb has used to arrive at the dps of the various chains, those numbers would appear to disagree with your opinion.
Do you have numbers that show that the bolt-blast-strike chain can exceed 200 dps, or are you calling shenanigans on the 200 dps figure for the chain that includes Incandescent Strike?
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Well you can't put a Purple Proc in both Blast & Bolt, can you? In any case, I'm not enough of a math wiz to know who's right. If IS is not useful for high end DPS, is it worth slotting at all, in your opinion (other than as a mule)?
|
Keep in mind the shorter cast times also mean fitting in more attacks. With Apoc in g bolt using an alternative slotting for g blast, i strike's DPA goes slightly higher than blast. That in and of itself isn't conclusive though, since bolt and blast combined have a shorter cast time than I strike. So not only are bolt and blast beating I Strike on DPA by themselves with purple procs (they each fall behind by about 6 pts when you sub in a toxic damage proc) but you can use them both in the time it takes to use i strike. By the time you finish casting both blasts, r strike is up on a high end build and that beats everything by a longshot.
And yea I guess there's a point in using I Strike as a hold if you have the slots for it and don't mind the animation time. It's also nice for exemping and good burst damage for one shotting LT's in the lower levels. It's just not good for sustained DPS situations, ie AV fights and the like.
Rakeeb did put the total dps - on the third line right underneath total damage.
snip Provided you accept the math that Rakeeb has used to arrive at the dps of the various chains, those numbers would appear to disagree with your opinion. |
Do you have numbers that show that the bolt-blast-strike chain can exceed 200 dps, or are you calling shenanigans on the 200 dps figure for the chain that includes Incandescent Strike? |
Take a look yourself if you want.
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;835;348;696;HEX;|
|78DAA590DF4A025110C6E7E8AEA66DE13FA28BEA262B3313A 5EEA39242B0127A005|
|9E35807B6153CABD4652FD43BF416BD84D56D449C66CF19C4 38DD3570F6637E33F3|
|ED30170F2DEFF9FCE90858E134F0A5EC75B97FC3FB2311DEF 251FAD28FC6233F803|
|8D2F8B6E6ABBDABC18087524C78BD33BE17E1702C7B27E811 957F75B5B8D5758CA6|
|90EF0E8741BD1D4E84147D1188E871499333717B17E1A8475 9147229174D12C4355|
|8C54D2AF83E5DA0502ED412004D0712FBA475A34E83F405B5 E840AA69F2693CCBF4|
|2C03850159FDFD7209A327DB4DEADE54D5E8428D741DB4664 93DF28E0DD4371AB86|
|4E06E9B9F793B46972BA455A3B93DD27983BF82A500F2649A DF345B14CAA4B44589|
|4C4A94AFB48DB9FA6FAC39B3338339D58626F19994AA58D5A A333B21304D1A16695|
|AE4C0228716E958A46B914C0E206988BAC66A86AA195D9D66 91B079F26E91378B7C|
|58E4B588B73544FD00A1C50E64|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Just the basic math shows 156.29 for bolt>blast>r strike and 144.67 for i strike>rstrike>bolt>blast. This is only with the slotting above and t4 reactive for both chains, not factoring in -res which in my opinion, those procs would be doing more on my chain since more frequent attacks (no waiting on i strike animation) means more chances for the proc to trigger. I haven't tested that though, just a hunch.
Both chains would obviously be higher when you factor in Inner Light, Hybrid, Assault and Musculature.
Edit: also Microcosm mentioned earlier in the thread that you can proc the hell out of bolt for even better results. I haven't personally ever done that but it makes sense.. Still even with just one dmg and one -res proc per attack the bolt>blast>rstrike chain is noticeably better as you can see above in this post.
Guess I missed it, I had to tldr most of his posts and skim for relevant information since he talks so much.
Take a look yourself if you want. | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;835;348;696;HEX;| |78DAA590DF4A025110C6E7E8AEA66DE13FA28BEA262B3313A 5EEA39242B0127A005| |9E35807B6153CABD4652FD43BF416BD84D56D449C66CF19C4 38DD3570F6637E33F3| |ED30170F2DEFF9FCE90858E134F0A5EC75B97FC3FB2311DEF 251FAD28FC6233F803| |8D2F8B6E6ABBDABC18087524C78BD33BE17E1702C7B27E811 957F75B5B8D5758CA6| |90EF0E8741BD1D4E84147D1188E871499333717B17E1A8475 9147229174D12C4355| |8C54D2AF83E5DA0502ED412004D0712FBA475A34E83F405B5 E840AA69F2693CCBF4| |2C03850159FDFD7209A327DB4DEADE54D5E8428D741DB4664 93DF28E0DD4371AB86| |4E06E9B9F793B46972BA455A3B93DD27983BF82A500F2649A DF345B14CAA4B44589| |4C4A94AFB48DB9FA6FAC39B3338339D58626F19994AA58D5A A333B21304D1A16695| |AE4C0228716E958A46B914C0E206988BAC66A86AA195D9D66 91B079F26E91378B7C| |58E4B588B73544FD00A1C50E64| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| Just the basic math shows 156.29 for bolt>blast>r strike and 144.67 for i strike>rstrike>bolt>blast. This is only with the slotting above and t4 reactive for both chains, not factoring in -res which in my opinion, those procs would be doing more on my chain since more frequent attacks (no waiting on i strike animation) means more chances for the proc to trigger. I haven't tested that though, just a hunch. Both chains would obviously be higher when you factor in Inner Light, Hybrid, Assault and Musculature. Edit: also Microcosm mentioned earlier in the thread that you can proc the hell out of bolt for even better results. I haven't personally ever done that but it makes sense.. Still even with just one dmg and one -res proc per attack the bolt>blast>rstrike chain is noticeably better as you can see above in this post. |
Rakeeb, you might want to show how you arrived at that number for the IS chain.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Sure, absolutely.
The full chain for the IS rotation is IS--> RS --> GBolt --> GBlast --> RS --> IS ... basically IS's animation is so long that you can get Radiant Strike recharged in the middle of it.
Here's the breakdown I posted in my chart:
IS High-Recharge Rotation (Modified)
Incandescent Strike -> Radiant Strike -> Gleaming Bolt -> Gleaming Blast -> Radiant Strike
Time: 9.038
Total Damage: 453.23 / 1359.69 / 1812.92
DPS: 50.15 / 150.44 / 200.59
Procs: 4x Superior, 15.73
Interface: 16.96
Hybrid: 42.19
30% -Resistance Total: 154.41 / 278.27 / 340.21
Now, what does all this mean? Well, what I did was I took the base numbers for damage and time, and that's what you see up there right away - Time is the real world time required to make this happen, based on ArcanaTime, and Total Damage is 100% / 300% / 400% hacks at what you're looking at in terms of what you do for damage based purely on the power itself. So that 453.23 number is the baseline damage that these powers do with no Damage slotting at all at level 50 when used in this order. Then I multiplied that number by 300% and 400% respectively to get enhanced and enhanced/Cosmic Balance numbers.
To get DPS on the power damage, I divided the damage by the time it took to do that damage. Not a huge jump.
Procs, Interface, and Hybrid were all built by looking at what they do over that 9 second period. So in that 9 seconds, you have 4 chances to proc superior IOs (once from IS, twice from RS, and once from either GBolt / GBlast - I'd recommend it goes in GBolt). Over the long term you can average out a proc's damage contribution by dividing its damage by its chance to activate, and once I got the average contribution number (which for Superior IO's is 35.34), it was just a case of figuring how how that mattered in terms of DPS. Interface and Hybrid were easier... their formulas are right there on Mids if you need 'em, and RedTomax broke it out in his database parses. I tend to do my own math so I used the raw formulae rather than relying 100% on Mids.
So then, once you have the power's damage number, and the "unusual stuff" number (procs, interface, Hybrid) you simply add 'em together, multiply them by 1.3 to show Achilles' Heel and Reactive debuffs, and then multiply the final number by 0.95 to show chance to miss.
It's a fairly long process but we're not talking abstract analysis here, so it should be easy enough to figure out.
Two-Headed Boy, if you don't want to read the whole thing, that's totally up to you - but I would wager that you'll miss something vital in the doing.
EDIT: It looks like the issue is how Mids calculates Interface procs, which is inaccurate. They're building it as if each proc has a 75% chance to fire all 5 tics, but it doesn't work that way - it's a 75% chance per tick to fire the DOT, and thusly each tick can be the last, so it's less and less likely that you'll see the whole thing. You don't have to believe me, try it out for yourself.
Thb is right, i just haven't had the time to check this. Hopefully ill get to it this weekend but somewhere along the line there is an error.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Thb is right, i just haven't had the time to check this. Hopefully ill get to it this weekend but somewhere along the line there is an error.
|
EDIT: THB, I pulled your build up - you forgot to include Assault Radial Embodiment or Musculature Core Paragon in there. Put those in, crank the nice new Cosmic Balance slider up a bit, and you may be surprised at what you see.
If Mids isn't calculating Interface correctly this would be the first I've heard of it. I suggest you PM Codewalker about whatever discrepancy you're finding and post the results.
I would think that by now people would know better than to argue with Microcosm. >.>
I do my own research - build the numbers and then try things out in-game - so I'm typically confident in my conclusions. I'm not particularly worried about other voices/opinions unless they bring up important information, such as Micro pointing out that the game needed a full server tick to finish resolving a power before enabling the execution of the next one.
EDIT: The project was more a labor of love than anything else, says so right in the introduction, so unless anyone else has anything meaningful to add I'll probably move on.
Well, I appreciate the labor of love.
I'll likely keep my RS/GBst/GBlt chain for Hard Targets. It seems close enough to the IS chain either way that there's little point in quibbling over it.
I will probably put IS back in my build when the next set of ATOs comes out. I'll give up Pulsar with Absolute Amazement slotted; no biggie, almost never use it and the Set Bonuses are pretty much a Wash, plus I want the Heal and that little bit of S/L Resist the new Kheld Set provides, then I can lose Shining Shield and still be 85% resist to everything - love Perma Lightform
I do my own research - build the numbers and then try things out in-game - so I'm typically confident in my conclusions. I'm not particularly worried about other voices/opinions unless they bring up important information, such as Micro pointing out that the game needed a full server tick to finish resolving a power before enabling the execution of the next one.
EDIT: The project was more a labor of love than anything else, says so right in the introduction, so unless anyone else has anything meaningful to add I'll probably move on. |
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Speaking of which, I still haven't gotten around to checking this. I've been a bad Micro
![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
It's true. He does.
It's why we all love Microcosm.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Usually I would say good on you, but I'm pretty sure that there are laws against disagreeing with Microcosm about math. Not just regular laws, scientific laws.
![]() |
Rakeeb has brought up that interface might have been changed regarding its cancel-on-hit behavior, which could seriously alter the damage it does per proc. Will be checking this out.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Hah :P hardly.
Rakeeb has brought up that interface might have been changed regarding its cancel-on-hit behavior, which could seriously alter the damage it does per proc. Will be checking this out. |
EDIT: i24 appears to be changing things significantly. While I have refined my kit, to include examination of the new Proc IO numbers, I will not be posting any numbers until the i24 numbers drop. Mids' new CancelOnMiss #'s go along with my own, so the numbers post is current as of i23 and will remain so by all expectations.