A (Quick) Local Guide to Electric Control
By
Alef_infinity,
Posted on: 2012-04-12 24:19 in Player Guides
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That's a nice strategy tip. I can see that working very well solo or on a small team.|
Originally Posted by parabola_EU
Something that I've found with Jolting Chain that I don't think has been mentioned is that it's a great spawn pulling power. Assuming you hit the first target it will ripple through the spawn aggroing everyone without allowing return fire (you only need to be able to see the first target). Given a corner or even just sufficient room to run backwards you can then run the group into the sleep patch in relative safety.
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Electric control has lots of great control options . . . provided you have time to use them. Several of the powers take a little while to obtain a full benefit, so they are less effective on large, fast moving teams.
The chain powers take a while to chain through groups. Synaptic Overload's chaining confuse takes a while, and on fast teams I found that I was often running ahead of the team just to have a chance to use it. It is a great control power if given the time. Jolting Chain also has some nice uses . . . given the time to use it. And you have suggested a good one.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I'll offer my own commentary on Elec/Kin, having played it to 47. Super fun, but depending on the situation really survivable or really squishy. Anything that negates your controls really guts your survivability, and Kin doesn't provide a whole lot to back that up. But with your controls working, it's pretty good.
I'd actually recommend building for defense over recharge on the combo. Electric Control doesn't need recharge nearly as much as most control sets, and Kin provides plenty. Just take Hasten, Siphon Speed, and a bit of global speed (less than for many other Controller builds). The rest can be mostly focused on defense. With a good defensive build, you can afford to be more reckless (and get detoggled less often, too). You don't necessarily need defense if you play carefully, though, and the combo will perform decently on SOs, I'm sure. Just mind yourself more and remember your breakfrees.
I enjoy running right in as a Kin, and Conductive Aura meshes nicely. Arctic Air would probably be better, but Ice Control provides fewer alpha-breakers than Electric. Transference can help drain that single boss more rapidly on top of Conductive Aura.
Static Field is nice because Kin powers don't wake up sleeping foes so you can buff up more safely. Aggro-free confusion is nice, toss it in often before starting, then sleep and kin up. Those two are definitely my staple controls.
Jolting Chain, well, I still keep it around and use it when everything else fails, and it's nice for that. But I barely managed to keep it in my build. Kin isn't exactly one of those secondaries with long leisurely stretches of time to use 2 sec animating powers that buy you only a few seconds of safety. It could really use an animation time cut.
Gremlins, I'm honestly a bit "eh" on. The free jolting chains (that don't cost you precious animation seconds but on the flipside can't be timed for just when you need it) and some additional damge is alright, but they die pretty easily. I've spent fair stretches of time with them gone and barely noticed the absence.
As for damage, I mostly count Fulcrum Shift as my main damage contribution to teams and leave it at that. It's not like it's a trival contribution. It's likely far more than a high damaging control primary with a secondary that gives less damage buffs would contribute.
EDIT: For clarification, I usually play on teams.
I would have to disagree with the assessment of Electric as low damage. With two pets, its AoE immobilize, and Jolting Chain it has nice potential for AoE damage that some of the truly low damage sets (Earth and Ice) do not. You can even toss some confuse damage in their from Synaptic Overload. The difference becomes more pronounced when you reach Incarnate powers. Interface procs, and now Double Hit from the Assault Hybrid and Waylay from the Control Hybrid, make Electric Cages and Jolting Chain more effective damage tools.
What Electric control is really lacking at is single target damage due to its slow activations. In discussions of Controller damage this distinction is rarely made.
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I described it as a low damage set because the damage done by the set's actual powers is very low. I was not taking into account possible builds such as damage and debuff procs, differing secondaries or certainly not Incarnate content (especially since this was written before I-23 and the Hybrid Slot).|
Originally Posted by ketch
I would have to disagree with the assessment of Electric as low damage. With two pets, its AoE immobilize, and Jolting Chain it has nice potential for AoE damage that some of the truly low damage sets (Earth and Ice) do not. You can even toss some confuse damage in their from Synaptic Overload. The difference becomes more pronounced when you reach Incarnate powers. Interface procs, and now Double Hit from the Assault Hybrid and Waylay from the Control Hybrid, make Electric Cages and Jolting Chain more effective damage tools.
What Electric control is really lacking at is single target damage due to its slow activations. In discussions of Controller damage this distinction is rarely made. |
If you are taking all those other sources of damage into account, it really varies depending upon your build. Each of the sets have a lot of places that damage procs can be slipped in. That may reduce the effectiveness of the control that the set can do. For example, if you use damage procs in Synaptic Overload, you will destroy the "no aggro" part of the power.
I would consider Ice to be the lowest damage set, but with all of the Slow in almost every power, you could slot an Impeded Swiftness proc all over the place. Ice also gets the benefit of Confuse, but could take the confuse damage procs.
Earth does more damage because of Rocky, but it has a lot of powers than can take procs, too. Six of the nine powers are AoE, and every power other than Salt Crystals can take damage procs. (In comparison, Electric has 3 powers that can't or shouldn't take damage procs -- Conductive Aura, Gremlins and Synaptic Overload. And I'm not sure you would want to put a damage proc in Static Field. Plus, while Paralyzing Blast takes Hold sets, Volcanic Gasses takes Targetted AoE and Hold sets.)
I continue to assert that Electric is probably the second lowest damage control set behind Ice. You could certainly buff up the damage in many ways, but this guide was intended to be in introduction to Electric Control for people who weren't familiar with it or haven't researched the mechanics of the set. I don't really consider folks who are all the way into their Incarnate slots with T3s and T4s -- those folks probably already know plenty about their builds.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Even putting aside consideration for proc damage and Interface, the damage done by Electric's powers does not differ from the majority of control sets. Its immobilizes and holds deal the same amount of damage as those found in Gravity, Earth, or Ice. However, it adds a second AoE damage option in Jolting Chain. While other sets have some down time between castings of their AoE immobilize, Electric can, with sufficient recharge, seamlessly chain Electric Cages and Jolting Chain for AoE damage. Similarly, if you look at the pets available, Animated Stone does deal better single target damage (and no AoE damage) but the Gremlins offer AoE damage via their own Jolting Chain and their damage aura. It's dubious to state that Animated Stone pushes Earth above Electric in damage.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
I described it as a low damage set because the damage done by the set's actual powers is very low. I was not taking into account possible builds such as damage and debuff procs, differing secondaries or certainly not Incarnate content (especially since this was written before I-23 and the Hybrid Slot).
If you are taking all those other sources of damage into account, it really varies depending upon your build. Each of the sets have a lot of places that damage procs can be slipped in. That may reduce the effectiveness of the control that the set can do. For example, if you use damage procs in Synaptic Overload, you will destroy the "no aggro" part of the power. I would consider Ice to be the lowest damage set, but with all of the Slow in almost every power, you could slot an Impeded Swiftness proc all over the place. Ice also gets the benefit of Confuse, but could take the confuse damage procs. Earth does more damage because of Rocky, but it has a lot of powers than can take procs, too. Six of the nine powers are AoE, and every power other than Salt Crystals can take damage procs. (In comparison, Electric has 3 powers that can't or shouldn't take damage procs -- Conductive Aura, Gremlins and Synaptic Overload. And I'm not sure you would want to put a damage proc in Static Field. Plus, while Paralyzing Blast takes Hold sets, Volcanic Gasses takes Targetted AoE and Hold sets.) I continue to assert that Electric is probably the second lowest damage control set behind Ice. You could certainly buff up the damage in many ways, but this guide was intended to be in introduction to Electric Control for people who weren't familiar with it or haven't researched the mechanics of the set. I don't really consider folks who are all the way into their Incarnate slots with T3s and T4s -- those folks probably already know plenty about their builds. |
I think there has been a long established mindset that all control sets are either low or high damage, and many fail to distinguish between high AoE damage and high single target damage. That's the crux of my argument. If we were to compare Gravity and Electric, Gravity certainly deals better single target damage but it does not have comparative AoE damage tools.
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My opinion on damage levels was, to a large part, based upon my personal experience playing the sets. I have found Electric to be a low damage set only a little bit better than Ice and less than Earth. I find that I complete missions faster on my Earth controllers than on my Electric Controller because the Earth Controller takes foes down faster.|
Originally Posted by ketch
Even putting aside consideration for proc damage and Interface, the damage done by Electric's powers does not differ from the majority of control sets. Its immobilizes and holds deal the same amount of damage as those found in Gravity, Earth, or Ice. However, it adds a second AoE damage option in Jolting Chain. While other sets have some down time between castings of their AoE immobilize, Electric can, with sufficient recharge, seamlessly chain Electric Cages and Jolting Chain for AoE damage. Similarly, if you look at the pets available, Animated Stone does deal better single target damage (and no AoE damage) but the Gremlins offer AoE damage via their own Jolting Chain and their damage aura. It's dubious to state that Animated Stone pushes Earth above Electric in damage.
I think there has been a long established mindset that all control sets are either low or high damage, and many fail to distinguish between high AoE damage and high single target damage. That's the crux of my argument. If we were to compare Gravity and Electric, Gravity certainly deals better single target damage but it does not have comparative AoE damage tools. |
I'll give you the point that if you had high recharge, and were up against large groups of mostly minions and lieutenants who are grouped together, that by spamming Cages and Jolting you could do some AoE damage -- Maybe more than most other control sets (not Fire or Plant). I've tried it and it works to chip away the health of a larger group. But that's kind of a limited situation. There are many times that I had to deal with tougher single targets or targets who were spread out, so that single target damage becomes very important. It takes a LONG time to take down tough single foes with that attack chain.
Earth has a little bit of AoE damage in both Stalagmites and Volcanic Gasses, but you can't cast them nearly as often as Jolting Chain. I said that Rocky makes a huge difference for Earth because not only does he have very good single target damage, but his ability to tank and survive lets him keep doing damage long after the Gremlins have been smashed into little pools of conductive jelly. Overall, I found that this allowed my Earth controllers to handle standard missions more quickly than my Electric Controller while leveling up. Maybe the Electric was slightly better before pets, but not after.
As for Gravity, I mostly solo'ed my Grav/Storm. Gravity is admittedly weak on AoE, but strong on single target damage. Again, the pet's survivability makes a huge difference, as Singularity is very hard to kill by anything other than an AV. Singy doesn't do as much damage as Rocky, though. Instead, Gravity has a lot of single target damage in the other powers. Again, I found that I completed missions faster on my Gravity controller than on my Electric controller solo, and Gravity also contributed more damage to teams.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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My opinion was similarly formed through experience with the sets and yet I've arrived at the opposite conclusion. I'm sure playstyle and secondary pairings certainly make a contribution to the difference in perception here, which is why I feel a more detailed analysis and opposing viewpoint are warranted.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
My opinion on damage levels was, to a large part, based upon my personal experience playing the sets. I have found Electric to be a low damage set only a little bit better than Ice and less than Earth. I find that I complete missions faster on my Earth controllers than on my Electric Controller because the Earth Controller takes foes down faster.
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| I'll give you the point that if you had high recharge, and were up against large groups of mostly minions and lieutenants who are grouped together, that by spamming Cages and Jolting you could do some AoE damage -- Maybe more than most other control sets (not Fire or Plant). I've tried it and it works to chip away the health of a larger group. But that's kind of a limited situation. |
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| There are many times that I had to deal with tougher single targets or targets who were spread out, so that single target damage becomes very important. It takes a LONG time to take down tough single foes with that attack chain. |
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Earth has a little bit of AoE damage in both Stalagmites and Volcanic Gasses, but you can't cast them nearly as often as Jolting Chain. I said that Rocky makes a huge difference for Earth because not only does he have very good single target damage, but his ability to tank and survive lets him keep doing damage long after the Gremlins have been smashed into little pools of conductive jelly. Overall, I found that this allowed my Earth controllers to handle standard missions more quickly than my Electric Controller while leveling up. Maybe the Electric was slightly better before pets, but not after. As for Gravity, I mostly solo'ed my Grav/Storm. Gravity is admittedly weak on AoE, but strong on single target damage. Again, the pet's survivability makes a huge difference, as Singularity is very hard to kill by anything other than an AV. Singy doesn't do as much damage as Rocky, though. Instead, Gravity has a lot of single target damage in the other powers. Again, I found that I completed missions faster on my Gravity controller than on my Electric controller solo, and Gravity also contributed more damage to teams. |
At any rate, I think I may look into collecting some data on how much damage pets are contributing. I know this was done some time ago, but it seems like a topic worth revisiting given the introduction of new control sets and changes to Singularity.
This is turning into a debate-type discussion -- which is fine for most forums but really doesn't belong in the Guide section. As I said in an earlier post, the purpose of this Guide was to introduce folks who weren't familiar with Electric Control to the basics of the powerset and throw out a few tips and suggestions. It is not intended to be the place for a detailed discussion of damage mechanics. If we really want a back-n-forth discussion on how many controller pets can fit on the head of a pin, we should probably take it to the Controller forums. Which I'm happy to do -- I like these kinds of discussions (even though I'm too lazy to do the testing myself).
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I would guess that the Overwhelming Force Proc would be a nice addition to chain fences. Your foes would be KB'ing all over the place.
Does anyone have any EC builds to throw out? I'm specifically looking to slot up my EC/Kin Troller which is tons of fun to play but I'm a bit all over the place build wise. Ta!
| dave | onion | @davejb |
Something that I've found with Jolting Chain that I don't think has been mentioned is that it's a great spawn pulling power. Assuming you hit the first target it will ripple through the spawn aggroing everyone without allowing return fire (you only need to be able to see the first target). Given a corner or even just sufficient room to run backwards you can then run the group into the sleep patch in relative safety.