DB & Elec Melee with SR or Ice? (CE question also)
ice IMO is worlds better than SR, it has a heal an end drain a good tier 9, and slow immunity (slow immunity is better than 20% rech bonus)
the only real hole that ice armor has is psi dmg and its DDR isnt as strong as SR
My elec/ice is fast approaching 50 and has been one of my most enjoyable characters in quite some time. I skipped CE without a second thought: it's an endurance drain for dubious benefit. It made more sense when my plan was KM/ice, but in retrospect switching to elec was a good call as the single target is fantastic now anyway and the aoe is superior. I'd also agree that elec/ice and db/sr are easier themes to deal with.
So one vote for "SR sucks" and one vote for "my Elec/Ice rocks" basically. 
But if I am going to make 2 stalkers, which pair is the better pair?
Thanks,
Lewis
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Ice for both. And CE is a big survival boost, especially helpful because it will work against psi foes.
If you must use sr, db/sr and elec/ice, as extra recharge will help you get closer to the db top chain.
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I have an Elec/SR stalker. The pros, like the others mentioned, is that you can easily softcap him to defenses and divert all other bonuses to recharge or something else that you deem fit. The problem that most have been citing is that he cannot sustain himself. Well...enter Hibernate. Pop it, remerge with full health and cooldowns, fun starts again. Debuffers giving you a headache? Hibernate. Want to herd? Hibernate. Would you like your kids to school by themselves and leave you alone for the rest of the day to play CoX? Hibernate :P. Here, this is the build i'm done halfway through. The problem which i am currently experiencing is the fact that almost all powers share the 5%/6.25% recharge bonus, so it's very hard if not impossible to go above the perma haste cap without investing in purple or pvp sets. An agility alpha is always a good option too, but in this case i'd throw my money on Musculature. End wise, i believe the 2.2 end/s is enough, but YMMV.
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Thanks for the extra replies, I appreciate them!
Lewis
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Quote:
I'm quite familiar with /SR not so much with /Ice. Couple thoughts about /SR|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
ice IMO is worlds better than SR, it has a heal an end drain a good tier 9, and slow immunity (slow immunity is better than 20% rech bonus)
the only real hole that ice armor has is psi dmg and its DDR isnt as strong as SR |
Quickness is both a +20% recharge bonus and 40% resistance to Res(SpeedRunning, RechargeTime, SpeedFlying) for 10.25s
Ice's slow immunity does require one taking 3 separate powers Wet Ice (60%), Permafrost(20%) and Energy Absorption(20%) and adds Jump Speed and Height resists to the mix.
It's also possible if truly concerned about slow/-recharge to add Winter's Gift (20%) and use set bonuses to add more. It would take a pretty extreme situation to really slow either set down much. My own /SR scrapper(s) have rarely found -slow to be an issue.
How much DDR does /Ice have? I'm seeing around 42%. How much, if any, is enhanceable (appears not to be enhanceable)?
And lastly /SR also has the scaling damage resistance of it's passive defenses. Outside of Cold resistance not seeing much in the way of other damage resistances in /Ice.
Doomguide
Edit: just a note that the quote in my post is more a jumping off point for my thoughts than any disagreement with Necrotech_Masters post ... I'm not really familiar enough with /Ice, particularly on Stalkers, to have a strong opinion about one vs the other set.
Edit2: I have seen an Elec/SR Stalker in action with a build quite capable leading the team's alpha strikes into spawns ... LR + Thunderstrike is a nasty combo.
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Well the difference between 40% and 100% slow resistance is enormous in those cases where it will actually matter, though 40% is good enough for most slows. With Ice, you are going to take all those powers (except maybe Permafrost) anyway.|
Originally Posted by Charlotta Fireheart
I'm quite familiar with /SR not so much with /Ice. Couple thoughts about /SR
Quickness is both a +20% recharge bonus and 40% resistance to Res(SpeedRunning, RechargeTime, SpeedFlying) for 10.25s Ice's slow immunity does require one taking 3 separate powers Wet Ice (60%), Permafrost(20%) and Energy Absorption(20%) and adds Jump Speed and Height resists to the mix. |
Quote:
| How much DDR does /Ice have? I'm seeing around 42%. How much, if any, is enhanceable (appears not to be enhanceable)? |
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| And lastly /SR also has the scaling damage resistance of it's passive defenses. Outside of Cold resistance not seeing much in the way of other damage resistances in /Ice. |
With ice you also have the ability to easily cap your hit points, drain your enemies' endurance, and apply a constant slow/-damage debuff. The set just offers an enormous variety of mitigation. Once you hit the softcap to at least s/l, mitigation variety is king.
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Yeah, well, you can't perma it and it lasts only for half a minute, which is ideal only for tough nut situations. Granted, it has no crash and gives superior resistances, but still...im not seeing any decent +def on /ice. You know, /ice is like the middle way between a defense and a resistance set, decent on both sides, but master of none. If i wanted to run a set with resistances, elec seems much better. Recharge, mezzes, a heal, resistances, drain end and pretty much everything else /ice offers except the mediocre s/l/e/n defenses and the slow/damage debuff.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
The stalker version of /ice gets Icy Bastion as a tier 9, which with proper slotting will cap most of your resistances. It also gives a tremendous amount of +regen.
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I didn't find it very challenging to softcap s/l/e/n while still getting 112.5% global recharge on my hasten-less elec/ice. Cheap, not exactly! Easy enough, though. The upshot is that I can run CB-JL-AS-CI or CB-JL-CB-AS-CI depending on my mood, icy bastion is at something like 30% uptime, hoarfrost means I am permanently at the HP cap, and EA is easily double stacked which is usually not quite enough to incarnate softcap but it at least helps. The only down side to this character is that the endurance usage is off the charts to the point where I'm contemplating getting ageless to alternate with icy bastion.
Anyway, my point is that ice armor is very, very good if you're not shy about purples and pvp ios.
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You can't perma any of the tier 9s, and they are there exactly for tough situations. A major complaint about SR and Nin is that their tier 9s just stack on more of the same and thus aren't very helpful once you've reached the softcap (more true for SR as nin gets extra ddr from retsu). Ice is middle way between a defense, resistance, and regen set, really, which is better than being master of one, especially when you can reach the softcap with a little IO investment. |
Originally Posted by Armath
Yeah, well, you can't perma it and it lasts only for half a minute, which is ideal only for tough nut situations. Granted, it has no crash and gives superior resistances, but still...im not seeing any decent +def on /ice. You know, /ice is like the middle way between a defense and a resistance set, decent on both sides, but master of none. If i wanted to run a set with resistances, elec seems much better. Recharge, mezzes, a heal, resistances, drain end and pretty much everything else /ice offers except the mediocre s/l/e/n defenses and the slow/damage debuff.
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Electric armor is an extremely strong secondary if you can cap its s/l defense with set bonuses and power pools and get enough recharge going to make energize almost perma. Electric also has a great deal of mitigation diversity, just not as much as ice. It makes up for that with the recharge boost and immunity to end drain.
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Have only run into one situation so far (ACU's and their Chem Patches in tight quarters as I recall) where I've ever felt truly slowed on my various /SR characters particularly to the point of feeling threatened. Then again this is primarily considering my main scrapper and compared to pretty much any of my builds she's in a league of her own. While I agree 100% is certainly better than 40 or 60 (Winter's Gift) sounds edge case enough to be a non-issue (either in favor or against).|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Well the difference between 40% and 100% slow resistance is enormous in those cases where it will actually matter, though 40% is good enough for most slows. With Ice, you are going to take all those powers (except maybe Permafrost) anyway.
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This is always the major benefit of SR (especially now that the HO nerf stopped shield from matching SR here). Ice has some tools to deal with defense debuff, in that it can simply pile on extra defense from Energy Absorption. It also has several other means of mitigation, so a cascading defense failure is not nearly as dangerous as it would be to, say, /nin. The stalker version of /ice gets Icy Bastion as a tier 9, which with proper slotting will cap most of your resistances. It also gives a tremendous amount of +regen. With ice you also have the ability to easily cap your hit points, drain your enemies' endurance, and apply a constant slow/-damage debuff. The set just offers an enormous variety of mitigation. Once you hit the softcap to at least s/l, mitigation variety is king. |
Doomguide
Ice is an interesting set. You cannot not judge it by numbers alone due to the back up Regen. Also if you perma hasten your stalker you are looking at some fine regen numbers. I think it is the best stalker secondary out there currently.
I'm not the best when it comes to making builds for Melee toons but with all the incarnate goodness and procs and bonuses.
My stalker is looking at 1216% Regen Total...that's nothing to sneeze at.
I am definitely shy about pvp IOs and purples. I will do Elec/Ice. Might as well try it. Still working on my STJ/SR, but after that, elec/ice.
Lewis
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"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
All,
I am planning a couple of stalkers. I want to try Dual Blades and I want to try Electric Melee. As for the secondaries, I love Super Reflexes, but I want to try Ice Armor. I am wondering how would you pair these up, and why?
DB/SR and Elec/Ice?
DB/Ice and Elec/SR?
I was leaning to the second option, simply because I wanted more global recharge for Thunder Strike, but in a way, I think that the first option is a bit more thematic. Shadowy Stabber and Elemental Being.
Any suggestions in regard to synergy?
Also, I plan to skip Chilling Embrace because I dont want to juggle it with Placate, and unlike a lot of people, I actually use Placate often. I constantly placate a hard foe while I destroy other ones (once my first hidden attacks have landed). So, I want to skip CE entirely. Or is that a huge mistake?
Thanks,
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan