Perma-controlling an AV?

Blue_Fenix · 03-10-2012 02:54 AM

I've seen some examples on the forums of Dominators controlling an AV even through the Purple Triangles of Doom, most famously with confusion on the solo LRSF that someone did with Mind/Fire.

I've got some questions though....

Is Confuse particularly easier to stack enough mag compared to Hold?

Can ANY Dominator perma-control an AV with the right build?

Does anyone have the actual math for how much control duration and recharge is needed to pull this off?

Any other tips or tricks on this topic?

DreadShinobi · 03-10-2012 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Fenix

Is Confuse particularly easier to stack enough mag compared to Hold?

Yes. Confuse has a longer base duration compared to a Dominator's Single target hold.

Quote:

Can ANY Dominator perma-control an AV with the right build?

Yes, however a faster animating single target hold makes it much easier (Dominate, Char).
Edit: I should say that any permadom dominator can do it.

Quote:

Does anyone have the actual math for how much control duration and recharge is needed to pull this off?

You need to stack mag 56 on an AV to permahold or confuse it. This means stacking 10 mezzes (56/6=9.33, round up) on it. Simply use (C+R)*10=D. Where C is your hold's cast time using arcanatime numbers, R is it's recharge, and D is the duration you need. Let's say your cast time is 1 and your recharge is 3, this would mean your hold's duration would need to be at least 40.

However there are 4 asterisks to this.
1) A Domination boosted hold works in 2 parts. 1 is the regular duration mag 3 hold, and the other is the domination duration mag 3 hold. It is a total of mag 6, but there are 2 seperate durations, 1 shorter and 1 longer. Make sure to factor that in. Sometimes this can mean needing more than 10 mezzes to permahold an AV depending on what hold you are using and how much recharge you have.
2) If you are using an attack chain that would mean not using your single target hold immediately when it is up make sure you factor that in and add that time to R in the formula above.
3) Don't forget about your 5% chance to miss. For this reason you should be building for enough recharge to be able to stack more than the bare minimum to hold the AV.
4) Higher level AVs are resistant to mez which will cut into your durations. It is significantly easier to permahold a lvl 50 AV compared to a lvl 53 AV.

Quote:

Any other tips or tricks on this topic?

You can confuse your target AV first. Confuse doesn't cause aggro so you can safely stack mag 60 on it without any hate. After you have your confuses set up start cycling in your single target hold, when the AV is permaheld you can stop using confuse and start using your attacks. If you aren't concerned about it, you can pop Demonic/Archmage and start using Holds right off the bat.

RevolverMike · 03-10-2012 04:15 AM

Out of curiosity, would you be able to explain how TK would affect this scenario Dread? It would burn through a targets hold protection right?

Never been able to bring myself to take it off my Mind/Fire even tho it doesnt get much use since the days of leveling my main.

ketch · 03-10-2012 05:24 AM

TK would just act as a mag 6 hold on the AV (in domination). It doesn't stack magnitude beyond that (at least not for more than a brief tick). I imagine the prohibitive endurance cost would keep most builds from running it while maintaining an attack chain.

Necrotech_Master · 03-10-2012 06:21 AM

from personal experience confuse is much easier to perma on an AV than holds

i usually use my mind/fire for soloing the ITF relying basically on confuse to make sure almost nothing attacks me

me and a friend have also utilized perma confuse to duo the LRSF

just be aware that certain AVs are essentially immune to mez unless you have like a full team with you

statesman in LRSF and the honoree in LGTF both have base mag 100 protection (156 when you factor in the PTOD and base protection) and they have 50% duration resist on all mez so all mez only lasts half as long

hami and the mitos in the LGTF have around 500 confuse protection so confuse wouldnt work in that situation either

i think bane spider scouts are also extremely resistant to confuse as well but since they are just LTs pretty easy to use alternate methods

DreadShinobi · 03-10-2012 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevolverMike

Out of curiosity, would you be able to explain how TK would affect this scenario Dread? It would burn through a targets hold protection right?

Never been able to bring myself to take it off my Mind/Fire even tho it doesnt get much use since the days of leveling my main.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ketch

TK would just act as a mag 6 hold on the AV (in domination). It doesn't stack magnitude beyond that (at least not for more than a brief tick). I imagine the prohibitive endurance cost would keep most builds from running it while maintaining an attack chain.

Yep, it's basically just a perma mag 6 hold that costs an exorbitant amount of endurance as ketch said.

However there are 2 things it can be good for:
1) On teams people aren't likely going to wait around for you to stack mag 56+ holds on an av, so being able to lock them down faster does have it's merits. After your 5th hold, you can do a quick attack chain of Dominate>TK>Dominate>Total Domination>Dominate, which will perma hold your target ~6-7 seconds faster (and then untoggle TK after 2 more holds). Whether or not you consider that worth it is totally up to you. You will probably have total domination anyways.
2) Tilman in the 4th phase of MoM. After she is affected by a GM TKing her all the way back to the wall gives your league ALOT of breathing room.

Otherwise it's a very skippable power imo.