Some of us would play a Brute (or even a Tanker) if we wanted those things.
We don't all want all the features of all the ATs piled on the other ATs.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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My point is...|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Some of us would play a Brute (or even a Tanker) if we wanted those things.
We don't all want all the features of all the ATs piled on the other ATs. |
An Invulnerability player could stick with the Scrapper and protect thier teammates.
A regen player would have to play a Brute in order to protect thier teammates.
I could understand your point if none of the Scrapper secondaries came with a taunt aura...but the fact is, the feature you don't want already exists on this AT.
Basically...if the Invulnerability, SD and WP secondary can be the same on the Brute AT and the Scrapper AT...why not Regen, SR and others?
Quote:
Because many players took those Scrappers sets with the full anticipation that they would not be drawing aggro with them, which is the playstyle that they want. As you mention in your OP, the sets that have a Taunt aura are the ones who gain an actual performance boost out of it.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
My point is...
An Invulnerability player could stick with the Scrapper and protect thier teammates. A regen player would have to play a Brute in order to protect thier teammates. I could understand your point if none of the Scrapper secondaries came with a taunt aura...but the fact is, the feature you don't want already exists on this AT. Basically...if the Invulnerability, SD and WP secondary can be the same on the Brute AT and the Scrapper AT...why not Regen, SR and others? |
Right now, a Scrapper can choose a set that lets them be an off-Tank, or they can choose a set that doesn't draw aggro. If they were all given aggro auras, that choice would go away. If a player wants a melee AT that can Tank with those sets, they have two other ATs to choose from to do that. I am okay with an AT that plays in melee that doesn't get automatic aggro.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
This. |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Because many players took those Scrappers sets with the full anticipation that they would not be drawing aggro with them, which is the playstyle that they want. As you mention in your OP, the sets that have a Taunt aura are the ones who gain an actual performance boost out of it.
Right now, a Scrapper can choose a set that lets them be an off-Tank, or they can choose a set that doesn't draw aggro. If they were all given aggro auras, that choice would go away. If a player wants a melee AT that can Tank with those sets, they have two other ATs to choose from to do that. I am okay with an AT that plays in melee that doesn't get automatic aggro. |
Look at some of the sets that don't get taunt auras on scrappers:
SR and Regen are the two primary ones at this point. Unlike Invuln, WP, Shield, and Energy Aura, those two sets are actually in MORE danger when they are surrounded by enemies, not less.
The more enemies an SR has around them, the higher the chances of having several big hits get through at once.
The more enemies around a Regen, the more likely the incoming damage is to overwhelm their ability to heal it back.
Both of those sets benefit from their ability to disengage from combat in order to heal. If they had taunt auras, they wouldn't be able to do that anymore because they'd drag everything with them when they tried.
They don't get the advantage of higher HP like brutes do in order to absorb all that extra damage.
Personally, I'd be annoyed if my Regen scrapper were suddenly given a taunt aura. He survives fine, but I'd start pulling enemies away from tanks through damage output.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
What Aett and Claws said.
I don't play Scrappers to be off-tank. If I happen to be able to and one is needed, cool, I might do it. It's not why I'm there. I'm there to kill stuff. If something is bothering a teammate, I go kill it, not taunt it. Taunting is bonus. I don't expect or want that bonus on every Scrapper I play. It's not why I play Scrappers.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I agree with the previous posters. Scrappers should not, as a default, be given a taunt aura on every set. They are not designed as tanks and there are many times when pulling off the tank is bad.
That said, I'd love to see scrappers get an optional taunt as a unique IO or in one of the Incarnate slots so high end scrappers could build towards that type of play, but I wouldn't want to see it added in to additional sets as a default.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Also as someone who usually plays "the tank" (regardless of AT), it's a REALLY bad idea to have an extra locus of aggro generation out there that might wind up pulling enemies off me and onto squishier teammates.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Either give all scrappers a weak taunt aura, or fix the run-away mechanics so scrappers with no taunt auras can solo properly.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Correct me if I'm wrong but do the Dark Armor PBAoEs have a taunt component? Seems to me like those would also work as taunt auras.
And if they don't, I think mobs have a built in hatred of control effects which would also help DA attract agro, making 4 sets viable for tanking on Scrappers.
Quote:
The do not have taunt effects on the Scrapper versions.
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Originally Posted by DMystic
Correct me if I'm wrong but do the Dark Armor PBAoEs have a taunt component? Seems to me like those would also work as taunt auras.
And if they don't, I think mobs have a built in hatred of control effects which would also help DA attract agro, making 4 sets viable for tanking on Scrappers. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
From what I can tell, a well slotted Cloak of Fear often pins minions in place cowering, preventing them from running. Damage ticks give them an opportunity to attack, but the fear keeps them from running.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
The do not have taunt effects on the Scrapper versions.
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Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Quote:
Fear can cause mobs to run away.
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Originally Posted by Moonlighter
From what I can tell, a well slotted Cloak of Fear often pins minions in place cowering, preventing them from running. Damage ticks give them an opportunity to attack, but the fear keeps them from running.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
I've never seen that happen with the actual Fear effect.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Fear can cause mobs to run away.
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I know there's a second effect called Frightened that causes running but that effect is limited to certain damage patches(Caltrops) and similar effects.
Quote:
You might have been using an immobilizing power alongside it, or killed the mobs before they had a chance to run.
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Originally Posted by DMystic
I've never seen that happen with the actual Fear effect.
I know there's a second effect called Frightened that causes running but that effect is limited to certain damage patches(Caltrops) and similar effects. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
There are two different fear effects. One which will cause the mob to scatter, and then there's the actual "Fear" mechanic, which causes them to freeze in place, cowering.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
You might have been using an immobilizing power alongside it, or killed the mobs before they had a chance to run.
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Powers with the Former (examples): Hot Feet, Rain of Fire, Arctic Air
Powers with the Latter: Cloak of Fear, Terrify, Touch of Fear.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
That was changed in Fear powers a while ago. Some powers have panic effects like Rain of Fire, but the actual Fear powers cause enemies to stand in place cowering.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Fear can cause mobs to run away.
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At one time CoF did cause enemies to flee though.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
I think all damage aura powers should have taunt included with them, my biggest issue is with /FA. My fm/fa scrapper was probabaly the funnest toon i've ever played until i got burn and mobs started to scatter 5 seconds into a fight. I aggree that not all secondaries need taunts added to them but some could definetly benfit from it. /sr? No i dont think that would do anything but hurt it. Same with /regen. But /fa? I don't see it doing anything but helping the set function, imo.
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How will not having mobs flee hurt SR? Sure, if the taunt aura is massive like Inv and SD it will be hurtful, but having a weak taunt aura like WP's will help solo SR's a whole lot while not hurting their teaming experience.
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Originally Posted by Abyssus
/sr? No i dont think that would do anything but hurt it. Same with /regen. But /fa? I don't see it doing anything but helping the set function, imo.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
This. Absolutely. I have a DM/Regen that I would love to tank with, but certainly wouldn't want to always generate aggro. Something like a Celerity +stealth, but for Taunt, in an IO, or even just a Taunt Aura Toggle added to the Presence Pool would be a decent option.|
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
I'd love to see scrappers get an optional taunt as a unique IO or in one of the Incarnate slots so high end scrappers could build towards that type of play, but I wouldn't want to see it added in to additional sets as a default.
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And an added point here for those of you saying how terrible it would be for certain Powersets to have a Taunt aura, keep in mind that as long as it wasn't part of a 'must-have' power, you could always skip it for playstyle tailoring.
- Xyzor, Lightning.Rod, Kagyx - Rubber Mulch / Wholesale Candy - Freedom Server
Would it be so bad if all Scrapper secondaries got a taunt aura?
Now secondaries like Invulnerability, Shield Defense, and WP get one because it helps fuel their survivability...but it's a shame that those are the only choices for scrappers who want to protect their teammates.
On top of that...their primary taunt power is only single target...further reducing their taunting abilities when compared to Brutes.
I think it's a shame that in order to protect your teammates, you're better off going with a former villain-only AT instead of a former hero-only AT.
Would it be so bad if all Scrapper secondaries got a taunt aura?