Ion Judgement to hit
By
Aneurysmo,
Posted on: 2012-01-24 01:00 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Well... you cannot slot anything in the power... I could see why it should be auto hit.
I do not recall ever missing with Pyronic.
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
All the other Judgement powers 100% can and DO miss. I have seen them all do it..and it you hit a typical baf/lam/ug mob with one, it is pretty common to see at least one Miss. But..Ion cant miss? Ever?
Another thing..maybe in pve it isnt 'so' bad...but it is exactly the same in pvp. Ion will NOT miss. Now, of course people say lolpvp...but, an auto hit chain nuke in pvp isnt broken? Just ask an MM.
Chain powers are kinda unique in that if the first hit doesn't land, the entire chain never goes off. For a normal power that's an acceptable weakness; on a Judgement it would be really, really frustrating.
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Yes, we do!
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Now, of course people say lolpvp...
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This right here, on both points.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Chain powers are kinda unique in that if the first hit doesn't land, the entire chain never goes off. For a normal power that's an acceptable weakness; on a Judgement it would be really, really frustrating.
Yes, we do! |
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They can all miss. None of them are auto-hit. What might be autohit there is a "feeler" effect that's used to determine if the target is valid for a jump. Ion will not jump to a target that's recently been affected by it already.|
Originally Posted by _Pine_
Well... you cannot slot anything in the power... I could see why it should be auto hit.
I do not recall ever missing with Pyronic. |
Edit: I was close. Based on data from Red Tomax, the power itself is autohit, but then it has an internal double-check on the hit roll, and only applies damage if the tohit roll was such that the power would have hit with it. RedTomax's displays don't seem to show it checking to see if you already have "ChainInduction" set on you, which is probably the flag that keeps it from re-striking you if you've recently been hit. I'm guessing the auto-hit with internal hit check either has something to do with that behavior, or the need to summon the chain entity.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
From what I remember, Ion really is autohit, while all the others are regular powers. This is why so many people choose Ion. Well, one of the main reasons.
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I've never seen my Ion miss - this should be easy to test, actually, lemme go find a MoG Paragon Protector.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
They can all miss. None of them are auto-hit.
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Mine has missed level 1 Hellions.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
I've never seen my Ion miss - this should be easy to test, actually, lemme go find a MoG Paragon Protector.
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Well, I drew a blank on where to easily find a level 50 Paragon Protector blueside, so instead I started an Ouro arc that capped me at 45, went to RWZ, and fired Ion into a spawn of 54s. It hit all of them, despite being +8. My Last Hit Chance also still displayed 0.00%, which also implies there was no hit roll.
Dechs, did you get a Miss message, or did the power just fail to chain? If you have a DoT interface, it can kill the Hellion before the power jumps, which (at least until recently) prevented jumps.
Of course it would be frustrating in Ion 'could' miss the first target, and deny you any. But is that reason enough to make arguably the best and easiest Judgement to use, Autohit? Would it still be worth taking if it could miss that first target? Totally. Shouldnt the chain jumps at least have a to hit?
It is basically making sure 100 will hit Max targets in range, all the time, every time. None of the others can.
I'd rather have all of the judgement powers made autohit than have Ion nerfed. In PvE at least. I don't care what happens to PvP, nerf it there I suppose.
Great idea! Lets make aoe nukes with huge damage and a decent recharge, ALL autohit? Umm..pants off head please?
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I explained why this is the case already. The power is autohit, but then internally checks whether or not the hit roll would have hit before it applies any damage. (Even autohit powers "roll" a tohit number, and the power mechanics can check it against the required target number after the fact. This attack mechanic has been around a long time.)|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Well, I drew a blank on where to easily find a level 50 Paragon Protector blueside, so instead I started an Ouro arc that capped me at 45, went to RWZ, and fired Ion into a spawn of 54s. It hit all of them, despite being +8. My Last Hit Chance also still displayed 0.00%, which also implies there was no hit roll.
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What I believe this does mean is that "missing" your initial target probably does not prevent the chain from initiating. Each individual target, however, has a chance of taking no damage. This makes its overall chance-to-miss mechanics basically the same as something like Pyronic. That's probably why it's designed like this.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Other judgement powers already have high base accuracy. All of my incarnate characters have capped chance to hit lvl 54's with them as it is now. I don't see what the big deal is here. It's not like PvE is balanced on a razor's edge in the first place.
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No. As released, Ion jumps were effected by +damage from sources other than the alpha slot. This lead to people hitting for 1500+ damage per target.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
From what I remember, Ion really is autohit, while all the others are regular powers. This is why so many people choose Ion. Well, one of the main reasons.
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So farmers took it and ran with it until it changed. Even after the correction, Ion can hit up to 44 targets in a larger area than other judgements.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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It wasn't just 'farmers' who picked it at the time.|
Originally Posted by Lohenien
No. As released, Ion jumps were effected by +damage from sources other than the alpha slot. This lead to people hitting for 1500+ damage per target.
So farmers took it and ran with it until it changed. Even after the correction, Ion can hit up to 44 targets in a larger area than other judgements. |
It's still picked very commonly now. I'd say the hitting around corners, a good damage type, the no need to position or aim are the bigger reasons for its popularity than fond memories about an old bug.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
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I really like the completely retarded cone size and range of both the Cryonic T4 judgements, especially on my Cardiac Core toons who get even more range out of it... unfortunately these Judgements can miss and only hit up to 32 targets... le sigh*
NERF ION NERF ION NERF ION NERF ION-whoops sorry about that, the balance fairy got me there for a sec.
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Eh, I think it's fine. Pyronic is a lot faster. Void has the best debuff. So I really wouldn't say that Ion is the best. They all have their own advantages.
I was messing about in talos, nuking random mobs with my Ion Judgement and noticed this..
HIT Sorcerer! Your Ion Core Judgement power is autohit.
Your Ion Core Judgement deals 1670.59 points of energy damage to Sorcerer!
Does not seem right. So I made sure all the damage, combat, to hit texts were in my tab, and went and hit TWO minions together with it.
HIT Warrior Chopper! Your Ion Core Judgement power is autohit.
Ion Core Judgement: HIT Warrior Slicer! Your Ion Core Judgement power is autohit.
So...the first blast is autohit, THEN the jumps are too?? Is this how it actually works? More to the point, if so, how is that balanced, considering the huge range and spread of the power.