Can ice slick be changed to remove knockback protection to the enemies?
By
Blood Red Arachnid,
Posted on: 2012-01-19 24:44 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Let's see... Something the tech can do...
* Ice Slick grants a short-duration power to the target called Standing On Ice Slick
* All powers that grant -KB to enemies will need to be tweaked to check for Standing On Ice Slick prior application
While it's possible, I wouldn't see it happening. What I could see happening is that casting Flash Freeze on targets affected by Standing On Ice Slick would result in an AoE Hold (with -KB) rather than AoE Sleep.
yeah but it isn't the guy with ice slick casting the aoe immobilize, it is another controller who uses their aoe immobilize to do damage (and usually tries to prevent enemies from gathering into a nice aoe bundle, thinking having them spread out is helpful)
It sounds too impractical to actually implement. The last thing we need is for powers to constantly be checking for umpteen exceptions.
I am a fan of Ice Slick, and an even bigger fan of Ice Slick + Freezing Rain, since both have a similar slow+KB effect that stack with each other. The best way to deal with the whole "other group immobilize" thing is to not use ice slick on groups that other trollers are immobilizing. In those cases, it is better to try and emphasize the -recharge effect of ice sets than it is to try and get enemies to dance for you. When there are ambushes, it helps to lay down the ice slick in advance to the besieging foes, since the trollers are probably caught up on the other group. That, or the trollers will see the Ice Slick in advance, and go "Oh... I get it!" where in normal combat they don't have that time to think.
Sadly this makes Ice Slick a very situational power, even if it is fun and effective.
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Quote:
Having played an Ice Tank, and Blaster, I have to agree with this sentiment. It does very well handing targets that get within Melee range, which is what it's supposed to do. Once it's out of Melee range though, is the 'situational' part of the power. They're now forced to use whatever ranged attacks they have (many things are weaker at ranged attacks, unfortunately some foes are better at range, but that's where knowing enemies and tactics comes in).|
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
Sadly this makes Ice Slick a very situational power, even if it is fun and effective.
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Would I wish it kept folks from knocking back? On some of my Tanks, Scrappers, and Brutes, very much yes I wish I had more powers with -KB sometimes. That could actually be a bennie to a Melee or Armor power set at some point (reverting it only to Knockdown) and would be awesome (Mud Pots would be thematically great for that, for example) whereas Ice might make KB even easier, so I suppose we should count our blessings. I have a number of Ranged/Control characters that wish they had more knockback (And one crazy Blapper of mine that rues the fact he's NRG/NRG
)As it stands, Knockback is a power that has its tactical uses and pitfalls. After seeing a number of Dev's post about it, that's kind of how it is by design.
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I couldn't agree more.
Part of the problem is that the Knockdown in Ice Slick is actually defined as (as I recall) .67 magnitude Knockback. Immobilize powers like Frostbite work by giving the target -100 Knockback. If your Knockback total is 0 or less you aren't knocked down (or back).
The straightforward solution to Frostbite working against Ice Slick would seem to be to increase the magnitude of Ice Slick's Knockback so that it exceeds the Knockback "protection" that Frostbite provides. The only problem is that Ice Slick's knockdown would then actually be a very high Knockback that shoots mobs out of the Ice Slick.
You can actually see that happen in practice with low-level Clockwork, who are weak to knockback.
The real problem is that Knockdown is defined as any Knockback less than 1.0. Knockup is a different effect. One could argue that knockdown and knockback should be separated along the same lines as knockup. That would entail a lot of changes in a lot of powers, however.
It actually makes sense that immobilize powers like Frostbite and Chilblain prevent knockdown and knockback. If your feet are frozen to the ground, you're not going to slip and slide on the ice slick. Yes, it's inconvenient, and yes, it's kind of stupid that Ice Control contains powers that work completely at cross purposes. But it's not unreasonable that the powers work the way they do, given what they are.
Was it a mistake to put powers in the same set that actively undermine each other's effectiveness? I think so. But what to do about it at this stage of the game?
Generally, each control set has a single-target hold, a single-target immobilize, an AoE hold and a disabling AoE like Stalagmites, Flash Fire or Ice Slick. Stalagmites and Flash Fire stun their targets and work fine with the AoE immobilizes from their sets, but Ice Control gets the shaft with Frostbite.
One solution is to change Ice Slick so that it also includes a chance for stun. Each time the slick checks for knockdown there would also be, say, a 30 or 50% chance for a short-duration stun, similar to Arctic Air's chance for confuse. That way, pairing Ice Slick with an AoE immobilize would only disable a part of its effect. Properly enhanced, Ice Slick could then become an AoE stun with a unique animation. That might also entail sacrificing some recharge or duration to make it comparable to the other AoE stuns.
This kind of change leaves the basic mechanics of the whole system alone, retains the essential characteristics of Ice Slick, yet allows it to retain its inherent utility regardless of what other powers may be in use.
ice slick is a great control, except half the time somebody else will do an aoe immobilize which has knockback protection on it, rendering the slick useless.
The immobilize can give a buff - kb protection - to the foes.
Can ice slick remove kb protection? Not increase the amount of KB in ice slick - that would make it knockback instead of knock down.
it seems like it is probably impossible given current tech