out of these 4 secondaries which is best


Azucar_NA

 

Posted

which is the best/most fun MM Secondary out of these 4 to go with Demon Summoning?

/Sonic
/Poison
/Traps
/Trick Arrow

im aware of how good Traps is supposed to be, but im looking for something thats not just decent but fun too

id like opinions on all 4 if possible


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavos View Post
which is the best/most fun MM Secondary out of these 4 to go with Demon Summoning?

/Sonic
/Poison
/Traps
/Trick Arrow
Sonic synergizes with Demons' inherent Resistances and gives you Resistance Debuffing and some Mez Protection.

Poison doesn't really synergize with Demons, but it does let YOU do nasty things to hard targets.

Traps operates best wherever and whenever you can Stand And Stick to slug it out. Traps doesn't work all that well for a highly mobile Mastermind who is constantly running around (see: Steamroller Teams). Best way to think of Traps is as a sort of Portable Fort that you set up wherever you go, but which doesn't travel with you when you move.

Trick Arrow ... uh ... hmm. I've got a 50 Ninja/TA ... and I can't really think of anything GOOD to say about Trick Arrow in a PvE context. Trick Arrow ... underperforms ... at everything, except Oil Slick Arrow.


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Posted

It goes without saying (but I'm still going to say it) that "fun" is quite subjective and no one will be able to tell you what's fun for you.

With that out of the way, I can try to describe, at a high level, what they play like and maybe that will help point you to what you find fun.

Sonic - Bubble every 4 minutes. Use Sonic Siphon every now and then. Make sure to reapply Disruption Field whenever you go through an elevator. Use blue inspirations, frequently. Full disclosure - I haven't played a /Sonic MM yet, but I've played an unusual amount of Sonic Resonance and have logged a few hours with MMs as well, so I'm pretty confident that's about how it would go.

Poison - Throw out a couple of debuffs, use a hold, single target heal. I played this twice to 50 with the old Poison and haven't spent much time with the new version. Envenom and Weaken only each have an 8 foot radius. Personally, I didn't find Poison very fun. This paragraph has actually inspired me to log onto a thugs/poison to see how it differs.

Traps - Traps is Traps. Some people think it's "barrel of monkeys" fun, other people hate it. I'm in the former category. Lay down a stationary debuff or 2, maybe a toebomb or two. Or you can create a kill zone and lure enemies into it (not my style). I normally avoid saying something is "the best" but out of these four, Traps is clearly the best.

Trick Arrow - Flashy. Lots of boom, lots of burn. I'm sure it's pretty key to pick the right henchmen to go with TA. By that I mean henchmen that are fairly survivable on their own, such as Demons or Robots. I have a bots/TA and I love it. At least now that it's 50 and built up. I think one power in the set is enough to differentiate it for fun (for me) and that's Oil Slick Arrow. It has a long recharge so it's not up every spawn, but a high recharge build (with spiritual) can get it usable more often.

So, for my own opinion of fun, among those 4 choices, I think TA was "funnest". YMMV.


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Posted

I know like nothing about demons and how they play, but as for secondaries /sonic seems fairly hands off and effective, but it has no heal to go with it. I played the previous /poison and that was terrible in any group, but that was necro/psn, thug/psn might be better now. I've never seen this mentioned, but I feel that traps is a melee secondary and trick arrow is ranged. I wouldn't pair TA w/ any non-ranged primary. I think merc/TA works fairly well, since cones are more effective when done from distance. I have a nin/traps since poison trap, trip mine, and caltrops seem like great melee powers with nothing to keep people at range.


 

Posted

Demons/Sonic definitely has synergy. It matures pretty fast for a mastermind. Partly, it is the theme where all the pets are buffed. Another aspect: the mastermind doesn't heal, BUT the ember demon heals the other demons, which coupled with the resistance buffs is quite sturdy. The dispersion mezz protection is underrated; time with all its tools has the mezz 'hole'. Disruption field gets more and more effective with increases in numbers of pets/teammates. The effectiveness of disruption field is amazing. It has no accuracy check. Its potency does NOT matter on the level of the anchor; it works as well on a tank roommate, any pet, or even if you dare, your veteran buff pet/wisp.

Demons/poison stacks debuffs with your pets' buffs and damage aura. Poison won't feature you thriving on */ X8 spawns, but +2/X1 or +3/X2 are achievable. It's a big game hunter. My Demons/Poison could do different things from my level-pact Demons/Dark, but together 1 + 1 > 2

Traps goes well with any pets. It's very nice. Demons don't chase terribly much and Demons stay in the kill zone.

*/Trick Arrow is not optimal solo, BUT as a support group with ember demon heals contributes a TON of debuff on teams. As simplistic and unadorned as it is, Glue Arrow really can stick your spawns in the Oil Slick. TA definitely features the kill zone factor.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlynne View Post
Traps operates best wherever and whenever you can Stand And Stick to slug it out. Traps doesn't work all that well for a highly mobile Mastermind who is constantly running around (see: Steamroller Teams). Best way to think of Traps is as a sort of Portable Fort that you set up wherever you go, but which doesn't travel with you when you move.
I disagree strongly.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge View Post
I disagree strongly.
Please state your evidence.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlynne View Post
Please state your evidence.
How about you state yours? You have nothing but baseless opinions and utter nonsense in your post.

Traps is no more stationary than Dark Miasma or Thermal Radiation. In fact, Melt Armor takes longer to recharge than Acid Mortar.

Again, cite your own damn evidence.


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Posted

Caltrops: non-mobile target location AoE control power
Triage Beacon: non-mobile buff "pet"
Acid Mortar: non-mobile debuff "pet"
Poison Trap: non-mobile debuff/control "pet"
Trip Mine: non-mobile "set and forget" delayed blast PBAoE

Web Grenade: ranged debuff/control attack power
Force Field Generator: mobile buff pet
Seeker Drones: mobile self-destructing attack pets
Detonator: make one of your Primary powerset pets self-destruct (for PBAoE damage)


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Posted

Whether they are mobile is not the question. Most of these powers recharge as fast or faster than their comparable versions in other sets.

What point is mobility when recharge is the primary limiting factor in "steamrolling teams" as you put it?

Either you have never played /traps or never played it well, because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlynne View Post
Caltrops: non-mobile target location AoE control power
Triage Beacon: non-mobile buff "pet"
Acid Mortar: non-mobile debuff "pet"
Poison Trap: non-mobile debuff/control "pet"
Trip Mine: non-mobile "set and forget" delayed blast PBAoE

Web Grenade: ranged debuff/control attack power
Force Field Generator: mobile buff pet
Seeker Drones: mobile self-destructing attack pets
Detonator: make one of your Primary powerset pets self-destruct (for PBAoE damage)
Acid Mortar has a 100-foot range, so that's a 200-foot-diameter area covered. A lot of mobility can happen in that space - it's a significant chunk of even the new huge warehouse spaces. I noticed that on ITF steamroller runs this weekend, it was pretty routine for any given acid mortar to be good for 2-3 close mobs, being pulled rapidly by the typical steamroller run leader. And with it slotted and my awesome amazing 22.50% global recharge, I've got it coming up every 40 seconds.

The other characters I've played most the last couple months are robots/force field mastermind and illusion/radiation controller, and in practical terms, I don't find Infinitix, my robots/traps character, moving around less during and between fights. Nor do I find myself wishing others weren't so mobile so that my stuff would work better.

Every power set has some occasional nuisances. Buffs wear off at bad times. People wantonly and with cluelessness aforethought kill my /rad and /dark anchor targets. Meleers object to Force Bubble separating them and their powers from their targets. For me personally, the big nuisance in Poison Trap and Trip Mine is not that they're immobile but that they go down at my feet. Signed, Loves Playing Ranged In Seattle


 

Posted

Traps definitely does work better when you can stay in a place for a long time, but it works well in high-paced environments as well. If the team is moving too fast, then increase the difficulty from -1/x0. I skip triage, it's a terrible power. And if you lay acid between spawns or even in the spawn then it's good to go for the group after as well (I'm nin so I have no trouble going in melee). I think of traps as a melee set rather than ranged because it has no powers to keep enemies at significant range and 4/9 powers work in close range (caltrops, poison trap, trip mine, and detonator).


 

Posted

I could certainly go with talking about traps as "melee set with ranged uses too", or as a hybrid (like, say, demons or thugs).


 

Posted

A thought, while looking at just what is I have characters do in fights...

Not all that many engagements are purely static or purely mobile. In any multi-enemy mob, there'll be some things that move a bunch and some that don't move so much. Many single-target fights are against enemies that can be pulled and kited, and can also be fought in place.

To a large degree, therefore, how we choose to approach a fight determines how mobile it'll be. And everyone who's in it has some say, by the fact of what they do.


 

Posted

On groups with larger spawns, an experienced traps user can place his acid mortar between the current group and the next group. Also, as mentioned before, trapping is only as stationary as the recharge rate of the powers.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.