[Proposal] Change Peacebringer Knockback

Issue 21.5 LIVE Servers
(all links to City of Data)

Peacebringer Human Form KB Powers

• Gleaming Blast (Ranged): 1.869 Knockback (10% chance)
• Radiant Strike (Melee): 2 Knockback (60% chance)
• Luminous Detonation (Target AoE): 3.739 Knockback (50% chance)
• Incandescent Strike (Melee): 0.67 Knockback (80% chance)
• Solar Flare (PBAoE): 4.154 Knockback (80% chance)
• Photon Seekers (Pet): 2.077 Knockback (50% chance)
• Dawn Strike (PBAoE): 18.694 Knockback (100% chance)

Peacebringer Nova Form KB Powers

• Bright Nova Blast (Ranged): 1.869 Knockback (10% chance)
• Bright Nova Detonation (Target AoE): 3.739 Knockback (50% chance)

Peacebringer Dwarf Form KB Powers

• White Dwarf Strike (Melee): 0.67 Knockback (30% chance)
• White Dwarf Smite (Melee): 0.67 Knockback (30% chance)
• White Dwarf Flare (PBAoE): 0.67 Knockback (80% chance)

Proposed Changes ...



Peacebringer Human Form KB Powers

• Gleaming Blast (Ranged): 0.67 Knockback (100% chance) + 1.199 Knockback (10% chance)
• Radiant Strike (Melee): 0.75 KnockUP (100% chance) + 1.25 KnockUP (60% chance)
• Luminous Detonation (Target AoE): 0.67 Knockback (100% chance) + 3.069 Knockback (50% chance)
• Incandescent Strike (Melee): 0.75 KnockUP (100% chance)
• Solar Flare (PBAoE): 0.75 KnockUP (100% chance) + 3.404 KnockUP (80% chance)
• Photon Seekers (Pet): 0.67 Knockback (100% chance) + 1.407 Knockback (50% chance)
• Dawn Strike (PBAoE): 18.694 KnockUP (100% chance)

Peacebringer Nova Form KB Powers

• Bright Nova Blast (Ranged): 0.67 Knockback (100% chance) + 1.199 Knockback (10% chance)
• Bright Nova Detonation (Target AoE): 0.67 Knockback (100% chance) + 3.069 Knockback (50% chance)

Peacebringer Dwarf Form KB Powers

• White Dwarf Strike (Melee): 0.75 KnockUP (30% chance)
• White Dwarf Smite (Melee): 0.75 KnockUP (30% chance)
• White Dwarf Flare (PBAoE): 0.75 KnockUP (100% chance)

This posting is primarily for Arbiter Hawk owing to the fact that I was talking to him about this very topic at the Player Summit in the hallway before the keynote speech. I was trying to explain how one of the major frustrations with playing a Peacebringer is not just that they do Knockback, but also that they're so consistently inconsistent about doing it. By that I mean that only Dawn Strike has (on Live) a 100% chance to KB every target it hits. Literally every other power that a Peacebringer uses that does Knockback does so *purely* on a randomized basis. This means that you can never "count on it" when you need it to happen ... but can "always count on it happening" when you *DON'T* want it to happen.

This ... is frustrating ...

Now I don't expect Arbiter Hawk (Hi Jeff! /bigwave) to remember all of the details and nuances of that conversation we had ... especially since he seemed to be agreeing with some of the points I was making ... so I'm posting the main points of my position/argument here where it's easier to see and consider.

Oh and before anyone gets too "up in arms" about the idea of tagging powers with 0.75 KnockUP rather than 0.67 KnockBACK instead, consider that Air Superiority does 0.75 KnockUP (100% chance) and I haven't heard any complaints about THAT in all the time I've been playing (since Issue 2). If anything, I WANT the performance we see in Air Superiority ported over to Peacebringer Knock-about powers (specifically, the melee-ish powers) simply because Peacebringers are locked out of the Flight Pool and can thus never *get* Air Superiority (and its 100% guaranteed Knock-about).



The proposal you see above rests on two basic notions which synergize together to the advantage of Peacebringers.

1. Giving Peacebringer Knock-about powers a guaranteed chance to Knockback (for a "knockdown") ... with a chance to Knock further in keeping with their legacy performance. Note that on each and every single "Knock+Knock(chance)" effect the combined total Knock Mag exactly equals the total Knock Mag seen in the legacy values when adding up the "guarantee" and the "chance" portions of the effect(s).

2. Ranged and Target AoE powers cause KnockBACK, owing to their directional nature. Melee and PBAoE powers are converted to cause KnockUP, owing to the fact that having KnockBACK in these types of powers is counterproductive in the balance of situations (not all, granted, but certainly a great many, especially in Teams and Leagues) where Foe Scattering is often decidedly unhelpful ... both to Self and to Allies.



My thought for "why KnockUP rather than KnockDOWN via limited KnockBACK values?" is that Warshades are ... all about Gravity. Gravimetric Snare ... Gravity Well ... Gravimetric Emanation ... and using Movement and Recharge Debuffs to "convey" that sense of being Gravity Manipulators in their game mechanics. The Peacebringer counterpart to precisely those kinds of effects is ... Knock-about. So if Warshades are "all about Gravity" (and, let's face it, Necromancy!) ... why shouldn't Peacebringers be their "opposite" and have their powers be ... "all about Anti-Gravity" ... in effect? For me, at least, this line of reasoning makes sense (Your Mileage May Vary, of course).

The best part (for me, anyway) about the prospect of making these changes is that there is pretty much no REAL *NEED* to make any Artistic Changes to the game at all to implement them. I can see an argument for WANTING to make an artistic change to Dawn Strike and maybe Solar Flare of adding energy streamer FX onto $Targets Hit by Dawn Strike that works like a very temporary Avatar Aura (as they fly up ... then down) so as to visually connect the "action" of what's happening with the "attack" that caused those Foes to KnockUP the way they do ... but such an artistic touch wouldn't be strictly NECESSARY. Nice to have ... sure. A show stopper to not have? Not so much. That means that everything I'm talking about here is pretty much just pure database editing by the Powers Team (although I'm pretty sure the "duty" would fall on Arbiter Hawk to implement anything there).

Even better, it would be a relatively simple thing to QA and Playtest ... as far as these things go. All the changes do is make powers behave more consistently in ways that are obviously visible when played, rather than promoting "hidden" effects that are difficult to discern and judge the effectiveness of.



So ... Arbiter Hawk ... what do you say we have that Conversation ...?

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Overall, it looks decent... a few thoughts on it though;

I can agree with the knockUP in most of the melee attacks, but it just wouldn't look right on Radiant Strike.

RS is a gut punch, having the npc flip head over heals would look very odd. I'd rather they make it knockDOWN, it's not disruptive and it looks "right."

Likewise knockUP in Dawn Strike wouldn't feel right because it's a lateral burst of energy at center mass. The direction of force is horizontal, not vertical. KnockUP would work in Solar Flare because the origin point of the attack is below your center of gravity, but it would feel wrong on Dawn Strike.

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Sounds good to me. I mostly just want consistent, effective behavior from the powers. KB in a melee aoe power, or even melee powers, is an extremely old hold over from how the game used to be... and it's not a good holdover. The design and behavior of powers has improved a lot, and I'd like to see Kheldians get to that level as well.

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Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
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Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory

On the single target strikes Dwarf or Human as a minimum for balance purposes I would keep the chances as they are and make them all Knock up.

Reasoning being that PBs are locked out of flight pool, Air Sup is basically what they're spreading by chance over single target attacks but with Kb. So just turn them all into Kup.

Any of the Flares aren't too team friendly being Kb, knocking mobs apart does nothing for peoples cone attacks mainly then debuff toggles then aoe attacks. This might be the main reason for speed run exclusion.

I am not one for massive changes as I do feel I see that PBs and WS are somewhere ballpark right.

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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

I'm personally fine with the powers the way they are, but then again I am a fan of KB so I have a positive bias towards it. So of the powers would just look dumb having KU rather than KB. Dawnstrike is an explosion which would expel enemies away from you , not up from you. From a common sense approach adding KU doesn't make any sense whatsoever. To me these changes seem like proposals to satisfy people that hate KB without looking at the common sense of the change. Sure AS has KU, but its also KD since one point of the power is that it was intended to be a power that flying players used to KD other enemies that closed to melee on them. That's not really a good example to use when trying to justify changing a PBs already good albeit inconsistent KB. I agree it would be nicer if it were more consistent, but in all the years I have played one its never been an issue to me.

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"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)

I think the KnockBack being change to KnockUp/Down would be a very much welcomed change. As it is now, PB's really get some hate for all he knockback we do in large teams. I don't blame them for hating either. Solar Flare, while competent damage, fails in a sense due to the fact it scatters every mob and its cousin fifteen yards away from the original point of execution. Teams normally want mobs close and packed tightly together so they can rain epic AoE hell upon the mobs. KnockBack is a thing of the past for any melee toon, honestly. PB's, while having ranged blasts, should always be in melee range (in human form).

Though I will admit... flinging bosses around like rag dolls, while consistently annoying to others, can really give a sense of power.

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