Mystery Plans for Dominators? my speculation.

I feel like some of these could be potential surprises coming for Doms in the mildly-distant future in the supprise plans for Doms. With the understanding that Dominators: Control [some shared with trollers] + Assault [quasi but not really shared with blaster support] i propose that some sets that could reasonably appear are:

*Water Control - they've said no b/c of graphics requirements [cop out answer i think] but have recently added: bubble aura that is quite watery, the hydra powers from sewer trial also quite watery, and there are the several water based leviathan mastery powers. mix with a bit of the kinetic meelee/ dark aura graphics and i'd say you can make a water set pretty easily. Tunnel Rat i'm looking at you!

*Animal Control [as opposed to Beastly Warriors potential for MM's] - the feel of this would be pretty great. holds with swarms of small animals, stuns with charging stampedes, pets from the new four-legged rigs. customization would alter the skins of the attacks from dark, woodland, desert, swamp, fantasy, mecha, elemental.

*Gadget Control - compiled from the numerous in-game gadgetry powers to create a new set. might be a lower dmg control set if they use web grenades lol.

*Weapon/Armory Assault [with potential for customizable weapons, also altered to fit blaster secondary] i already proposed this set in Lady Jade's suggestion thread a page or two back. really really easy to make following the outline i proposed. broadsword/mace/bow/dagger set. archaic feel.

*Artillery Assault [based off above guideline from other post but includes DP or Assault Rifle mixed with other gadgets and devices, shruiken] contemporary feel.

*Dark Control and Dark Assault [obviously] cant be that far away.



eh? do you all have any speculations on the coming Dom Goodies?

Dark Control was announced yesterday at the Player Summit. They haven't said anything beyond that, and all they ever really said was in response to no powerset proliferation was that good things were coming for Dominators too. People tended to morph that very ambiguous statement into "Mystery Plans" or "big changes" and all the baseless speculation contained therein.

I am 85% certain that all they were referring to was Darkness Control already being in their pipeline, and we shouldn't be looking for much more beyond that.

As for your suggestions for sets?

- Their reasons for not doing Water Control have been made clear time and again, and calling it a cop out when you clearly don't know enough about it to say, doesn't make it a good idea. The few water like powers we have don't imply they could "easily" do more. In fact, they look bad enough that I wouldn't want them to cop out and do more based on what they did there. They used them in limited pools and rarely seen NPCs so the work wouldn't go to waste, but they level of Ugh is high enough that they'd never stand up to use as a 1-50 powerset.

- Animals? Not my thing and doesn't sound like it opens up very options for interesting Controls other than "X thing is on my FACE/LEG/ARM getitoff!"

- Cobbled sets are lame when other ATs get fresh and coherent sets designed from scratch. Cobbling 9 powers together from other sets is what got us the poorly balanced Assault sets we've had to live with for years. This point applies to the last 3 sets you suggested before Dark. Not to mention your descriptions of the Assault sets sound like Redraw Hell.

So before the inevitable "you're a big meanie for tearing him down when you don't have any ideas of your own" post, I'll pop up what I'd like to see.

It's clear I want sets designed from scratch, so that's what it would be. People get far too hung up on aesthetics when it comes to control sets, and that often ends up making for less coherent gameplay.

So lets go with those ground rules.

-Make us something that plays out remarkably different than most other Control/debuff sets we have.

-Since we're talking about Dominators, make a set that specifically accounts for how it would behave under Domination, because it would be really nice to have a set specifically designed for how Doms get played in the modern game, then adjust it for Controllers after the fact, instead of making a typical Controllery set and kind of hoping it works ok for Doms too.

- Avoid the 2 Holds 2 Immobs 1 Pet cookie cutter template. I don't dislike it, but we're coming up with something new, right? Don't paint yourself into a corner by locking down 5 of your powers early.

- MAKE IT FAST pets aren't fast, drop patch powers aren't fast, use them if you must, but make the player feel like they're not a hindrance (Carrion Vines is a perfect example, a drop patch that follows you and continues to work). Use cool new things like Non Targeted AoE, and lingering status states (like Disintegrate) so that the work of other players becomes easier, and there's better group synergy.

- Don't include self defeating mezzes, or at least give us control over which ones end up where.

The idea in my head uses some of the thinking that went into Beam Rifle, Time Manipulation, and Street Justice. Make a Control set that works on a Reverse Combo system. Instead of Builders and Finishers, use Starters and Pumpers. The Dom then chooses the mezz he wants to lay on something as the starter, then uses the pumper to boost the effects. Some starters could pump up from Single Target to AoE, Some could pump from low damage to high, others could pump up to being much less resistable or carry heavy debuffs.

The way I see such a set playing out is the Dom could lay fast quick controls on minions as needed and rapidly switch targets, or focus on the main target and pump up larger effects without being penalized for Over Control, and without feeling useless against the largest hardest targets.

lol RAWR! negative nancy rears her head.

perhaps i misspoke a little. im not saying to use all the already based liquid graphics exactly and squeeze out a half-***** set. i'm saying that there have been several steps toward a potential water set, it cant be that far off. and by 'cop out' i meant that they could quite possibly be working on it but refuse to acknowledge it til it's ready because it's easier to say 'surprise! here's a four legged rig or staff fighting or power customization that we said we couldn't do but actually did, but only it took longer cuz it was hard but we were working on it all along.' so it's easier to say 'we cant do it *snicker*'. and if you think what is in game already is full of "bad enough" and "ugh" then dont pick the set. that's why i dont play poison. but props to those who do.

you dont like animals? dont pick them. that's why i dont play demons. but there are plenty of options for making it interesting and varied. probably a lot more interesting than lots of in game sets already as far as mechanics because you're potentially adding the element of "animals."

obviously cobbled sets cant just happen. altering as far as fluidity, numbers, effects, and some graphics would have to be taken. but in the sense that Blasters now have Dark Blast and Dark Manipulation [a cobbled set], a Gadget set wouldnt be too difficult to make. redraw schmedraw. pick thorns and customize them and you redraw for every power. redraw and clipping that are two excuses that i dont believe have much merit. if you dont like it, dont choose that powerset. if you dont mind it, like plenty of players i know, then you can enjoy the set for thematic purposes.

yes it's clear you want sets designed from scratch. but it's also clear you don't value much other people's ideas enough to warrant them even the slightest merit. all your proposed mechanics could be placed into all sorts of sets, including but not limited to my proposed themed sets. i dont believe everything has to be completely new and shiny to fill voids in the players potential builds.


dont tell me what i can and cant' say. or rather, i guess you can say whatever you want lol but that doesnt make you an uber authority either. obviously im not a game designer or graphics/fx guru, it should be understood. the forums are for voicing your opinions and ideas, flawed, inexperienced, hopeful or not.

although, thank you for confirming Dark Control was on it's way.

PS- telling someone who explains why they're not a fan of your ideas for themes not to pick them, is really dismissive. Especially since you focus on basically just tossing a name out there and the aesthetics, instead of explaining why you want to play a set like that. Do a better job of explaining why Animals would be cool and play in new and interesting ways and convince me. Don't shut me down because I offered a reasonable disagreement based on what you said.

i didnt realize the tone i was using was condescending, because that's not at all what i intended when i wrote it.

i greatly appreciate the hard work and creativity of the devs, especially tunnel rat [she's my favorite evar]. ok maybe 'cop out' isnt the right word, and 'pretty easy' also wasnt the best choice of words. forgive my limited vocabulary, for the post was written in an excited fury. but they have, several times, said something cant/wont happen then happily surprised us, and i appreciate it and believe that a water set is in the works, if even on a back burner with this community tactic being used when we ask about it. im not telling them to do anything, i cant make demands, nor do they have any reason to heed any particular requests. this post was My Speculation.

again, it should be obvious that i am the average player, and this post was meant for me to be excited about potential sets in the future for Doms, an AT to which you are not the only fan.

also, i didnt say "NO NEW FRESH IDEAS!" i'd also like to believe that water control and animal control... are new.

also, you're talking about mechanics, i'm talking about themes. why would i want to play a set like that? because i want to play a set like that.

players pick sets for different reasons. i'm not saying pick one reason and ignore the rest. but rather i'm talking specifically more about themes. and you, im guessing, how the sets play out.

i can explain an animal set, but that's not what i made this thread for. i am more inclined to explain an animal control powerset in the Powerset Suggestion thread.

If this is just a speculation thread about what you think they're working on, you posted in the wrong place. You can't blame me for treating your post in the Suggestions and Ideas section like you were making suggestions and trying to discuss them on the merits or lack thereof.

What I'm trying to get at with asking you to explain your ideas is that if you want to play it, there must be reasons deeper than "because I want to" If you want to convince me the idea is good, you can and should examine what's in your head that you haven't conveyed, and try to convey it.

Sets can focus on aesthetics and be total failures in terms of function, the two are linked, and any idea for sets should examine how they'd play out together. Look at the progression we get from Dual Blades to Street Justice. DB looks great and has a lot of the same basic ideas and concepts at the root of their design. However in practice not enough work was put into the mechanics, and DB is a much less played set than it could be because of that.

We don't just want new sets for Dominators, we both want sets people will play! They have to not just look good, but be fun and useful so that people won't drop them before level 20.

maybe not suggestions but i would consider my post enough of an idea to be reasonably posted here... and i was hoping others would post their ideas too about sets they thought would be reasonable new power sets for Dominators in the not-too-distant future.

im not blaming you for anything Lemur Lad