question about brutes and scrappers

Brutes and Scrappers have the same base Defense numbers as well as the same soft and hard cap (which is equal among all ATs).

Brutes have a higher resistance cap (90%) than Scrappers (75%) but they have the same base numbers. Only a handful of Brute secondaries can get to the 90% cap on their own, and this usually requires the use of special (Tier 9 "godmodes") powers or inspirations, or is limited to 1 type of damage (for example, FA can get to 90% simply through enhancement slotting).

12% More.


Scrappers have better damage dealing capabilities over Brutes in general.

Scrappers have fairly consistent performance as well as a type of burst damage effect from criticals.


Specific high end (read: expensive, well designed and well played) builds that choose specific powerset combos can break the mold on both sides.

DM/SD, KM/SD, DB/XX, for example will all see the Scrapper version pull much farther ahead vs. the Brute version than other sets do in general.

FA is also an outlier in offense potential. Its not that FA for scrappers does less damage, but a lack of taunt aura and FA's generally squishier nature both make the set a bit more appealing on a Brute so we don't see as many FA Scrappers running around.

I'd love to see some pylon times for a top end KM, DM, or StJ /FA Scrapper.

Why would DB/XX pull much farther on scrappers like XX/SD does? I'm curious.

The number crunchers in the Scrap forums also say that Brute Fiery Melee is ahead of Scrappers even after the Fury change because the DoTs scale with Fury.

Blinding Feint benefits scrappers more then it benefits brutes... That could be the only thing in can think of.

Also, I'm pretty sure even with the DoTs being affected by fury, and extra damage from criticals more then makes up for it.

That's what I thought also, but Claws is great on Brutes. Sure it has different formulas for end/rech compared to scrappers but... Does DB really 'vastly' overperform on Scraps the way XX/SD does? I'd guess it could be worse but not to the extent of /SD.

About Fiery Melee, Bill Z Bubba said it was way superior on Brutes when they could maintain extreme fury, and that after the changes it was still better because of the DoT thingie, since now if you take a 'regular' set like Katana (only has BU, no permanent damage boost), scrappers outperform Brutes a bit like most others. Not that FM seems like a popular set for Brutes, haven't seen many ingame, just saying what the guy who did the most math I know on attack chains said.

Anyway this is just theorizing, I prefer Brutes (although my DB is a scrapper) due to the new Fury mechanic. I think the differences are so small unless you're soloing a Pylon that it's mostly a matter of preference, although I also like the fact that Brutes have Taunt - even on my farming build SS/Fire I can use it on a team to take teammates out of trouble, he just isn't good enough to be a main tank. Although actually he did tank part of a LGFT when the Tanker was with the other half of the team because he kills so damn fast it's not funny, I find his damage output insane, he's built for extreme recharge only.

Anyway I love Brutes, I know SD underperforms and maybe KM too (hate the animations anyway, personal preference), but since I may do a DB Brute someday I got curious, my DB scrapper is probably the only one I'm taking to 50 after the DM/DA one I made years ago. I have a 35 FM/SD too (did her when fm/sd and elec/sd were the main farmers but I quit the game shortly after) but I use her only for marketeering and winning costume contests because I put so much effort in concept and stuff lol, got 500 mil the other day (love Freedom, 4 am EST and big CC in Atlas ).

IMO yes, on a top end build DB Scrapper has the potential to generate about 20-30% better ST DPS.

Claws was adjusted for the Brute AT, and I don't believe that DB was.


You'll need to provide a quote.

That and the fact Greater Fire Sword on Scrappers isn't as strong as on a Brute:

Scrapper Greater Fire Sword
Brute Greater Fire Sword
That is the only difference, no change to recharge/end cost/etc.

No it wasn't adjusted, I'm just curious. Is it all because of BF?


Oh this isn't valid anymore - the 'way superior' statement. This was based on his calculations before the Fury changes for ST DPS, that Fiery Melee was a real outlier when he compared the Brute and Scrapper primaries. After the Fury changes I asked him if it was still valid and he said it was still better but not anything significant like before.

Anyway, here's the link but that's before the Fury changes, so Fiery Melee isn't like that anymore: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...70&postcount=1

And here on the top end chains with Gloom and IOs but still, before Fury changes: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...79&postcount=1