Suggested Changes for StJ for Stalkers
By
BrandX,
Posted on: 2011-10-10 09:02 in Suggestions and Ideas
Can we add "Have Placate give one Combo Point" to these suggestions?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Hmn, could work. I'm no number cruncher, and I have no idea what iterations stuff went through during Beta. Would be interesting to know, though...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
I like all of those.
Here's an alternate: Replace Heavy Blow with Rib Cracker. (from a thread in the Stalker forum, not my original idea)
*edit* Yes, Placate should give *at least* one combo point. Is there any power in the game that's more of a 'set up' maneuver than Placate? If Combat Readiness isn't coming back then Placate should add the full three combo points, in my opinion.
Quote:
Given Placate's very specific role (i.e. you can't use it effectively unless there's only one mob left OR someone else to draw aggro) I think that's pretty fair.
|
Originally Posted by SaintTzu
I like all of those.
Here's an alternate: Replace Heavy Blow with Rib Cracker. (from a thread in the Stalker forum, not my original idea) *edit* Yes, Placate should give *at least* one combo point. Is there any power in the game that's more of a 'set up' maneuver than Placate? If Combat Readiness isn't coming back then Placate should add the full three combo points, in my opinion. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
Your suggestion is incomplete. If Stalkers got Combat Readiness, which sets your combo level to 3, then the 2 combo points granted by AS would be redundant in a CR->AS chain.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
1) Replace Build up with Combat Readiness to restore that part of the set to Stalkers
|
That might not be a problem necessarily, since you could just skip taking AS altogether and follow CR with Crushing Uppercut. I don't know if you'll have an easy time convincing the devs to make AS completely redundant in the set in this way, despite the fact that some would love such a change.
I suppose you could try to argue that it would set SJ apart from other Stalker sets to not be reliant on AS for a big hit from hide. Like I said though, I don't see that going over well.
One alternative would be to make AS a finisher instead of a combo builder, but that would mean CR->AS would (presumably) do more damage than a standard BU->AS from other sets, and I doubt that'd go over either.
Offhand I don't see an easy solution really. I would love to see Placate generate one combo point though.
I think EVERY power in Street Justice for every AT should increase combo level, except finishers of course. Build Up, Taunt, Confront, and Placate should all increase combo level by 1. There's a sort of precedent for this: Claws powers get a 20% discount on end and recharge from what the damage formula would have them at, including Claws' Build Up.
Also, the Rib Cracker animation should be an alternate animation for Shin Breaker for Stalkers.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Quote:
The 2 points in AS for StJ is pretty redundant anyway. Outside of the typical BU->AS from Hide, using AS mid-combat is nearly never viable, certainly not solo. If CR->AS as a finisher was truly a problem, then surely they could reduce the base-line AS damage a little to compensate? I personally don't see a problem with it being CR-AS anyway, but then again I'm no number cruncher, and don't know what the follow through of that would be.|
Originally Posted by Supernumiphone
Your suggestion is incomplete. If Stalkers got Combat Readiness, which sets your combo level to 3, then the 2 combo points granted by AS would be redundant in a CR->AS chain.
That might not be a problem necessarily, since you could just skip taking AS altogether and follow CR with Crushing Uppercut. I don't know if you'll have an easy time convincing the devs to make AS completely redundant in the set in this way, despite the fact that some would love such a change. I suppose you could try to argue that it would set SJ apart from other Stalker sets to not be reliant on AS for a big hit from hide. Like I said though, I don't see that going over well. One alternative would be to make AS a finisher instead of a combo builder, but that would mean CR->AS would (presumably) do more damage than a standard BU->AS from other sets, and I doubt that'd go over either. Offhand I don't see an easy solution really. I would love to see Placate generate one combo point though. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Vanden
I think EVERY power in Street Justice for every AT should increase combo level, except finishers of course. Build Up, Taunt, Confront, and Placate should all increase combo level by 1. There's a sort of precedent for this: Claws powers get a 20% discount on end and recharge from what the damage formula would have them at, including Claws' Build Up.
Also, the Rib Cracker animation should be an alternate animation for Shin Breaker for Stalkers. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
I took a quick pass at trying to modify AS to make it a finisher so that a CU->AS would do the same damage as BU->AS does now.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
If CR->AS as a finisher was truly a problem, then surely they could reduce the base-line AS damage a little to compensate? I personally don't see a problem with it being CR-AS anyway, but then again I'm no number cruncher, and don't know what the follow through of that would be.
|
Current:
AS damage: 139
Critical: 250.2
Total: 389.2
+Build up (80%): 700.5
Modified:
AS combo level 0: 133.4
AS combo level 1: 140
AS combo level 2: 149.4
AS combo level 3: 166.7
Critical: 300.3
Total at combo level 3: 467
+CR (50%): 700.5
Some things worth noting with this setup...using AS after Placate (with no Build Up or CR) does 389.2 damage currently, would do 433.7 at combo level 0, or 467 at combo level 3 under this proposed setup. So AS would be more attractive to use mid-fight if you could get it off. Too good? I'm not sure.
In order to get the damage from CR->AS equal to BU->AS, the base damage has to be set higher to offset the lower +damage from CR as opposed to BU, so this setup would ramp up faster in the presence of damage buffs. Probably too much so. I don't know of any way to fix that though, other than having AS simply do less damage when used with CR than it does currently with BU. So it's a real problem.
If the cost of getting CR was having AS do less damage than other sets (when both are using their respective damage boosting powers, base damage could be equal), would you consider that a worthwhile tradeoff? I suspect a lot of people would not be willing to give up a full damage hit from AS.
Having played Street Justice on both Scrappers and Stalkers, I can safely say (in my opinion, of course) that the version Stalkers get is inferior to the 'standard' version.
This isn't to do with some patently false gripe like 'Stalkers are rubbish'. I know they are not.
However, there are elements of the Stalker sets that get in the way with Street Justice.
Namely:
-Lack of one of the low level builder attacks make getting level 3 combos hard
-Assassin's Strike +2 builder pointless when the attack is nigh impossible to use outside of Hide
-Replacing Combat Readiness with Build Up
So, the main point of Street Justice is the Combo points system? Ergo, these are the suggested changes;
1) Replace Build up with Combat Readiness to restore that part of the set to Stalkers
2) Increase the time until combo's 'time out' to make up for the lack of Rib Cracker
I feel those two changes would go a long way to making Stalkers Street Justice feel on par with all the other variants.