Awe'd by human-form solo'ing AV. Now wantz one.
Well I doubt you'll be able to solo level 53 AV's without more damage output... I don't think you'll have the recharge for my attack chain (s blast>g well>s blast> e drain) and your enhancement values for those attacks are sort of poor. I know you don't want to take forms, but if you're looking for the most 'bang' for your buck, on your budget Tri Form will be much more powerful.
Eclipse needs accuracy slotting. The best way to slot it is with 2 Nucleolus Exposures (Enhances Damage Resistance and Accuracy) and 2 recharge IO's. I know you're chasing the s/l defense but there are better ways to get it.
You're definitely going to want Unchain Essence, it's an awesome power and skipping it will cost you a lot of AOE damage. Stygian Return is also nice to have, it has a nice invulnerability period that will give you time to turn your toggles back on, it will rez you to full health and endurance if there are enough enemies around (which there usually will be) and it's pretty much always ready if/when you need it.
Shadow Slip to me is a waste of a power choice, but I just don't care for travel powers... It would be sort of ok to take it on a Tri Form build for me since they tend to have more 'free' power picks, but you're already skipping important things and picking it up.
The Kismet tohit IO isn't really necessary, Mire already gives you a massive tohit bonus. I guess it can't hurt, but if you take it out of combat jumping and put your stealth IO in sprint, you can three slot an LOTG set (7.5%, def/end, def/end/rech) for a regen bonus and better defense values. You'll hit the cap on the 1.12% HP bonus, but I would honestly drop s bolt down to 1 slot and use those elsewhere.
Stygian Circle is overslotted and slotted for the wrong thing. Either put one Perf. Shifter +end in there, or 2 Efficacy Adaptors in there for the HP bonus.
The recharge bonus in Orbiting death is nice, but I don't think it's worth the crappy endurance values. You're going to be hurting in prolonged fights without a lot of Stygian Circle food.
I guess I can see why you want all these resistance toggles (for AV's?) but I don't even think you'll have the endurance to run them against single targets so it's sort of futile. You might as well drop Tough for Kick, I think you'd get more use out of the extra Kinetic Combat set.
Gravimetric Snare seems overslotted, if anything I would use it as a mule for a purple immobilize set. It shouldn't be in your attack chain anyways, and frankly you'd probably get more use out of Provoke.
Honestly I tried to rework your build but I still hate it. I can't say I recommend playing Human Only if you don't plan to invest in all 4 purple damage sets, at the least. It doesn't become crazy awesome until you've reached a certain point of investment.
Thank you for the honest critque. I suppose my crafting of PB has mislead me a touch (or a mile) as it concerns putting a WS together. Let me refine what it is I'll do with this toon. I actually don't see myself attmepting to solo any AVs. I find it boring. However, I do like teaming and solo'ing missions at times. I really just need something that's durable and effective. I'll rework the build some and get back here with it.
When there is no room left in Hell, the Dead shall walk the earth.
You can see THB's build in his AV-soloing post. It's loaded up with purples and out of the reach of most players. He spent a ton to get it to that point, but... maybe he didn't have to spend quite so much?
Below is a more reasonable build. I pulled all the crazy-expensive stuff, but left several purple pieces in (no more unreasonably-priced than Kinetic Combats or LotGs). Net result? Several billion inf saved and not THAT much effectiveness lost. You could add in the big procs at a cost of another 1.5B or so and get back a chunk of what was lost, but I wouldn't say that it's necessary.
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1561;715;1430;HEX;| |78DA6594594F1361148667DAA9B5A508A5144AA1502A9B2D141AF19A2844234228E| |27265C800031D2D85B405DC228B21718D972EC40BFF80376AF48768F446A33FC0E5| |DEA59ECEFB82133BC9E4F9E69CEF3DDBCC37E397477CCF4F6C0E29EA81E1AC5E284| |C9FD7F3858C3E67B8A7664D23376B28E5CB2D77DBAE677A627EDEC815CC55237976| |7126AF67A78F89B2D8BAE71F31FEF31F5DC9EBFE93B98C913772C5E4EEC29B5E5AC| |A26A7960D63AEDA5A1E3717324533B7E0B79EC6F59CB9BC92D58BE652AEC6B28C19| |125D7298CB4A480AEA957BCBA7F02A29CA33414A5356CA3695B623B28868CAAA8F2| |6A5E4501B617384C806704DF638A1D39C8B88A5AD82FBAE926BE0FE6BE0B6685C88| |ABB91E0ABAC5F708F43E269F80BE1D3026D374238FEA4E20CE0152159F07F19C9EB| |42026BE49B0F6343905DE92DC5556572557D54F87A5F7294E8B75BFF05CF71BACFF| |4396C02BA2AD460D8EEAA06AD91A6AC900E8905A6A584B0D6B09B196106B09B3963| |B12CF8FBD2EFF5B8735CFF03BB0E53DF9016C8DA0D776F2B66803D40698A795795A| |9927CA3CD100FA8B06C1EBA20D62064A30CA77267537B2B746F6D6CEDEDAD9DB5DD| |1353167D33A6C0737C84D720BECB809A6B631BB7BA26DE63B6F7E819C1DAFC89760| |D76BF20D784334117E5B9151C4E93A05768F9363E404785F346DACB1ED236677E81| |3F999FC02C687A0890F836199418CDAD8227D59B0F7226982A90C7909DC90BC9D98| |A9D69940EFBD29B06F907C80BDFD61F4E7977C3D9C790F67DEC799F773E601D9934| |04D6A6247F401F13D05EBC597E4394E52BF2E750CF0DD0EF07CB468B6F31EE63761| |D9AC7DA5B8DD5F924B19A8B0A42A2C872B2C83159651BB258E6AC634DB9FC68389A| |4B5BD3F8DA2B26A4FAD523E97568567B4BD13AE789AF1157FF58A8671D43E68BEFF| |B3A9EAA86AFD39B47398CC37FBFE1EECFF61B7F124A4BD6535F25EB0AD75DB7AC6B| |69E946398E2FA2FFBFBE35E| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Quote:
What version of Mid's is that please?|
Originally Posted by streetlight
You can THB's build in his AV-soloing post. It's loaded up with purples and out of the reach of most players. He spent a ton to get it to that point, but... maybe he didn't have to spend quite so much?
Below is a more reasonable build. I pulled all the crazy-expensive stuff, but left several purple pieces in (no more unreasonably-priced than Kinetic Combats or LotGs). Net result? Several billion inf saved and not THAT much effectiveness lost. You could add in the big procs at a cost of another 1.5B or so and get back a chunk of what was lost, but I wouldn't say that it's necessary. |
Why can't I keep Mid's version straight? I just deleted and reinstalled yesterday. Your above build won't load. I get an error saying it was exported by a newer version... newer than yesterday's?
Thanks for a less expensive version, if I ever get it so I can view it
. Organicide can afford THB's build (ebil marketeer type) but I would be hard pressed to acquire even one of those sets.Edit: re Mid's - nothing yet another uninstall, reinstall & update can't cure
Current Mids is v1.951
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Quote:
I've been through the transistion from a PB to a WS. They're two totally different beast. A warshade is very enemy dependent, needs lots of recharge and damage. Circle makes up for the endurance (if you're doing your job.) By the way, any advice two headed boy gives on a human-only warshade is worth taking. Me and dechs' were not hitting anything while THB crushed +4x8 (or so) rikti mobs like they were eggs. He makes a monster of a human form, to say the LEAST even if you're not looking to solo AVs. |
Originally Posted by Organicide
Thank you for the honest critque. I suppose my crafting of PB has mislead me a touch (or a mile) as it concerns putting a WS together. Let me refine what it is I'll do with this toon. I actually don't see myself attmepting to solo any AVs. I find it boring. However, I do like teaming and solo'ing missions at times. I really just need something that's durable and effective. I'll rework the build some and get back here with it.
|
I'll be working on a human form build soon so when it's done I'll re-post it on here.
I have to admit, I don't think I'm man enough to run a WS. It stings a liitle to admit this because 1) Pride 2) I lack the expertise and 3) Resources to pull off a decent build. With some regret I'm going to shelve the WS for the time being. I won't say never to a WS but I can say, "not right now".
I apologize to you that have posted here for wasting your collective time.
When there is no room left in Hell, the Dead shall walk the earth.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Organicide
I have to admit, I don't think I'm man enough to run a WS. It stings a liitle to admit this because 1) Pride 2) I lack the expertise and 3) Resources to pull off a decent build. With some regret I'm going to shelve the WS for the time being. I won't say never to a WS but I can say, "not right now".
I apologize to you that have posted here for wasting your collective time. |
Oh man, that's the last thing I wanted to happen. It's just a bummer that you don't want to try playing Tri Form, the MFing Warshade really excels on any budget and it's a great way to familiarize yourself with the Archetype. Heck, I was Tri Form for quite a while, and I would suggest anyone who's new to Warshades play to 50 and start IOing themselves that way.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by streetlight
You can see THB's build in his AV-soloing post. It's loaded up with purples and out of the reach of most players. He spent a ton to get it to that point, but... maybe he didn't have to spend quite so much?
Below is a more reasonable build. I pulled all the crazy-expensive stuff, but left several purple pieces in (no more unreasonably-priced than Kinetic Combats or LotGs). Net result? Several billion inf saved and not THAT much effectiveness lost. You could add in the big procs at a cost of another 1.5B or so and get back a chunk of what was lost, but I wouldn't say that it's necessary. |
Unfortunately it looks like you don't have the new version of Mids yet? It's silly to pull Kinetic Combats and LOTGs, for one I doubt you could get the recharge for my attack chain without the LOTG's without severely sacrificing survivability (which you've already done by pulling Kinetic Combats) and enhancement values in said attack chain would be lacking without the slotting used. The FOTG -res proc in Orbiting Death and the purple procs in my attacks are also contributing a lot to my damage output- I doubt this would have been doable without them.
Quote:
Check your Mids for updates. Newer versions can open older versions, but older versions can't open newer versions. My guess is you haven't updated since the initial i21 update...|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Unfortunately it looks like you don't have the new version of Mids yet? It's silly to pull Kinetic Combats and LOTGs, for one I doubt you could get the recharge for my attack chain without the LOTG's without severely sacrificing survivability (which you've already done by pulling Kinetic Combats) and enhancement values in said attack chain would be lacking without the slotting used. The FOTG -res proc in Orbiting Death and the purple procs in my attacks are also contributing a lot to my damage output- I doubt this would have been doable without them.
|
For reference, newer versions never have problems opening older version's data chunks. Older versions of Mids, on the other hand, cannot open newer datachunks. So if you ever find yourself unable to open a datachunk, you're likely outdated.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by streetlight
Check your Mids for updates. Newer versions can open older versions, but older versions can't open newer versions. My guess is you haven't updated since the initial i21 update...
For reference, newer versions never have problems opening older version's data chunks. Older versions of Mids, on the other hand, cannot open newer datachunks. So if you ever find yourself unable to open a datachunk, you're likely outdated. |
Ah my mistake, didn't realize there had been another update.
Looking at this build now and I have to say that while it would be fine for general performance, I don't think it would be able to achieve similar results as my build. I see the kinetic combats and LOTG's have been retained (I was under the impresison they weren't?) but the lack of purple procs in attacks, significantly worse enhancement values for key powers, and removing the res debuff from Orbiting death is going to make it difficult or impossible to take down an AV solo, much less a level 53 AV.
Also there is a significant decrease in recharge which I don't think would be enough for my attack chain- But again if it was it would still be much less impressive (due to poor enhancement values.) AIB's Dwarf Form would do more ST damage than this build- In fact a Tri Form build on the same budget's Dwarf would probably be doing more ST damage and far more AoE Damage. Human Form doesn't become superior until you make the right investment.
I forgot to switch the slotting in Absorption and Gravity Shield, so that's one thing to change, for sure.
Like I said above, it isn't exactly your build and won't match the performance. Of course a build should be better if you have an effectively unlimited budget. However, mine is something like 80% cheaper and at least 80% as effective. Pareto effiency was the goal. One easy change would replace the Cleaving Blow Dam/End with either a FotG or Armageddon proc, picking up a not-insignificant bump in cost and capability, but still avoiding the lion's share of expense.
The attack chain should be something like GW > SB > ED > SB. I think there is a 0.1s pause after ED, but it works. Emanation can pick up +100% recharge for 5 seconds out of ~14 to close any gaps, assuming you've got some fodder around when it is used. Utility powers will pop in during any extended fight (and a few typically at the start), of course, which will disrupt the attack chain from time to time.
There are those of us that haven't played Kheldians for years because they can't/won't handle the form dancing required. Personally I am in the 'can't' group. Too much to track and do in combat.
For me the promise of a Good human form is enough to add to the many alts. I wouldn't be considering the AT if there hadn't been a buzz about human only form lately. It doesn't have to solo +4 AVs or task forces to be fun or viable. I understand what you are saying about relative performance but not being god-like is standard for all my other characters, why would my WS be different?
Quote:
To answer your question: It shouldn't. |
Originally Posted by Gunpowder Witch
For me the promise of a Good human form is enough to add to the many alts. I wouldn't be considering the AT if there hadn't been a buzz about human only form lately. It doesn't have to solo +4 AVs or task forces to be fun or viable. I understand what you are saying about relative performance but not being god-like is standard for all my other characters, why would my WS be different?
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I was just basing my responses off of the topic of the thread, and didn't want the OP to be misled into thinking that just because my Human Form Warshade solos +3 AV's, that "Human Form Warshades solo AV's," without taking budget into account. I've just been suggesting Tri Form play as 1.) I feel it is best to have a feel for the full scope of the Archetype and B.) Tri Form is much more effective on a smaller budget, so I thought it was important to mention in terms of "most bang for your buck."
Quote:
As an aside I just wanted to make a point to clarify this- Dechs was not on his Warshade- Our Warshades together are like cheating. He was playing a new alt for the missions Bionut is talking about. Just wanted to make sure that no one misinterpreted that as a slight to the original MFing 'Shade. |
Originally Posted by Bionut911
By the way, any advice two headed boy gives on a human-only warshade is worth taking. Me and dechs' were not hitting anything while THB crushed +4x8 (or so) rikti mobs like they were eggs. He makes a monster of a human form, to say the LEAST even if you're not looking to solo AVs.
|
Quote:
Warshades take a very different approach to playing them, just like PBs. Human-form WSs are even more eccentric, but that doesn't mean they can't be fun. I personally LOVE mine and highly recommend people looking for a challenge or just for something different to try it out. I made her human form because that was something I felt fit the character, and she does just fine for whatever I try. Please note, I don't try to solo 53-54 AVs. I was pounding Requiem last night, but only as an EB. That's my choice. I don't plan on buying multiple purple sets, and I accept that I'm not going to be able to solo everything. |
Originally Posted by Organicide
I have to admit, I don't think I'm man enough to run a WS. It stings a liitle to admit this because 1) Pride 2) I lack the expertise and 3) Resources to pull off a decent build. With some regret I'm going to shelve the WS for the time being. I won't say never to a WS but I can say, "not right now".
I apologize to you that have posted here for wasting your collective time. |
That brings me to the two real central points of warshades. First, you need teammates around you to really reach your peak. Having a full team will often juice your damage and damage resistance through the roof; ITFs become a blast, since you're going to see major boosts to your resists and damage with teammates, especially for negative energy (and that's a big part of the ITF and Rommy). You might also get some light mez protection if you have a troller or dom on your team, but don't count on it too much.
Second, you need enemy bodies around you to play with your whole repertoire of powers. You need living enemies to get the most gain from Sunless Mire, Essence Drain and Eclipse; you need recently defeated enemies for Unchain Essence, Stygian Circle and Stygian Return. This is where finesse, experience and planning come in handy. Try binding Unchain Essence to a hot button, so you can fire it whenever the opportunity is right. It's the biggest AoE attack you've got short of your nova (and it's close!), but there's no crash.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is, don't give up on human-form Warshades just because your planned build won't be able to do something that 99% of WSs currently in the game can't do anyway. They're fun, they're exciting to play, and they can surprise you with what that they can be capable of. Mez protection is the big weakness, but that can be mitigated even without going to purple IO sets. Heck, a handful of Break Frees work pretty well too.
Was poking around on the kheld forums and saw that a gentleman had solo'd Bobcat on his all HUMAN WS. I currently have an all humman PB that I've IO'd out and enjoy a good deal. I don't really care for shape-shifting so all human WS roughing up a 53 AV was an eye opener. I'd like some on you WS vets to take a look-see at this build and tell me if you can see any room to improve. Only rule is I will not be taking any forms. Thanks.
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...20700CD79FD53C
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.95
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Science Warshade
Primary Power Set: Umbral Blast
Secondary Power Set: Umbral Aura
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Bolt
- (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (3) Decimation - Damage/Endurance
- (5) Decimation - Damage/Recharge
- (5) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Level 1: Absorption- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
Level 2: Gravimetric Snare- (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage
- (7) Decimation - Damage/Endurance
- (7) Decimation - Damage/Recharge
- (9) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (9) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Level 4: Gravity Shield- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (11) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (11) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (13) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
Level 6: Shadow Blast- (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage
- (13) Decimation - Damage/Endurance
- (15) Decimation - Damage/Recharge
- (15) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (17) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Level 8: Combat Jumping- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (48) Kismet - Accuracy +6%
- (50) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth
Level 10: Boxing- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (17) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (19) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (19) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 12: Sunless Mire- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (21) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (21) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (23) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (23) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (48) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
Level 14: Shadow Cloak- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 16: Twilight Shield- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (25) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (25) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (27) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
Level 18: Gravity Well- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (27) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (29) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (29) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 20: Essence Drain- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (31) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (31) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (31) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (33) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing
- (33) Touch of the Nictus - Healing
Level 22: Stygian Circle- (A) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
- (33) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
- (34) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (34) Doctored Wounds - Heal
- (34) Doctored Wounds - Recharge
Level 24: Tough- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (36) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (36) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (36) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
Level 26: Shadow Slip- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 28: Inky Aspect- (A) Stupefy - Accuracy/Endurance
Level 30: Gravitic Emanation- (A) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
- (37) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge
- (37) Absolute Amazement - Stun
- (37) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
- (39) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
Level 32: Dark Extraction- (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
- (42) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
- (42) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance
- (42) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 35: Weave- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
Level 38: Eclipse- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
- (43) Reactive Armor - Endurance/Recharge
- (43) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (43) Reactive Armor - Resistance
Level 41: Orbiting Death- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (45) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (45) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (45) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (50) Endurance Reduction IO
Level 44: Maneuvers- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
Level 47: Hasten- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (48) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 49: Starless Step- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
------------Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Dark SustenanceLevel 1: Shadow Step
- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest- (A) Empty
Level 4: Ninja RunLevel 10: Shadow Recall
- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
Level 2: Swift- (A) Run Speed IO
Level 2: Health- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (40) Miracle - +Recovery
Level 2: Hurdle- (A) Jumping IO
Level 2: Stamina- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (39) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
- (39) Performance Shifter - EndMod
------------When there is no room left in Hell, the Dead shall walk the earth.