I'd definitely recommend trying to get another slot (or two) into Resilience as it's now 9.38 res to all (instead of 5 1/2ish res to smethal + 7 1/2 toxic).
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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I've got to be honest, that while DM is a great choice for single target damage, a nice self-heal in your attack chain, and a to-hit wrapped in all your attacks, I would not pair it up with regen unless you're absolutely certain you just want regen as your secondary.
willpower can provide you all the things that regen can without all the downside and is still greatly supported by DM with siphon life as an active heal. The passive levels of regen are much much better with willpower and a full saturated rise to the challenge provides instant healing levels of regen without having to worry about it wearing off or waiting on a recharge time.
It's something to consider before you go through the effort of leveling the character, if you have not done so already.
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This part bugs me. Mid's (granted it isn't I21 updated but I don't recall that changing things) says regen scrap with 3 standard IOs in all regen powers and one IO in health, no IH has regen at 49.5 hp/s. With IH on, it shows 138.5 hp/s. WP has with 1 in range one RttC as 42.3 hp/s, and fully saturated as 72.7 hp/s. WP has all of it's healing/+hp powers 3 slotted with standard IOs and health with one IO.|
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
(clip) The passive levels of regen are much much better with willpower and a full saturated rise to the challenge provides instant healing levels of regen without having to worry about it wearing off or waiting on a recharge time.
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So Regen is 49.5-138.5 hp/s (IH off-IH on)
WP is 42.3-72.7 hp/s
Since dull pain is very easily perma, so it was left on.
Without it, regen is 31-86.7 hp/s (IH off-IH on)
So yes, WP has additional tricks to survive, but it doesn't out do base regen, and it sure as hell doesn't get up to IH levels of regeneration. As for not worrying about RttC having it's effects wear off, well you defeat enemies, right? That makes it wear off. Agains bosses or AVs it's noticeable.
So I am not saying WP is bad, or regen is l33t, I'm just saying it IS the best set at pure regeneration rates all IO investments being equal.
I'm not going to bother even discussing slotting other than saying I compare both sets fully slotted to the best of their abilities and without incarnate abilites taken into consideration.
Just comparing two builds I made one KM/Regen and another Claws/WP.
With IH on the build reaches 161 hp/sec which is very nice and out of the reach of WP to attain. Dull pain is included.
The recharge in this build is IH at 198 second with 90 second duration, which means that the level of regen is up less than half of gameplay not including -recharge or +recharge bonus other than from hasten and IOs.
Without IH the passive regen is at 64 hp/second
Now looking at a WP
The build I have has WP at 61.4 regen with just one target in range on RTC. It's not often you're fighting with a solitary target in range and I usually judge my base as 2-3 targets in range. With just 3 targets in range the regen goes up to 70.4 hp/sec
And with RTC fully saturated with 10 targets which happens frequently especially on TF/SFs and trials regen goes to 102.7 hp/sec
Even if you completely maxed out the regen potential (Ignoring dimishing returns as much as possible) for both regen and willpower the numbers would still be relatively within the same distance of each other.
69 hp/per second difference in regen for 90 seconds provides no significant advantage to regen over willpower by any means. I'll take the easy to softcap s/l defense, 50% s/l resist and adequate other resists, and "near" IH regen capability without a duration or recharge time.
Paired with the -to hit from RTC and the -to hit from dark attacks, I think WP is a far more solid choice as a secondary.
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I would agree... and yet, the last character I made was a DM/Regen |
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
[snip] I think WP is a far more solid choice as a secondary.
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/WP and /Regen don't have similar playstyles at all (even though /WP seems to be a remake of /regen). /WP has only the T9 as a clickie, while /Regen is all about the clicks.
/Regen definitely isn't a horrible set, though. /WP can just be IOed out fairly easily to have incredibly all-around performance.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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I agree with you completely.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
I would agree... and yet, the last character I made was a DM/Regen
/WP and /Regen don't have similar playstyles at all (even though /WP seems to be a remake of /regen). /WP has only the T9 as a clickie, while /Regen is all about the clicks. /Regen definitely isn't a horrible set, though. /WP can just be IOed out fairly easily to have incredibly all-around performance. |
It's the clickable nature of regen that really is it's core weakness though. Without recharge debuff resistance a very crucial part of regen's mitigation is seriously compromised. The unforunate thing is that -recharge is a very common debuff.
All of regen's heals, top tier powers (MoG, Shadow Meld, IH), even mitigation from the primary set such as knockdowns, stuns, etc are significantly hindered by -recharge. WP doesn't suffer any effect on the secondary side from -recharge other than strength of will and resurgance which aren't crucial powers to the secondaries' success.
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I would not even count Resurgence as far as being crucial to the set's success, and Strength of Will is unaffected by Recharge buffs or debuffs of any kind, IIRC. Unless you get detoggled and then have to eat a bunch of Recharge debuffs (which would only turn off Rise to the Challenge), I would say Recharge debuffs have a nearly zero effect on Willpower's success (not counting mitigation provided by whatever Primary).
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Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
I agree with you completely.
It's the clickable nature of regen that really is it's core weakness though. Without recharge debuff resistance a very crucial part of regen's mitigation is seriously compromised. The unforunate thing is that -recharge is a very common debuff. All of regen's heals, top tier powers (MoG, Shadow Meld, IH), even mitigation from the primary set such as knockdowns, stuns, etc are significantly hindered by -recharge. WP doesn't suffer any effect on the secondary side from -recharge other than strength of will and resurgance which aren't crucial powers to the secondaries' success. |
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
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Yes, that's exactly what I said. Other than SoW being affected by recharge, I knew you could use recharge enhancements and it wasn't affected by haste, didn't realize it wasn't affected by -recharge as well.
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Originally Posted by ArchGemini
I would not even count Resurgence as far as being crucial to the set's success, and Strength of Will is unaffected by Recharge buffs or debuffs of any kind, IIRC. Unless you get detoggled and then have to eat a bunch of Recharge debuffs (which would only turn off Rise to the Challenge), I would say Recharge debuffs have a nearly zero effect on Willpower's success (not counting mitigation provided by whatever Primary).
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Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Miss Scotland: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (5) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (7) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (25) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 1: Fast Healing- (A) Healing IO
- (3) Healing IO
- (15) Healing IO
Level 2: Reconstruction- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (9) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (9) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (11) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (27) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 4: Quick Recovery- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (7) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (17) Endurance Modification IO
Level 6: Shadow Maul- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (11) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (13) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (13) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (15) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 8: Siphon Life- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (17) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (19) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (19) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (21) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (48) Healing IO
Level 10: Dull Pain- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (21) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (23) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (23) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (25) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 12: Hasten- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (27) Recharge Reduction IO
- (29) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 14: Boxing- (A) Empty
Level 16: Tough- (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
Level 18: Integration- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (33) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (33) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (33) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge
Level 20: Weave- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (34) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (34) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 22: Resilience- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
Level 24: Super Speed- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
Level 26: Dark Consumption- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (31) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (31) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 28: Instant Healing- (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
- (39) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
- (39) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
- (40) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (40) Doctored Wounds - Recharge
Level 30: Soul Drain- (A) Armageddon - Damage
- (34) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
- (37) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (37) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
- (39) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
Level 32: Midnight Grasp- (A) Hecatomb - Damage
- (42) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
- (42) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (43) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
- (43) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
Level 35: Combat Jumping- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (36) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (37) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
Level 38: Moment of Glory- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (43) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
- (45) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 41: Dark Blast- (A) Apocalypse - Damage
- (42) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
- (46) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge
- (46) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (46) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
Level 44: Shadow Meld- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
- (48) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (48) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 47: Maneuvers- (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
Level 49: Revive- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx ReserveLevel 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest- (A) Empty
Level 1: Critical HitLevel 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift
- (A) Empty
Level 2: Hurdle- (A) Empty
Level 2: Health- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (5) Miracle - Heal
- (31) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
- (40) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (45) Miracle - +Recovery
Level 2: Stamina