Hi, my fire controller went /cold, but I have /thermal corruptors and masterminds. I like the build, and I kept all the same powers. Conserve power does not show in the mids total what your recovery will be when activated (I deleted the power for giggles and the Mids total didn't change. It shows your base enhancement bonuses.) I shave some slots from stamina, I shaved from smoke and Flashfire. Please, on a conroller power, don't slot a chance for knockback in a targetted AoE Stun. It can drive teammates crazy, and I play a storm defender as a primary character.
Basically I tried to squeeze some features out of the build for more recharge, more mezz protection, and marginal psionic damage resistance. High recharge is desired for buildup, conserve power, cinders, forge, the big thermal debuffs; even fire imps, crave a speedy recharge. Your build showed some SOs in your level 50 build which I replaced with IOs. The two slotted powers show recharge benefits of 84% enhancement instead of SO level 66%.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.93
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troller forum: Level 50 Technology Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- BasGaze-Slow%(A), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(3), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(11)
Level 1: Warmth -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(5), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(7), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(13), Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(25), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(25), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(27)
Level 4: Cauterize -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(17), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 8: Smoke -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(9), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(37), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(50), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(50)
Level 10: Thermal Shield -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(13), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(15), ImpArm-ResPsi(45)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(17), ImpArm-ResDam(45), ImpSkn-Status(46)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(19)
Level 16: Super Jump -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 18: Cinders -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Rchg/Hold(19), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21), Lock-%Hold(23), Lock-Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 20: Flashfire -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(40), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(42), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(42), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(42)
Level 22: Kick -- ExStrk-Dam%(A)
Level 24: Tough -- Aegis-Psi/Status(A)
Level 26: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 28: Forge -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(31), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(31), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(37), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(43)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(34), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(34), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(36), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 35: Heat Exhaustion -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 38: Melt Armor -- LdyGrey-DefDeb(A), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg(39), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(39), LdyGrey-%Dam(39), LdyGrey-DefDeb/EndRdx(40), LdyGrey-Rchg/EndRdx(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(45), S'fstPrt-ResKB(46), HO:Ribo(46)
Level 47: Hot Feet -- Erad-%Dam(A), Erad-Dmg(48), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(33)
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Appreciate the feedback boss! This build is pretty defense heavy too, so I need to incorporate more damage too for solo goodness. Recharge and end are a concern as well, but on which toon aren't they? 
Again, thanks. I'll let you know how it turns out!
EZ
I have a certain view of controllers . . . that they should focus on controlling rather than defense. Defense is nice after your powers are slotted up to be effective, but I dislike sacrificing the function of powers in order to slot up for Defense. On teams, controllers should let the tank go in to grab aggro, and then apply controls -- Defense isn't needed most of the time. A Fire controller is designed to do melee damage after controlling, with Flashfire, Fire Cages and Hot Feet as key powers. Therm is a kind of mixed bag secondary, with part of Empathy, Sonic and Rad. Rather than slotting for Defense, I like to slot powers to be effective, and go mostly for Recharge and Recovery bonuses.
I have a number of issues with your build. Obviously it was built to maximize all kinds of Defense rather than to maximize your ability to be an effective controller. To me, any Fire Controller that does not take Hot Feet early and slot it up for Damage and EndRdx is a failed build in my book (with the possible exception of a Fire/TA).
Char: You have 21% accuracy. That ain't gonna hit much. This is a frequently used power that provides both control and damage. You stack it on bosses and it holds foes missed by the AoE controls. I would stay with Baz Gaze, but use the three IOs with Accuracy plus the Rech/Hold or the End/Rech/Hold. The proc is nearly worthless. The you need to add more Acc and as much damage as you can -- at level 50 I like an Acc/Dam Hami-O and a common Damage.
Fire Cages: The Enfeebled Operation set is good for Defense, but doesn't add much else. From lots of experience with Fire Controllers, I STRONGLY recommend the purple Gravitational Anchor Chance for Hold proc in Fire Cages. It hits very often and makes a huge difference. If not going that direction, I prefer to slot up Fire Cages with Acc and EndRdx, then add damage procs. The damage from procs in this power really adds up.
Smoke: I'm not a big fan of Smoke. I have it on my Fire/Kin and rarely use it. I dropped it on both of my Fire/Rads and never took it on my Fire/Storm. On a fast moving team, the foes are aggroed before you can use it. The ToHitDebuff is small. I use a Stealth IO + Super Speed to give me invisibility and then skip Smoke. Personally, I prefer Bonfire, a situational power that is effective with a single slot.
Hot Feet: I take it at 8, not at 47 as an afterthought. Hot Feet is a major source of Damage AND Control, as it controls with Slow and Afraid . . . when foes are trying to run away, they are not shooting at you. I 6-slot it for a little bit of Accuracy, lots of Damage and EndRdx. Your slotting has 15% Accuracy and only 50% Damage, for what should be your main source of damage and a good source of control.
Flashfire should be taken at 12. The Stupify set is good, but the knockback proc is counter-productive. Yes, I know it is nice ranged defense, but I replace that proc with a Common Recharge. If you can afford it, the purple Absolute Amazement provides great Recharge.
I'm gonna stop here as I'm running out of time, but you may get the idea. I think this build needs some major re-thinking.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Observations on observations by Local_Man:
(What is the current level of the OP's controller?)
I just approved of the 4-set basilisk gaze, the OP definitely wants to choose enhancements for enough Acc to be effective, with over 130% of recharge, slotting for recharge isn't an issue.
I see smoke as an IO bonus mule, and I didn't try to rearrange the OP's selection order.
There is also a decent 20% global accuracy bonus as well.
Enfeebled Operation boosts the global recharge as well. I also tried to avoid too much purples as I didn't know the OP's budget.
Hotfeet: I also know many who solo fire/? crave the extra damage of hot feet. I got the feeling that the OP was going for max recharge for max buildup, conserve power, cinders, forge, the big thermal debuffs; even fire imps, crave a speedy recharge. "As you say: "I have a certain view of controllers . . . that they should focus on controlling rather than defense." I am of the position that extra recharge helps with most of the control, esp cinders.
I agree with you about the proc in Flashfire; I am NOT a fan of misuse of bonfire (it does have uses).
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
OMG thank you for saying what I have been wanting to say on almost every board looking at every build. I see all these build built around getting defense as if defense is the magic I WIN button. |
Originally Posted by Local_Man
I have a certain view of controllers . . . that they should focus on controlling rather than defense. Defense is nice after your powers are slotted up to be effective, but I dislike sacrificing the function of powers in order to slot up for Defense. .
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Im tired of seeing toons underslotted for accuracy, damage and recharge because they have overslotted powers for some defense.
I never worry about defense on a controller.. If the mob is CONTROLLED.. thats my defense..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
High defense builds that also have high (permahasten level) recharge, and do not sacrifice enhancement values or skip key powers are immensely powerful, but they're:
1) expensive;
2) not easy to design, especially on secondaries like /Therm, that demand heavy slot investment and do not self-buff defense or recharge.
The easiest solution is to take one of the APP shields that give defense, but this creates difficulties with concept and you may want powers from other APPs.
Here's an example with 45 S/L/E defense using mace mastery and Spiritual core paragon. All attacks are designed to cap hitchance vs. +3 enemies, except Cinders (94.4%). Hasten is 2.9s off perma. You can subsitute ice or stone mastery, although I think those really work better on a build where you have more free power choices.
Code:
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Quote:
Mental Maden and I have had this discussion many times. Folks seem to want to turn their Controllers into Tanks by capping Defense. Yes, that will improve survivability, but it reduces the ability to actually benefit the team by providing controls, buffs and debuffs, and damage. Slotting for high Recharge and decent Recovery allows a Controller to use his controls more often, benefitting the entire team -- a well-played Controller can become a force multiplier on the right team. I have seen builds where folks were able to effectively slot the powers AND add a lot of Defense, and that's OK. But in the builds above, Hot Feet and Char, two of the key powers for a Fire Controller, are underslotted.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
OMG thank you for saying what I have been wanting to say on almost every board looking at every build. I see all these build built around getting defense as if defense is the magic I WIN button.
Im tired of seeing toons underslotted for accuracy, damage and recharge because they have overslotted powers for some defense. I never worry about defense on a controller.. If the mob is CONTROLLED.. thats my defense.. |
Some of the problem, I suppose, may be focus. I view Controllers as mostly a team character whose job is to help the team defeat foes more. I like to be able to solo, but that's not the main focus of my builds. Many of the builds I see are, from my view, selfish and focused upon personal survival over benefitting the team. Frankly, debt is so insignificant in the game today that I don't mind faceplanting once in a while if I can help the team defeat stuff faster.
One example is the Fighting Pool. I see lots of Controller builds posted with the Fighting Pool. That is three powers devoted only to personal survival, and the amounts aren't that high -- granted, stacking it with other Defense will add up. But that is three power pics and slots that could be used to choose powers that could benefit the entire team. Even some situational powers can be used to provide a benefit for the team, like Bonfire. I find lots of uses for Bonfire that don't irritate the team by knocking back foes in the wrong places -- with practice, I have learned when to use and not use the power.
I have somewhere around 12 level 50 Controllers, and not a single one of them has capped Defense. A few have a fair amount of Defense that I could fit in at the same time that I slotted the powers to be effective, mostly S/L defense that I got starting with the APP or PPP shields. And I contribute a LOT on all the teams I join.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
Yet you can't post a build that has significantly better enhancement values than the one I posted, nor can you point out how it's deficient in team support ability.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
...
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Quote:
Dude . . . |
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Yet you can't post a build that has significantly better enhancement values than the one I posted, nor can you point out how it's deficient in team support ability.
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I wasn't responding to your post or your build. I didn't even look at your build. I agree that it is possible to create a build that provides good slotting for the Powers AND some Defense, especially S/L with Ice or Rock armor or S/L/E with the armor from the Mace PPP.
Mine was just a general rant about the trend on the forums.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
Why are you ranting about people wanting to build for defense, then? I don't get it.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Dude . . .
I wasn't responding to your post or your build. I didn't even look at your build. I agree that it is possible to create a build that provides good slotting for the Powers AND some Defense, especially S/L with Ice or Rock armor or S/L/E with the armor from the Mace PPP. Mine was just a general rant about the trend on the forums. |
Quote:
Try reading Airhammer's post . . . you know, the one I quoted? That explains what I was responding to. |
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Why are you ranting about people wanting to build for defense, then? I don't get it.
|
I frequently see builds with just Lockdown or 4 Baz Gaze in the single target hold . . . which is a main source of damage for most controllers. I frequently see builds with the Fighting Pool while skipping useful control powers. I see builds that skip the AoE hold to fit in Stealth slotted for Defense. I see choices like putting a 6th Stupify in Flashfire for the defense bonus, even though the proc is counter-productive to the effective use of the power and using a Recharge would bring the power back faster and be more useful.
As I said, I always start with an effecive controller. If I can fit in Defense, then that's fine, but I won't sacrifice my ability to control to fit in more defense. We have lately seen way too many builds that focus on Defense at the cost of control.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
In fairness, the amount of sacrifice you have to make to get both high defense and adequately slot your powers has dropped somewhat over the past few issues. IMO it used be a stretch to soft cap the average Controller, but the alpha slot, easier access to Luck of the Gambler, the Destiny slot, and inherent Fitness have made it much easier.
However, I should add that one specific piece of advice from the past that I now no longer support (which I don't think has come up in this thread) is that defense isn't worth it unless you can soft cap it. If you can hit 35% or so, you increase your average survivability enormously, especially if you are good at timing your inspirations. Soft capping is still generally great, but I no longer subscribe to the all-or-nothing theory for Controllers. In that sense I agree with Local Man that sacrificing defense at the cost of utility can sometimes be a waste. IMO it depends a lot on the Controller though. I will probably always seek protection on my Ice and Mind Controllers for example.
Laevateinn's build is actually pretty good. The main thing IMO that could be improved is picking up an AoE blast power. The 3% PVP IO slotted in there is probably way outside the average player's budget. I'm also unsure that the build is sustainable with -1.58% endurance drain and 3.07 returned. I certainly wouldn't want to try to solo with it sans AoE blast. However I still think the build is pretty good overall... my general feeling about builds is if you agree 100% with someone about what is ideal, you're building what they want and not what you actually play.
All,
Top of the morning! Been mulling this over for a while and I think I have a good start to a fire/therm build. Your assistance is sought oh grand masters of MidsFu!
Thanks all, I look forward to your feedback.
The Big EZ
Datalink: http://tinyurl.com/42s68u7 (Thank you tinyurl!)
Level 50 Technology Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Char
(A) Basilisk's Gaze - Chance for Recharge Slow
(3) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
(3) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
(11) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
Level 1: Warmth
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal
(5) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(5) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(11) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(23) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
Level 2: Fire Cages
(A) Enfeebled Operation - Immobilize/Range
(7) Enfeebled Operation - Endurance/Immobilize
(13) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Endurance
(25) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Recharge
(25) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize
(27) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
Level 4: Cauterize
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(7) Doctored Wounds - Heal
(17) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(27) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(29) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
Level 6: Hasten
(A) Recharge Reduction
(9) Recharge Reduction
Level 8: Smoke
(A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff
(9) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
(37) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge
(50) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
(50) Dark Watcher's Despair - Recharge/Endurance
Level 10: Thermal Shield
(A) Impervium Armor - Resistance
(13) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(15) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(45) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
Level 12: Plasma Shield
(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(15) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(17) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(45) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(46) Reactive Armor - Endurance/Recharge
Level 14: Combat Jumping
(A) Kismet - Accuracy +6%
(19) Kismet - Defense/Recharge
(46) Kismet - Defense/Endurance
Level 16: Super Jump
(A) Springfoot - Jumping
Level 18: Cinders
(A) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold
(19) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold
(21) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
(21) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
(23) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold
(48) Lockdown - Accuracy/Recharge
Level 20: Flashfire
(A) Stupefy - Accuracy/Recharge
(40) Stupefy - Endurance/Stun
(42) Stupefy - Accuracy/Endurance
(42) Stupefy - Stun/Range
(42) Stupefy - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
(43) Stupefy - Chance of Knockback
Level 22: Kick
(A) Empty
Level 24: Tough
(A) Resist Damage
Level 26: Maneuvers
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(29) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(43) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 28: Forge
(A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff
(37) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Recharge
Level 30: Weave
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(33) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(33) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
Level 32: Fire Imps
(A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
(34) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
(34) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance
(34) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(36) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets
(36) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
Level 35: Heat Exhaustion
(A) Accuracy
(36) Recharge Reduction
(37) Recharge Reduction
Level 38: Melt Armor
(A) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff
(39) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff/Recharge
(39) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
(39) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage
(40) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff/Endurance
(40) Touch of Lady Grey - Recharge/Endurance
Level 41: Conserve Power
(A) Recharge Reduction
(43) Recharge Reduction
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability
(A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/Endurance
(45) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
(46) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
Level 47: Hot Feet
(A) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
(48) Eradication - Damage
(48) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 49: Power Boost
(A) Recharge Reduction
(50) Recharge Reduction
------------
Level 1: Brawl
(A) Empty
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint
(A) Empty
Level 2: Rest
(A) Empty
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift
(A) Empty
Level 2: Health
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal
Level 2: Hurdle
(A) Empty
Level 2: Stamina
(A) Performance Shifter - EndMod
(31) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
(31) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(31) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
(33) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge