Other than FM, what is the next most offensive secondary?
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-08-03 05:22 in Tankers
Depends on what you're looking for (single-target versus AoE), but Super Strength is usually up there in the damage capabilities. Rage helps a lot with that.
However, if I was looking to build a higher damage tank, starting with the secondary, there's only two that I would really stay away from: Ice Melee (good for mitigation, but lower on damage) and Energy Melee (good single-target [but not great], piss-poor AoE). Everything else is pretty good.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I'd say Dark Melee, because of the tentacles.
...
Oh, you meant that kind of offensive. My bad.
Dark Melee is still one of the better single target damage sets, if you have enough people around you to fuel Soul Drain. Super Strength is fair in Single Target and excellent at AoE. Electric Melee is probably the best AoE damage dealer, but the single target is fairly poor.
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It still amuses me that a set with only ONE AoE power is consistently named as a top AoE performer. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Super Strength is fair in Single Target and excellent at AoE.
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(I know, I know, Foot Stomp is a good power, it's still funny though.)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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It's not just that, to be honest. It's Rage.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It still amuses me that a set with only ONE AoE power is consistently named as a top AoE performer.
(I know, I know, Foot Stomp is a good power, it's still funny though.) |
Everyone can get Fireball, or Electric Fences and Ball Lightning. Suddenly SS has frequent AoEs that are 40% stronger than everyone elses, or 80% if you've got rage double stacked.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Ya Rage is ok but after it drops you are hurting for damage for a little while. That's why i like fire or kin you do not have that.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
It's not just that, to be honest. It's Rage.
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I'd say besides Fire your top AoE outputters will be SS, Ice (yes folks, it's true), and War Mace. Not sure about Elec but I think it's slightly behind in terms of AoE nowadays...could be wrong though?? Don't play it much. Single target damage output I'd say DM and SS (as stated before...Rage is so damn good).
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All of 10 seconds and part of that could be moving between mobs.
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Originally Posted by LSK
Ya Rage is ok but after it drops you are hurting for damage for a little while.
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To say Ice has comparable AoE to SS is to think Foot Stomp is why SS is considered to-tier AoE. Ice doesn't have anything resembling Rage, which is the sole reason SS is so powerful. This was noted above.
Ice's (poorer) Foot Stomp clone wouldn't be enough. Ice DOES have another AoE in it's kit (Frost), but it's a short-range, wide-width cone. It tends to either be a hit or miss depending on devotion to positioning.
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Just an fyi on frost (cone), it is a short cone, but if you slot 3 dam/range, it greatly increases the range of the cone, and you can hit substantially more (I find range is wonderful on cones, meh on single attacks or aoes). Of course, your giving up a full IO slotted bonus, at most 3 slots for accuracy/recharge/endurance effects.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
To say Ice has comparable AoE to SS is to think Foot Stomp is why SS is considered to-tier AoE. Ice doesn't have anything resembling Rage, which is the sole reason SS is so powerful. This was noted above.
Ice's (poorer) Foot Stomp clone wouldn't be enough. Ice DOES have another AoE in it's kit (Frost), but it's a short-range, wide-width cone. It tends to either be a hit or miss depending on devotion to positioning. |
range is 90 degree cone, 10ft cone (with 3 slotted dam/range HO, goes to 15.6 ft range)
I bought a few for 120k influence each (dirt cheap), and one of the best enhancers for cones. Pop in 2 Acc/Rech taunt IO's and you have a decent slot (feel free to go recharge or accuracy, ). Cheap, but VERY effective slotting. (if you have cardiac alpha, you can go 2 dam/range, then slot some dam/rech or dam/acc)
On my fire/ice, I typically target farthest mob, frost, jump in frozen aura/burn.
Frozen aura (base damage) does the same as footstomp, but its all cold damage (and less resisted). Though, you wont have rage up nearly as much (and 80%, sometimes overlapping, sometimes crashed), which makes footstomp/rage better than plain frozen aura.
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
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Again, it's not just the Footstomp to Frozen Aura comparison (by the way, Footstomp has a larger radius). Footstomp also takes the +recharge proc.|
Originally Posted by Gashes
Frozen aura (base damage) does the same as footstomp, but its all cold damage (and less resisted). Though, you wont have rage up nearly as much (and 80%, sometimes overlapping, sometimes crashed), which makes footstomp/rage better than plain frozen aura.
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Rage affects more than Footstomp; with ancillary pools, we can get up to two extra AoEs, one of them hitting 6 more targets than FS/FA.
Footstomp > Ball Lightning > Electric Fences isn't terribly difficult to pull off, and if you can it means double stacked Rage. Even if the Ice Melee character is throwing out Frozen Aura > Ball Lightning > Elec Fences > Frost, the Super Strength character is doing about 80% more damage.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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War Mace's crowd control for damage is awesome, and its a fairly wide cone too, more often than not it will knock all but the strongest of foes onto their backsides, and with some buildup behind it, can from my experiences compare to an SS footstomp. the only thing is, you'll only be able to use it once per build up.|
Originally Posted by Colossal
I'd say besides Fire your top AoE outputters will be SS, Ice (yes folks, it's true), and War Mace. Not sure about Elec but I think it's slightly behind in terms of AoE nowadays...could be wrong though?? Don't play it much. Single target damage output I'd say DM and SS (as stated before...Rage is so damn good).
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Electric is not as good at the single targeted attacks, which is why to be honest its quite good paired with Invul or Willpower on your primary. You got Thunderstrike, and you have lightning rod, even on a tanker, the damage from build up, followed by lightning rod, is huge. And if you put Obliteration in it, watch that bad boy go.
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Not sure if ball lighting+electric fences > frost, especially if you look at the DPS.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Again, it's not just the Footstomp to Frozen Aura comparison (by the way, Footstomp has a larger radius). Footstomp also takes the +recharge proc.
Rage affects more than Footstomp; with ancillary pools, we can get up to two extra AoEs, one of them hitting 6 more targets than FS/FA. Footstomp > Ball Lightning > Electric Fences isn't terribly difficult to pull off, and if you can it means double stacked Rage. Even if the Ice Melee character is throwing out Frozen Aura > Ball Lightning > Elec Fences > Frost, the Super Strength character is doing about 80% more damage. |
Not saying ice is better, I'm saying it is very viable AOE, like SS and warmace
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
I already have a shield/fm tank but I'm looking to build another tank. I just enjoy the journey to 50 I suppose. I'm only in the beginning stages of trying to decide what kind of tank to build, but I figured, I'd start with secondary and then decide on a primary. I'm open to suggestions.
Thanks in advance.