While I'm not saying that doesn't sound cool (it does), it doesn't really fit in with the purpose of the game: your character, unlocking his/her own potential and fighting/causing villainy as means of that progression.
Your idea basically undermines the second tennet there, as you're relying entirely on something external to yourself to do the fighting.
Now, if you wanted to change it to an Ultra Man-esque battle where you are hit with a growth ray to battle some giant and otherwise invincible monstrosity, I could get behind that. I don't see it actually happening, but it doesn't undermine anything that the game stands for.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
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Yeah, I've seen other games (including MMOs) that do "vehicle" missions and I've never been a huge fan of them.
In terms of CoH in particular I think the powers selection is going to make this really problematic. In most other games that use it they simply replace your entire powers bar with a new "vehicle powers" bar but we've never seen any hint of that sort of tech being practical with the current engine (look at the temp powers in iTrials).
I think using it for one mission will fall somewhat short of undermining one of the basic tenets of the game... and the coding and tech derived for such a mission would be a great way to try out new things, like destructible buildings (or in general, any non-targetable destructible objects, so we can have more collateral damage without having to run around intentionally breaking stuff, and having breakable stuff clutter our targeting).
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Unless you're Technology Origin. Then you're already doing basically what the OP suggested all the time, just on a smaller scale.|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
While I'm not saying that doesn't sound cool (it does), it doesn't really fit in with the purpose of the game: your character, unlocking his/her own potential and fighting/causing villainy as means of that progression.
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You heard it here first - Tech characters undermine the central principle of the game!
Anyway, I quite like the idea, but don't go by me. I've long wished that my Robotics Mastermind's Fly power worked by having her climb onto her Assault Bot's back and surf the sky like Norrin Radd, if Norrin Radd had a heavily armed combat robot instead of a cosmic surfboard, so the whole premise of the original post appeals to me on an entirely un-rational level.
The thing is, we already have a few missions like this. No, we don't get grow in size or anything, but we do get turned into unbeatable monstrosities. And do you know what happens in those missions? We get no experience, no influence, and absolutely no incentive to ever run it again (except for the brief fun in turning on god mode, which can be found by running test mode in AE).
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See, this is where the Standard Code Rant applies. Most of this stuff can be done in game, it is possible to replace the character with an NPC model (Stone Armor and Halloween costumes), non-targetable but attackable objects are theoretically possible (PBAoEs affect untargetable enemies so a combination of a PBAoE aura and placate effects could probably simulate it).|
Originally Posted by Starhammer
I think using it for one mission will fall somewhat short of undermining one of the basic tenets of the game... and the coding and tech derived for such a mission would be a great way to try out new things, like destructible buildings (or in general, any non-targetable destructible objects, so we can have more collateral damage without having to run around intentionally breaking stuff, and having breakable stuff clutter our targeting).
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The BIG, major, humungous, issue is how to give you access to the vehicle's attacks. The above examples of costume changes all either require custom animations or turn off all powers. So to make a vehicle work it would need to turn off all existing powers (to avoid animation issues) and then, somehow, give you access to a new set of powers. Anyway you look at it that's a significant change from anything that has come before which almost certainly means a large amount of coding. Add in the animation and art work needed to make it look good and it's almost certainly a huge amount of work for minimal benefit.
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I think you're forgetting about the Dwarf and Nova powers which do exactly that.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
The BIG, major, humungous, issue is how to give you access to the vehicle's attacks. The above examples of costume changes all either require custom animations or turn off all powers. So to make a vehicle work it would need to turn off all existing powers (to avoid animation issues) and then, somehow, give you access to a new set of powers. Anyway you look at it that's a significant change from anything that has come before which almost certainly means a large amount of coding. Add in the animation and art work needed to make it look good and it's almost certainly a huge amount of work for minimal benefit.
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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
What about a specific mission where the scientists enlarge you view some crazy growth ray so you are large/strong enough to defeat said evil giant monsters? The mission would obviously be on a specific map where the size wouldn't be an issue. Technically speaking all the devs would have to do is make a bunch of tiny buildings and then throw in two normal sized baddies to fight you to give off the appearance of you being massive.
"PvP Messiah"
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Love this idea!|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
I've long wished that my Robotics Mastermind's Fly power worked by having her climb onto her Assault Bot's back and surf the sky like Norrin Radd, if Norrin Radd had a heavily armed combat robot instead of a cosmic surfboard, so the whole premise of the original post appeals to me on an entirely un-rational level.
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Originally Posted by Cold_X
What about a specific mission where the scientists enlarge you view some crazy growth ray so you are large/strong enough to defeat said evil giant monsters? The mission would obviously be on a specific map where the size wouldn't be an issue. Technically speaking all the devs would have to do is make a bunch of tiny buildings and then throw in two normal sized baddies to fight you to give off the appearance of you being massive.
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Also, the idea for the mission is not so much about being in "god mode" and stomping everything because it's helpless compared to the new giant you, it's just about changing the perspective of the scale... The enemy Giant Monsters would still be as tough as any other Bosses/EBs/GMs in the last mission, so your power level wouldn't actually change, it would just seem to since they were unbeatable in a previous mission leading up to this (think Reichsman).
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No I'm not. There is a huge difference between powers that are only available to a specific AT (and one that has fixed powersets as well) and permanently grant extra powers and a power that would, by nature, be a temporary power.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
I think you're forgetting about the Dwarf and Nova powers which do exactly that.
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Take a look at the Kheld powers in RedTomax, notice how they all have extra tags in the "Modes Disallowed" portion of the power box? In order to use a similar system for a temp powers the devs would need to add an extra tag to EVERY SINGLE POWER available to players to disallow it in "super mecha mode". That's a significant amount of effort (not to mention any coding needed to support it) just for a single mission.
Next, think about how the power would actually work in game. When you enter the mission you get granted a temporary auto-power "Super Mega Mech". You now look like a mech and all of your powers are greyed out. You also get a bunch of other temporary powers "Mech Attack 1", "Mech Attack 2" etc. But they aren't on your trays. You've got to dig through your temporary powers list and find them. Then when the mission is over you need to reset your trays. Consider how much trouble people had with the temp powers in Lambda when it was new, does this really sound like a good idea?
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Oh hardy harr. |
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Unless you're Technology Origin. Then you're already doing basically what the OP suggested all the time, just on a smaller scale.
You heard it here first - Tech characters undermine the central principle of the game! |
You're still unlocking your potential through technology and/or gadgets than through training, mutation, enhanced magicks or chemicals, or however you choose to roleplay (or not roleplay) your abilities. My point was basically that the game is supposed to be YOUR story, not Voltron's.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Sure, it is a lot of work. But it IS possible. There's no coding changes needed, it would be all spreadsheet work. I actually PMed Castle about this a long time ago (in the context of a possible body-swapping mission), and he said as much. There would be art work involved, but they already have lots of missile-launching and laser-shooting FX animations. Heck, they could just have you pilot a Kronos-class Titan, that would save some art time.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Next, think about how the power would actually work in game. When you enter the mission you get granted a temporary auto-power "Super Mega Mech". You now look like a mech and all of your powers are greyed out. You also get a bunch of other temporary powers "Mech Attack 1", "Mech Attack 2" etc. But they aren't on your trays. You've got to dig through your temporary powers list and find them. Then when the mission is over you need to reset your trays. Consider how much trouble people had with the temp powers in Lambda when it was new, does this really sound like a good idea?
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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
I'd love to see a LVAS Vanguard power; a pilotable Vanguard Assault Suit with the torso chassis reworked to allow a player character to be at the controls. And then you get the powers as part of the temp.
Heck, make it a permanently useable power, but on a major cooldown and with a decent duration. Oh, and add mez protection, seeing a HVAS getting KD and KB'd is kinda ridiculous...
Lotta work? Yup. But I'd pay to have that
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Ok, I know we can't have growth powers because of issues with fitting in tunnels and such. However, I'd love to see a story arch where you're going along, fighting the bad guys, and get stomped by one or more "Unbeatable Giant Monsters". Then you have to help some scientist get supplies to build a super weapon to defeat them, which turns out to be a Giant Mecha power. The power is Auto, so when you enter the final mission, your character is effectively turned into some giant mechanical robot (kinda like the 5th column ones or so... they'd actually make great enemies for this scenario), that functions similarly to Nova or Dwarf form on a Kheld, greying out most or all of your existing powers, and giving you powers appropriate to a giant mech, like missile launchers, rapid laser cannons, stomp, and so on...
The mission map would look, at first, like one of the urban maps, say the Atlas Park bank mission, but in reality, all the buildings would be replaced with equivalents that are non-targetable destructable objects (essentially they only take damage from AoE effects). Aside from the "Giant Monster" enemies, the map could also be stocked with squads of Longbow/Arachnos/5th Council soldiers to support or oppose you, but they would all be effectively powered down to "underlings", so that you have that feel of GM power as well.
I know the tech might be a lot of work for a single mission arch (of course it could be reused for others), but it might also help develop coding and tools to make better use of giant monsters in general...
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