I think what kills Bane for me is that Shatter is a single-target attack, whereas on the Brute it can reliably hit 3+ targets once you learn to line it up properly. So on the Brute you are going to have a chainable AOE run of Crowd Control - Whirling Mace - Shatter. I'd probably give the nod to Banes in ST for the reasons you mention. But these days I'm more likely to run Brutes on teams where AOE is more helpful (and can maximize AAO's +dmg).
It's kind of a toss-up. But then I'd imagine that Mace/SD is much more fun to play ... I mean, hey, you can make a guy who looks like a Roadworker (I did) and give him the Pipewrench and Sewer Lid. How is that not awesome?!!
If they ever port Mace to scrappers, this becomes a non-issue: go scrapper.
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It's awesome. Makes IOing yourself out more expensive though obviously.|
Originally Posted by Osmiridium
5 - The Bane does have the option for a complete dual build to Crab/Huntsman to switch to "AoE mode" instead. How well does this work out though?
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Does mace's disorient cause mobs to wander out of range of AAO and hurt your damage bonus? I don't have enough experience with mace to know if this is a valid con or not.
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I've never really noticed any mobs wandering around with my WM/SD brute. Granted they're usually packed pretty tight with the taunt aura and the AoE damage that he's throwing around. The AoE potential is quiet nice on the WM/SD. Shield charge adds to this as well. I've seen many people use Shield Charge to open up the fight, and this has always seemed a waste to me. Run in, take the alpha and build the fury bar up, maybe throw CC or Whirling Mace while you get enough mobs in range to cap AAO then "charge" the group. Death insues...|
Originally Posted by Pampl
It's awesome. Makes IOing yourself out more expensive though obviously.
Does mace's disorient cause mobs to wander out of range of AAO and hurt your damage bonus? I don't have enough experience with mace to know if this is a valid con or not. |
The only thing I find annoying about the set is the constant redraw with SD 's status protection
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Banes have absolutely incredible spike damage potential... Possibly the second best, beaten only by Stalkers. Actually, Bane could be considered a rather interesting mix of Stalker and Brute. A little mitigation mixed with impressive ST damage per attack.|
Originally Posted by Osmiridium
1 - The Brute looks to have a world more AoE potential than the Bane (pretty much just crowd control), but I can't tell if the Bane will destroy the Brute in the ST department (Surveillance, Shatter Armor, Executioners/Stealth Strikes, pets, higher base modifier, but no Jawbreaker, Clobber, Fury, AAO). Enough to offset the lack of AoE?
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Originally Posted by Osmiridium
3 - The Brute clearly wins in the HP department, my modified base is higher and with OwtS, I can crank it up to around 3k. But is that going to be a big deal with soft-capped defenses anyway?
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Originally Posted by Osmiridium
4 - My Bane builds have come up much better on the End use side of things, but the Brute still hits 2end/sec recovery with all toggles running (including DN from soul). Will this be enough?
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Originally Posted by Osmiridium
5 - The Bane does have the option for a complete dual build to Crab/Huntsman to switch to "AoE mode" instead. How well does this work out though?
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On a side note... Are we going to completely forget about the added Toxic Dot in most of the Banes attacks? I mean, I know it's minor it most cases... but I think it adds to one of the reasons why you should go with the Bane over the Brute.
I like the feedback/thoughts so far, keep em coming. How about putting them in some actual scenarios:
1 - Hard Single Target (AV/GM - doesn't have to be solo, but lets say you have aggro anyway)
- Brute - DN, more hitpoints, DDR, OwtS = more likely to survive. But will the ST damage be there to win (if solo)?
- Bane - From what I can tell, incredible ST damage, but will it survive? (possibly not from Rock Crag)
2 - AoE - pretty much no contest...as a Bane. Using the dual build though, I'm not even sure the SoA can match Crowd Control, Whirling Mace, Shatter (Brute is a smallish AoE) and Shield Charge.
3 - Teaming - The Bane brings more buffage no matter what build, but the Brute can assume the tank role much easier due to the Taunt aura (and I'll be taking Taunt as well).
Taking End out of the equation for now, leaning towards Ageless on the Brute which will take care of things anyway.
So ultimately, if it comes down to the Brute just taking longer on the Hard stuff, but still coming out on top, then I'll go Brute. And...probably roll a Bane later anyway knowing me.
An Executioners strike Shatter out of hide with a Bane is pretty awesome. I have noticed the lesser amount of AOE dmg though.
I've had massive amounts of fun with my Bane on speed ITF's on the second and third missions. Run in and 2 or 3 shot a nictus crystal or EB general and SS off to the next one.
What makes the Bane shine is also what helps it get killed. Your high damage makes the AV turn to you and go 'You die next'. However, if this isn't solo... and you have a tanker who can do the job properly... that extra damage and de-buff/buff really helps the team out. And let's not forget your pets... although they aren't as useful against AVs.. unless someone has Barrier or something.
Honestly though... this is almost like comparing apples to oranges. Even though Banes have maces... the closer comparison to a Brute would be a Crab... simply because they can be as survivable as any Brute (except for a good WP or any Stone, obviously). They get a great heal/+hp, they can reach defense soft cap, and easily obtain resists in the mid 40s.
Of course... I say all this only knowing the way my Soldier plays. I don't have a Shield Brute, so I can't make a direct comparison....
So I decided to try something a bit different (for me) and go back to a weapon set for a chance of pace. Rolled up a Mace/Shield and have been very impressed with the damage so far (though brutes are like that starting out). Then started looking into Banes a bit and then potential looks promising there too.
Not looking for builds per se, I've messed around with Mids enough with both to pretty much do what I want with soft-capping and such, but rather want some opinions/differences between the 2.
1 - The Brute looks to have a world more AoE potential than the Bane (pretty much just crowd control), but I can't tell if the Bane will destroy the Brute in the ST department (Surveillance, Shatter Armor, Executioners/Stealth Strikes, pets, higher base modifier, but no Jawbreaker, Clobber, Fury, AAO). Enough to offset the lack of AoE?
2 - I haven't built for completely double max recharge on the Brute, so AD doesn't completely overlap for the full DDR. The Bane has none, but I can get it over 50% to all positions a lot easier than the Brute to help offset the lack of DDR. How will this play out?
3 - The Brute clearly wins in the HP department, my modified base is higher and with OwtS, I can crank it up to around 3k. But is that going to be a big deal with soft-capped defenses anyway?
4 - My Bane builds have come up much better on the End use side of things, but the Brute still hits 2end/sec recovery with all toggles running (including DN from soul). Will this be enough?
5 - The Bane does have the option for a complete dual build to Crab/Huntsman to switch to "AoE mode" instead. How well does this work out though?
Just looking for any other pros/cons/things I'm missing between these two.