DM's to-hit debuff also compliments SR's defense.
@Jumpman
Ink Jet - 50 DM/SR - Virtue
Halloweed - 50 Plant/Thorn - Virtue
Super Reflexes is the poor man's defense set. Shield Defense is more expensive to soft-cap, but Against All Odds makes it worth using if you can afford the builds.
For a primary set, I prefer sets with damage buff powers that can be made almost permanent. The 10-second build-up powers are just too short. Dark Melee and Kinetic Melee are more of my flavor for Scrapper primaries, but Claws and Dual Blades can be fun too.
Dual Blades is my favorite pairing with SR.
DB needs a lot of recharge to reach its top attack chain, and SR is the best for letting you go wild with slots. In fact, you can reach the top DB chain and still have a lot of damage bonuses going on, giving you amazing DPS overall.
Here's a DB/SR build I have saved:
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1429;693;1386;HEX;| |78DA65936B6F1241148667D9A52D144A29426FB694D2160A6529D10FC64B9BD46AA| |216C562FD66C85AA605254058485AA346FF82D73FA0557F863FC8CB772F78F6BCD3| |1603097966DE79CFCC396766F3079B3E215EAC0B6DE46ACDB2ED5271B765359BB23| |594EFB4AD76B55117834288A963B994973529CDCD8E552B6DD4ACB2B4A3274B9B72| |4FD66D69163BCE6C5BEED5E481B48337EA15D992F5B6793CF0161A8D9A596C4A59F| |6F1704B5ACD6A7DDFCF93EBD5FD4A9B6681E3A5B26CD9956A3378AD59DD35371AE5| |C352DEB2DBB275384189A5E8FFC4C9907F5D5DEC117262609FE17BC41879CCC83B3| |E8D7D8618D11C692C00F81967BCC030E336D93565D7E08B206A02F609F866117587| |EC3AEC420FB3F49424371273BBD32E4E25C5985D662C2719A904F0951012CF286A5| |0450D0ADD5919EAB261E82FC3FB07F8CDF0FD623CA7108FE6E2280FCA8EA1EC187A| |B180CE24AA408551A0A86195F4709AA57992FC905C7E48A3400488932180FC44609| |AF38B901454DB0451FB5D92424A0A4172911446A0163EE05AB3870C9D56C6D599E3| |CE60462CADD1CC106285A98B976499545D99BCC2254F5D062E31CE5E042EA0C1EB9| |C984151D3D8D83D8D3B9CC31DCEE1D6E67095311F2385448B1435A3729F81344652| |1492168D711F72C03D5A9957CF641E7BC771521C7BC7F14C32383044F64595D1E21| |7CE75E92370C4487CC0D3F8CCC87C6214A99AA46A5D12D7B00CECD04A1A2B463AC7| |E6955520CBC89A8C5C86B14DC79BAA3433C33B1CF9855855D2EA7B34D1E8F9A2F09| |846F19816FE7B4C51E3E48BEAA64E639C699736EB53727DCAB93EE57C9FB2D5AB0C| |708205439D4B92C626CFA870BE154EE59BF7E4CB151A8AFC712AE9DA7D5CC80E23B| |BC6EF2D77939010DF7B43931CFAF354726BE88FEB1DF09661BC015E33065E311E78| |9DBB423E56CFF861CFB8D033BE15A22835FE07962CD9BE| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Dark Melee is a great choice for survivability due to the heal. But these days it's easier than ever to add Aid Self to a build, so that's a practical alternative much of the time if you can stomach the tricorder. I like that Dark Melee's heal is non-interruptable and doesn't interrupt your attacks. On the other hand, you need a target, and it has to hit.
I like Dual Blades, but also for consideration is Katana, which pumps out equivalent DPS at lower recharge, freeing up other aspects of your build, plus Build Up means the damage is more front-loaded. Divine Avalanche can also make for smoother leveling. Dual Blades, though, has a cone as part of its DPS chain, which is an advantage for taking down whole spawns, so I'd say it puts out more damage in practice.
But then, if you want to take spawns apart quickly, you can always go with something like Spines or Electric.
Really, one nice thing about Super Reflexes is that as long as you're willing to take Aid Self, it doesn't need anything from the primary, and you can pretty much pick whatever primary satisfies your other goals for the build.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
QFT|
Originally Posted by Werner
Really, one nice thing about Super Reflexes is that as long as you're willing to take Aid Self, it doesn't need anything from the primary, and you can pretty much pick whatever primary satisfies your other goals for the build.
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As a personal aside, SR leaves a lot of room for whatever you want (Despite needing to take nearly all of it). The ability to wade through mobs relatively untouched is awesome, so just consider whether you want to be a single target specialist, or an AoE machine and go from there.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Quote:
You don't even need Aid Self anymore if you take Rebirth(radial).|
Originally Posted by Werner
Dark Melee is a great choice for survivability due to the heal. But these days it's easier than ever to add Aid Self to a build, so that's a practical alternative much of the time if you can stomach the tricorder. I like that Dark Melee's heal is non-interruptable and doesn't interrupt your attacks. On the other hand, you need a target, and it has to hit.
I like Dual Blades, but also for consideration is Katana, which pumps out equivalent DPS at lower recharge, freeing up other aspects of your build, plus Build Up means the damage is more front-loaded. Divine Avalanche can also make for smoother leveling. Dual Blades, though, has a cone as part of its DPS chain, which is an advantage for taking down whole spawns, so I'd say it puts out more damage in practice. But then, if you want to take spawns apart quickly, you can always go with something like Spines or Electric. Really, one nice thing about Super Reflexes is that as long as you're willing to take Aid Self, it doesn't need anything from the primary, and you can pretty much pick whatever primary satisfies your other goals for the build. |
And yeah, Katana is great but DB does more damage over time. What I recently noticed thanks to you is how much DPS gets lowered due to the cast time of powers like BU. The extra cast time every 30 seconds or so is something that DB is unhindered by, making its already superior DPS even better.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Cool thoughts so far!
I one does go for Aid Self, do you even bother to slot Aid Other? One thing I see is that you could add a slot to Aid Other, and get 2 pc Numina's for a 12% Regen.
Quote:
This part comes down to build choices and available slots, and possibly do you even want to heal others?|
Originally Posted by Kinetoa
Cool thoughts so far!
I one does go for Aid Self, do you even bother to slot Aid Other? One thing I see is that you could add a slot to Aid Other, and get 2 pc Numina's for a 12% Regen. |
Assuming one has the slots.
5 Luck of the Gamblers +RCH (which SR has the powers to slot them)
Aid Other and Aid Self slotted with Panacea
Epic Pool Hold.
That's 8 bonses of +7.5% RCH, plus Quickness, plus any other powers slotted with +RCH.
Of course that said, one of those +7.5% can be slotted with a purple set (hold) if given the slots.
Here's just a quick (expensive) MA/SR build that fits it all in (and now I wonder if I can fit this all in on a DM/SR build)
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1480;704;1408;HEX;| |78DA8D945B6F124114C767D9450ABDD1D23BA5F42AB7B20535315A2F315613B5AB5| |88C6F06B774DA6EBAA1046852DFFC0C9AB426DA37AFDF47A3DFC0F8E0E50B183C7B| |FE0325E1C50DE43773E67F2E737666ADC3B53E219E5F17DAC04DD7AED74BC572CDA| |E5665CD6FD93B4E59048410D196AD6449574AD3B26B0DC7764B376A8D7ABCBDB626| |B765A52ECDE28137DB90DBAE3C94F5A13B955D59939586D91AF415F6F75D735DDA5| |5A7B2D3CF93DBCECE6E836683ADA52D59ABEF3A55AC5A72CB293B153979ABEA94CD| |62C376F7284171FFC02D5976BD216BCF26A8C83CFD8FBC6AF969FA45C2E7198D24E| |34C0A48337A328C7C86FD2CCF4B632F9F18D558709166862E428AC701A5A0C0DA53| |F60A6D32FACAC016634032D27B8CFBE4A5ABC03A020FA88061C50724F12B893F488| |38408F730860DC6180902106881BF8498C847752F54815682A84904E738A146A65E| |65EA6DD22374B2F4C35DEF1FD73CF7E173EC3E720D15B4F8909483AA92415432864| |AC650C96B120CA91E0CA10713E8C1047A30851E4CA10759F46083BC22082B225936| |19641A559946D19669D58E16874932AE763D8EBDE58137B432892A8CC94BFC1A672| |E03ABC015C6EC554691E451952B1AE65CB323003247025E4FB0ABD85BF6997B07BC| |073E30163E32163F314EC82BAEAA88A3178B3680DD27D092045AF288E4F3AA8A79E| |45D503B6D314692251571699ADFD0D9183003C4198959469CE449557612F214E429| |C85390A721CF46B98EEF34C9A8249965DEC9B209AC00394636CFF841721372DDFCE| |CF31AB5F205F80A7C63BCA26272EAD8E54EC81411D346FB26D2CF3B8971A37DCB9A| |E9AED55C9725DF6539DF65B9D065593FCD22C42A5A5B30DA975768AC0A86E962C2D| |2FC19A255E5A1E180FE3E3569DA5D3EFCE9C7FCD67E758A932CFE736AD2B517DC37| |DF4BE0085FA0634621E48543CE271D63BB63BCD931FE8FE75E84022BF93F2C33065| |B| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Good point. I wouldn't personally like being stuck with "only" 200% extra regeneration for a minute with no heal except greens, but that much regeneration DOES go a really long way when nothing can hit you. A number of people have done all the usual dangerous stuff using just passive regeneration on a Super Reflexes, and that was before Rebirth. So yeah, Rebirth is plenty for most things most of the time.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
You don't even need Aid Self anymore if you take Rebirth(radial).
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
And yeah, Katana is great but DB does more damage over time. What I recently noticed thanks to you is how much DPS gets lowered due to the cast time of powers like BU. The extra cast time every 30 seconds or so is something that DB is unhindered by, making its already superior DPS even better.
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Both should benefit about the same from Interface, as both top chains put out four attacks in 4.5 seconds. The Katana chain gets a little more -resistance than the Dual Blades chain, so probably gets a hair more out of Interface damage, but it's hardly a deciding factor.
Maybe I should say more about front-loading damage. A long time ago, I was comparing a Broad Sword build to a Dual Blades build. I'm kind of making up numbers since I don't remember exactly, but I think the Broad Sword build did around 175 DPS, and the Dual Blades build did around 225 DPS. The thing is, Broad Sword was ahead on damage for the first 15 or so seconds of the fight despite a 50 DPS deficit. If we're talking about a mere 7 DPS deficit, I think we'd find that the Katana damage is ahead of Dual Blades for a very long time indeed. Front loaded damage is also better at taking out threats in a spawn, improving survivability.
In practice, though, it would probably be pretty hard to notice the difference just based on performance. Both would tear through spawns quickly. Both would eliminate dangerous mobs quickly.
Actually, it's kind of shocking to me how well-balanced power sets remain even with top end builds. I know the devs have had seven years to iron all this out, but I'm still impressed.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
That's strange, Musculature gives me more DPS than Spiritual does. Did you use the build I posted? It has more recharge than the Katana one.|
Originally Posted by Werner
Good point. I wouldn't personally like being stuck with "only" 200% extra regeneration for a minute with no heal except greens, but that much regeneration DOES go a really long way when nothing can hit you. A number of people have done all the usual dangerous stuff using just passive regeneration on a Super Reflexes, and that was before Rebirth. So yeah, Rebirth is plenty for most things most of the time.
Using the same basic template that had Katana doing 242 DPS, Dual Blades ended up with the exact same number. Now, that's pre-incarnate powers, and with Spiritual you can get the Dual Blades damage up a little higher (249 DPS) since the top chain tops out at +314% recharge, which I wasn't achieving. Both should benefit about the same from Interface, as both top chains put out four attacks in 4.5 seconds. The Katana chain gets a little more -resistance than the Dual Blades chain, so probably gets a hair more out of Interface damage, but it's hardly a deciding factor. Maybe I should say more about front-loading damage. A long time ago, I was comparing a Broad Sword build to a Dual Blades build. I'm kind of making up numbers since I don't remember exactly, but I think the Broad Sword build did around 175 DPS, and the Dual Blades build did around 225 DPS. The thing is, Broad Sword was ahead on damage for the first 15 or so seconds of the fight despite a 50 DPS deficit. If we're talking about a mere 7 DPS deficit, I think we'd find that the Katana damage is ahead of Dual Blades for a very long time indeed. Front loaded damage is also better at taking out threats in a spawn, improving survivability. In practice, though, it would probably be pretty hard to notice the difference just based on performance. Both would tear through spawns quickly. Both would eliminate dangerous mobs quickly. Actually, it's kind of shocking to me how well-balanced power sets remain even with top end builds. I know the devs have had seven years to iron all this out, but I'm still impressed. |
And yes, I was quite impressed as well at how balanced things are at the top-end.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
I'm curious, how does Katana get more -resistance than Dual Blades?|
Originally Posted by Werner
Good point. I wouldn't personally like being stuck with "only" 200% extra regeneration for a minute with no heal except greens, but that much regeneration DOES go a really long way when nothing can hit you. A number of people have done all the usual dangerous stuff using just passive regeneration on a Super Reflexes, and that was before Rebirth. So yeah, Rebirth is plenty for most things most of the time.
Using the same basic template that had Katana doing 242 DPS, Dual Blades ended up with the exact same number. Now, that's pre-incarnate powers, and with Spiritual you can get the Dual Blades damage up a little higher (249 DPS) since the top chain tops out at +314% recharge, which I wasn't achieving. Both should benefit about the same from Interface, as both top chains put out four attacks in 4.5 seconds. The Katana chain gets a little more -resistance than the Dual Blades chain, so probably gets a hair more out of Interface damage, but it's hardly a deciding factor. Maybe I should say more about front-loading damage. A long time ago, I was comparing a Broad Sword build to a Dual Blades build. I'm kind of making up numbers since I don't remember exactly, but I think the Broad Sword build did around 175 DPS, and the Dual Blades build did around 225 DPS. The thing is, Broad Sword was ahead on damage for the first 15 or so seconds of the fight despite a 50 DPS deficit. If we're talking about a mere 7 DPS deficit, I think we'd find that the Katana damage is ahead of Dual Blades for a very long time indeed. Front loaded damage is also better at taking out threats in a spawn, improving survivability. In practice, though, it would probably be pretty hard to notice the difference just based on performance. Both would tear through spawns quickly. Both would eliminate dangerous mobs quickly. Actually, it's kind of shocking to me how well-balanced power sets remain even with top end builds. I know the devs have had seven years to iron all this out, but I'm still impressed. |
Both sets can take both -Resistance Procs. Dual Blades top chain uses Alabating Strike and Sweeping Strike, but of which can take a -resistance.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Retracted =)
I had posted a build here, but I screwed it up I think I violated the rule of 5. Going back to the drawing board.
Here's a DM/SR with similar slotting. MG is about .2 seconds off on the needed RCH to obtain SM - SL - SM - MG, but I'd guess it wouldn't really be noticed due to lag, and could be fixed if one just takes the Spiritual Alpha (though I'd likely go the Masculation Route, just for the added damage).
Soul Drain isn't perma either, but close enough imo. Basically, I like these builds for the lack of Hasten. 
Also if ENDREC isn't enough, there's always using Cardiac.
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1426;673;1346;HEX;| |78DA65935B6F124114C767D9457AA1A5B4B6140B055A5B0AC816D4C4787FB0ADD61| |4C5627C33B8A5D3765302648148DFFC0C9AE817F0FAC98C0F5EDEBDE0D9F31F6893| |25C06FE63FFFB3E79C999D526F2328C4ABBB429BBC57B7DAED6AA5E658AD9674FC2| |5EBD0AE898010223AD0AA255997D2DCB09C630C13C3950D79201B6D6956BAEE6C57| |1ED4654FB6C3DB8D23E9C846C71C0C82E566B36EEE48AB65370E2778B2651F1E756| |8161A2CED4BA77D64B7B05A92FB76CD6EC8E866CBAE99958E553FA6049566B75E2D| |59ED8E744EE6A9C40CFD1CB756FEF4FD62D527445104D71817338C7C9651CC01C7C| |245C98DD238CA27663557CA5EA399A18BBCE223B268CAA2C192564B03EB63B2E8CA| |A21B34488B737E60843147063F0CC28F6774490AA87A032FB898913DA0C618DB072| |423887ACB14328A28319A62C947D2B892C6FBF4113A2913C8A64F44681017939775| |D73B790705A7159F9033A40A0FA1F029143E85C25F9221CC1BD4F7877FF3CE4DFF0| |1FE32CEFF03FA8C79C16976296A46B53BC32519A4CCAA44B3D88039B579034E9325| |823EB4085A9B077AB412451146F43A27BA7003B88913BE05DC6654C8BEA0722DA0A| |9189A8AA1A99980BB25D8FAF87B8E59FC007C043E31529F19CB5F18271495505109| |1C58120796C481257160291C582AC7784A514BAA982534BEAC1A1E304E96153CD85| |889F106AEC6814520C148271909B2AF29FB1AEC19D833B06760CFC2FE95FE73CA9E| |CB7327974C601D28E07A1419DFC86E2ABBB9C9D2FA16701F7880FBB3CD88503105F| |5F215163861CC185E44FABA879F308697AC9FF5AC163C4AD1A35CF128573DCA8E47| |291B2A2D291A2BA353C27D43B992EF63C37BAD567F9E2A9AF6905F15E3191FD90F8| |FF7D7A9A26BAF792F7C6F80B70CE31DA33CE63E0D199F9F195B67C67B67C6FF0183| |2BECF5| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
How would you do an Elec/SR? This is how mine came out. I am not sure if I violated the rule of 5 or not, getting a bit confused. I tried to go with no purples or HO's.
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1377;662;1324;HEX;| |78DA6593DB4E1A511486F7C85014398854D12A0C5A15C53240F5BE17D5266DA4A5D| |2F4D64C7023532740604CEC5D9FA14DDA17E8F17D7A7881F6A2076DAF7A88B574CD| |FAB7783104F231FF5E7BED7FEDB5A672B81111E2D135A1C5AE3B56AFB753AB77AD4| |E4776872B07AEE5DAED960809218C3379A7221D29CD4D47D6DDAE5DB71C08E7EB1B| |B2215B3D69D60EBCA76DD970E4A1EC256EB69AB22B5BAE79F627526DB71D734B5A1| |DBBB517E5871BF65ED31D3C55E4AE5DB75B327E16B82BBBBDA6DD496D76ECBA5973| |2D67DFB373B053B17AAEEC3E9C229B8BF4FB1915EAD3D745835016437B4093A1DBC| |00346C52B4FE3F0A0086B9E742106C419C3A34094313EC1B84DBB34ECD235EC0A23| |2E8CB808724490E30E8507102E02C8F08B6C06613318FC3BC4B94F18174F817F8CC| |93E20021E7ED3AE107669A1552E600AA8923C82153102E90F058FAA23463F539AB4| |98FAC2B8F415F8C6983D028E19939428AABC463DAF697197A4B892E2B07F42B9132| |A7702B79CC12D6770CB19DC7216B79CDD676C53A2A44A942CB0A49134A17C4FC077| |9AA494EA606A96EBCEA6197319C000B28C710A9F5649A7E738438DA41925CDC0703| |2E45502C3E9E77CA7975F002F81578C85D7C01BC6299569A85D06DAB380662DA14B| |4BE8D212BA944397EED159F36A3AE63108390C490E43B2822159C17418214CAE17B| |E889A5650761EF5E6517D116507287C594DEC728933E4CB8C2B578135609D514871| |0F75DAB5AA3CADC253019E0AF05484996284F1918E32555B4CB4E51349254881D25| |B9E95F23BE03DF00173A40F5E40FAD24718FAE01DEBE77DAB259F52F6296B3E65DD| |A76CF994AAAE8E25456365644C782D622747E1C13BAC56BF9F2B9A769FEF21768B9| |013C7BED81FE74A407BCCDD8F3D658C3D019E31FE0306C0E8B3| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Quote:
Oops, sorry, yes, Musculature would add more than Spiritual. But we could add Musculature to Katana as well to even things up. Also, it's going to be easier to get away with Musculature on Katana since it doesn't need the recharge as much (not that you can't pull off extreme recharge with Dual Blades and keep Musculature).|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
That's strange, Musculature gives me more DPS than Spiritual does. Did you use the build I posted? It has more recharge than the Katana one.
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I was using a couple builds of my own.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
You're right. My bad. I'd scrolled down too far in my spreadsheet and was looking at the numbers for a different Dual Blades chain - Blinding Feint -> Sweeping Strike -> Ablating Strike. In fact, I think Dual Blades gets slightly better out of the -resist procs with the DPS chain. If my spreadsheet has the timing right, Dual Blades gets a stack of four Achilles' Heel chances on every attack, while Katana drops to three on Gambler's Cut. Negligible difference either way.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I'm curious, how does Katana get more -resistance than Dual Blades?
Both sets can take both -Resistance Procs. Dual Blades top chain uses Alabating Strike and Sweeping Strike, but of which can take a -resistance. |
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Super Reflexes is only good if you don't get hit. If anything DOES hit you, you're crazy squishy.
Shield is a better set overall if you're just going on performance alone, as Syntax42 mentioned. It's not that much more difficult than /SR to softcap, and it can significantly boost your damage output while still giving you several places to put LotG Global Recharge global recharge enhancements and a respectable amount of resistance to Smash/Lethal damage (which pairs nicely with Tough from the fighting pool) and a significant amount of resistance to everything but Psy damage and +Max HP in the T9 power, One With the Shield.
EDIT: I forgot to mention True Grit--an AUTO resistance power that protects against most damage types and gives bonus Max HP.
Remember, SR's high defense is only good if you're lucky--if the RNG hates you, then all your time is spent in the dirt... but if you've got resistance, it doesn't matter how much the RNG hates you.
(Personally, I'd go with Willpower or Shield unless a concept specifically requires SR.)
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Quote:
If you really want to stick to no Purple/HO's (Cost reasons?) Then you'll probably not want the PvP IO's either as they're just as expensive. In concern to the 5-Rule, LotG's are considered their own type of 7.5% Bonus and are exclusive from the others you might find like in Basilisk Gaze and Panacea's. |
Originally Posted by Kinetoa
How would you do an Elec/SR? This is how mine came out. I am not sure if I violated the rule of 5 or not, getting a bit confused. I tried to go with no purples or HO's.
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With that in mind:
Tossed Spiritual Core and a couple of Accolades (the more easily attained ones), so make sure to turn those on.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
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In my experience, where DB jumps ahead of those other sets isn't just the DPS of the top attack chain... it's the fact that the big hitter in DB's chain (sweeping strikes) is a 90 degree cone. |
Originally Posted by Werner
Good point. I wouldn't personally like being stuck with "only" 200% extra regeneration for a minute with no heal except greens, but that much regeneration DOES go a really long way when nothing can hit you. A number of people have done all the usual dangerous stuff using just passive regeneration on a Super Reflexes, and that was before Rebirth. So yeah, Rebirth is plenty for most things most of the time.
Using the same basic template that had Katana doing 242 DPS, Dual Blades ended up with the exact same number. Now, that's pre-incarnate powers, and with Spiritual you can get the Dual Blades damage up a little higher (249 DPS) since the top chain tops out at +314% recharge, which I wasn't achieving. Both should benefit about the same from Interface, as both top chains put out four attacks in 4.5 seconds. The Katana chain gets a little more -resistance than the Dual Blades chain, so probably gets a hair more out of Interface damage, but it's hardly a deciding factor. Maybe I should say more about front-loading damage. A long time ago, I was comparing a Broad Sword build to a Dual Blades build. I'm kind of making up numbers since I don't remember exactly, but I think the Broad Sword build did around 175 DPS, and the Dual Blades build did around 225 DPS. The thing is, Broad Sword was ahead on damage for the first 15 or so seconds of the fight despite a 50 DPS deficit. If we're talking about a mere 7 DPS deficit, I think we'd find that the Katana damage is ahead of Dual Blades for a very long time indeed. Front loaded damage is also better at taking out threats in a spawn, improving survivability. In practice, though, it would probably be pretty hard to notice the difference just based on performance. Both would tear through spawns quickly. Both would eliminate dangerous mobs quickly. Actually, it's kind of shocking to me how well-balanced power sets remain even with top end builds. I know the devs have had seven years to iron all this out, but I'm still impressed. |
And I do agree... the primary sets are very balanced as is. Generally one only pulls ahead of the others if you value something or devalue something in particular... if you want the heal, you get low AoE damage... you want high ST dps you may have to give up burst damage... or endurance management... etc, etc... I would like to see a few sets get tweaked upward slightly in end game damage where their secondary effects seem less important, but in general, i'm very satisfied with where things are.
edit: also.. I could be wrong, but i've never seen a case where adding spiritual to get more recharge gives a higher dps boost then adding musculature... even if you do have gaps in your chain.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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Agreed. As I said earlier in the thread, "Dual Blades, though, has a cone as part of its DPS chain, which is an advantage for taking down whole spawns, so I'd say it puts out more damage in practice."|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
In my experience, where DB jumps ahead of those other sets isn't just the DPS of the top attack chain... it's the fact that the big hitter in DB's chain (sweeping strikes) is a 90 degree cone.
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It's a slippery slope to the more AoE-centric sets, but since it equals Katana's single-target DPS, the AoE is pretty much for free.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Super Reflexes has scaling resistance, which I think is much more helpful than most people realize. It's not that great against AV-sized hits, but it's quite good for most of the game. Add a bunch of hit points, pick up Tough, have high regeneration or a spam heal to keep your hit points topped up, and stop worrying about the random number generator.|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
Super Reflexes is only good if you don't get hit. If anything DOES hit you, you're crazy squishy.
... Remember, SR's high defense is only good if you're lucky--if the RNG hates you, then all your time is spent in the dirt... but if you've got resistance, it doesn't matter how much the RNG hates you. |
I don't consider Shield's resistance to be any better, though the hit points are nice. The main thing going for Shields is the damage output, not any additional survivability over Super Reflexes.
I'm not denying the utility of soft capping a resistance set, or that Super Reflexes can't have a bad day when the RNG hates you, but a well-built Super Reflexes isn't nearly so subject to the whims of the RNG as is perhaps commonly believed.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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a) At one point, I knew about the LotG thing (as its not a bonus, its the actual effect of the IO) and had forgotten.|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
If you really want to stick to no Purple/HO's (Cost reasons?) Then you'll probably not want the PvP IO's either as they're just as expensive. In concern to the 5-Rule, LotG's are considered their own type of 7.5% Bonus and are exclusive from the others you might find like in Basilisk Gaze and Panacea's.
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b) Thanks, this is all "on paper" Mids type stuff to me, and I didnt realize that PVP sets were so expensive.
c) Thanks for working up the build.
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With emphasis!! At 1953 health and passive regen of 28 hp/sec my claws/SR is anything but squishy. She's survived 3 sets of blasts of a Pylon and lived without using Rebirth, Aid Self or greens. Last volley was nearly double digit damage tics owing to those scaling resists. I've seen a fair number of scrappers I think dish out more damage but I've rarely seen any that seem notably tougher.
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Originally Posted by Werner
Super Reflexes has scaling resistance, which I think is much more helpful than most people realize. It's not that great against AV-sized hits, but it's quite good for most of the game. Add a bunch of hit points, pick up Tough, have high regeneration or a spam heal to keep your hit points topped up, and stop worrying about the random number generator.
I don't consider Shield's resistance to be any better, though the hit points are nice. The main thing going for Shields is the damage output, not any additional survivability over Super Reflexes. I'm not denying the utility of soft capping a resistance set, or that Super Reflexes can't have a bad day when the RNG hates you, but a well-built Super Reflexes isn't nearly so subject to the whims of the RNG as is perhaps commonly believed. |
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The scaling resistance and nigh immunity to defense debuffs are where SR shines. My DM/SR may have a bad day with the RNG, but it's never been enough (outside of AVs) that I haven't been able to heal back up through regen, the 270hp heal I get from SL every 4-5 seconds, and the 571hp heal from Aid Self. I actually rarely use Aidself unless things get really bad and I have to back off for a moment. I could probably drop it but I dunno what to replace it with, especially now that he's using Hibernate (which also rarely gets clicked).
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Originally Posted by Werner
Super Reflexes has scaling resistance, which I think is much more helpful than most people realize. It's not that great against AV-sized hits, but it's quite good for most of the game. Add a bunch of hit points, pick up Tough, have high regeneration or a spam heal to keep your hit points topped up, and stop worrying about the random number generator.
I don't consider Shield's resistance to be any better, though the hit points are nice. The main thing going for Shields is the damage output, not any additional survivability over Super Reflexes. I'm not denying the utility of soft capping a resistance set, or that Super Reflexes can't have a bad day when the RNG hates you, but a well-built Super Reflexes isn't nearly so subject to the whims of the RNG as is perhaps commonly believed. |
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
The KM thread around here that is filled with great analysis got me thinking about maybe starting a SR character, as SR came up over there.
Looking at SR, the strengths appear to be the ease of capping the positional DEF's, and getting a jump start on great recharge with Quickness. The downside appears to be the lack of resistance and regen/healing vs other secondaries which can also def cap.
So, the best primary would be something that a) buffs resistance/healing and b) benefits from quickness through attack chain cycle or squeezing some kind of long recharge buff in.
From what I can see, the only thing I find for (a) at all would be DM's Siphon Life; (b) on the other hand is every set, it just depends on the degree.
For recharge:
Everyone gets more attacks in
BU users get more BU in
DB would get more combo bonuses in
KM gets more power siphon uptime, and more chance of fitting in the time window
DM gets more life siphoned, more Dark Consumption, more Soul Drain uptime
ElM gets more of the eyecandytastic Lightning Rod
DM makes for a very compelling partner just based on this high level look.
Based on your experiences, what other considerations could we give to the best Primary for pairing with SR?