Scrapper Envy?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

This is going to be an inherent problem with any system which requires large teams made of level 50 characters. While it's pretty safe to say that a large number of players have at least one 50, I don't think it's as safe to assume that that one 50 is a support AT anywhere near half the time.

When we're talking about lower-level teaming, or teaming for content over a broad level range like the ITF, you can typically get people to swap characters and pick something more relevant to the team, because on average, people have more characters in the 35-50 range than they do at 50. There are exceptions, obviously, but it's a pretty safe bet nonetheless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

IO set bonuses can make high-offense characters extremely survivable, but tend not to be able make high-survivability characters extremely damaging. (There are some exceptions/a few ways around that).

Throw in the lack of any meaningful death penalties, especially at 50, and the fact that high-offense characters make better soloists and farmers, and yeah you're going to find more 'top end' characters are high-offense builds. (Especially because they're the ones who can afford to farm up the money they need to get to be high end builds, making a powerful scrapper or brute starts a virtuous circle from the player perspective - the stronger you are the better you become at getting stronger still).

I noticed this trend several Issues ago, actually; it seemed like it really took off when they buffed +defense set bonuses (a move I was, frankly, shocked by from a balancing perspective and that I think caused several of my friends who wanted to play support characters to reroll or quit, as they started feeling more and more superfluous).

The Incarnate system seems set to just amplify that more, with Clarion offering self-sufficient status protection to squishies, and even more survivability to everyone else, and reactive and judgement boosting offense even further, to the point where a lot of spawns simply will never pose a meaningful threat before they're wiped out.

As it stands I tell people who want to play support characters to roll VEATs.


"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."

 

Posted

I've been bringing my Corruptors, and also have Defenders in queue. They've all been getting Clarion, and once they have it, the Lambda trial is a lot more manageable. (I think the only thing that mezzes in the BAF is exploding WarWorks.)

Of course, all my support characters are debuffers that sport powersets (and builds) intended to provide useful if not amazing personal damage contributions, because they are all meant to be able to solo. I won't claim they were great at it, but I have soloed containers (and their protecting spawn) on Lambda with my Corrs.

I do have more level 50 melees than support characters, though. I've always been drawn to melee ATs in this game.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Blasters, Scrappers, Stalkers, Brutes, Tankers (tho the damage may make you think twice about it), Dominators tend to be the ATs that feel more superhero comicbook character is probably another reason you will tend to see these ATs.

Really, there isn't a lot of "Here let me heal you." or "Here let me encase you in a protective coating of ice." type of character in this genre.

This isn't to say there isn't, but they're pretty much the rarity, as "Here let me heal you right up in no time, forget about ever having to feel a fear of one's own mortality or feeling useless due to an injury or what have you, as I can fix it all!"

That plus players having a tendency to like seeing big orange numbers will draw them to those ATs.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

I will - Play my Grav/FF in trials. She gains contribution due to the damage she can deal and the AOE holds that do damage which = "Contribution" and results in rewards. I will not be bubbling you! I will bubble some people...but generally I wont be bubbling. Bubbling you = you getting rares, uncommons or defense, which then = Me getting commons for not doing damage.

I will not - Play my Emp defender. Damage sucks which = me healing and buffing, = you getting healed and buffed and gaining uncommons, rares etc, which = me getting commons and having to do the trials more.

Blasters, Scrapper, brutes etc gain more rewards for doing their jobs. Debuffers, gain rewards for debuffing. Healers, bubblers, shielders, support do not gain anything for targeting you. Or so I have noticed, and therefore the general population is ensuring that you play something with A) damage output or B)

Controllers/MM/Defenders etc gain powers that overlap with incarnate powers. This is not a bad thing. however lets look at it realisticly

Scrappers/Tanks/Brutes/Stalkers gain a ranged AOE with Judgement, Heals, Barriors, Pets, debuffs etc. While Controllers, MMs, Corrs (This one is debateable only because it can do damage) and other support based AT's already have access to these powers depending on their powerset choices.

So for the most bang for your buck you choose a scrapper/Blaster/Tank/Brute to do trials with so that you literally become the jack of all trades. Melee with range, pets, heals, shields, debuffs etc. It makes more sense to take these toons to trials because you essentially then can mimic other AT's, but have the added bonus of being melee, defense driven (In the case of Blasters and sometimes Corrs and doms, adding defense or protections to mez) AT's who have the survivability.

Incarnate benefits make these AT types better than any other AT types with the same incarnate abilities, just because it take them to a new level of versatility that other AT's will not enjoy.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
I will - Play my Grav/FF in trials. She gains contribution due to the damage she can deal and the AOE holds that do damage which = "Contribution" and results in rewards. I will not be bubbling you! I will bubble some people...but generally I wont be bubbling. Bubbling you = you getting rares, uncommons or defense, which then = Me getting commons for not doing damage.

I will not - Play my Emp defender. Damage sucks which = me healing and buffing, = you getting healed and buffed and gaining uncommons, rares etc, which = me getting commons and having to do the trials more.

Blasters, Scrapper, brutes etc gain more rewards for doing their jobs. Debuffers, gain rewards for debuffing. Healers, bubblers, shielders, support do not gain anything for targeting you. Or so I have noticed, and therefore the general population is ensuring that you play something with A) damage output or B)

Controllers/MM/Defenders etc gain powers that overlap with incarnate powers. This is not a bad thing. however lets look at it realisticly

Scrappers/Tanks/Brutes/Stalkers gain a ranged AOE with Judgement, Heals, Barriors, Pets, debuffs etc. While Controllers, MMs, Corrs (This one is debateable only because it can do damage) and other support based AT's already have access to these powers depending on their powerset choices.

So for the most bang for your buck you choose a scrapper/Blaster/Tank/Brute to do trials with so that you literally become the jack of all trades. Melee with range, pets, heals, shields, debuffs etc. It makes more sense to take these toons to trials because you essentially then can mimic other AT's, but have the added bonus of being melee, defense driven (In the case of Blasters and sometimes Corrs and doms, adding defense or protections to mez) AT's who have the survivability.

Incarnate benefits make these AT types better than any other AT types with the same incarnate abilities, just because it take them to a new level of versatility that other AT's will not enjoy.
Last I recall, everything you just said has been disproven. Has this changed? I know this was what people thought before, then it was said the reward table uses a RNG, and only if you sit idle do you get the 10 Threads table.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Last I recall, everything you just said has been disproven. Has this changed? I know this was what people thought before, then it was said the reward table uses a RNG, and only if you sit idle do you get the 10 Threads table.
Unless you gain rewards based on the individual team of 8 you are on, I can tell you straight up that my Emp defender who runs these trials a lot...or did, but focused on healing and buffing gets nothing but commons or threads.

If Im on my controller who does a ton of AOE style damage, I get rares or uncommons.

If this has been disproven then I suck it up and say I am wrong, but I have tried it both ways and Ill say it feels exactly the way I described it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
Unless you gain rewards based on the individual team of 8 you are on, I can tell you straight up that my Emp defender who runs these trials a lot...or did, but focused on healing and buffing gets nothing but commons or threads.

If Im on my controller who does a ton of AOE style damage, I get rares or uncommons.

If this has been disproven then I suck it up and say I am wrong, but I have tried it both ways and Ill say it feels exactly the way I described it.
Dev statements imply that it shouldn't work that way.

Actual player testing is very mixed. In my opinion it's likely that the devs are being honest and it shouldn't work that but some unintended consequence of the way the system works is hitting certain characters under certain play-styles, and not others.

But because of the sextuple-secret participation probation we're under in the trials, we have no way of figuring it out short of large-scale brute force mathematical analysis that so far not enough data has been collected into the same hands to seriously attempt.


"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."