Notice -> Emp Merit conversion
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-15 05:01 in Suggestions and Ideas
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I like it. It's the one thing people have been asking for, and now that they put it in place, it's complaints.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
No. No, no, no, no, no. Putting an inf cost on ANYTHING Incarnate related was a bloody stupiud and uterly arbitrary choice in the first place, one I find abhorent to its very core. Have you SEEN the Rare and Very Rare 'thread' conversions? There is absolutely nothing about those which is in any way reasonable. The seem to, unreasonably, assume that every characterhas Inf coming out the wazzoo and is just waiting to burn it.
And why would I bother doing the WST when I have no need for shards? 'Upgrading' shards to threads? 10:10 is the only decent conversion rate going, and I refuse to pay 2.5 million just to turn something utterly pointless into something I can use, when it should be a 1:1 upgrade for free. I get that the Incarnate stuff is challenging, hard, whatever. NONE of that equates to 'ripping me off hand over fist because we can!' And if it does, well that's a bloody stupid metric then, isn't it? |
People wanted influnece sinks.
Is the 400million to high? Probably. But that's for the tier 4, and people can get by with just the tier 3 just fine (hell they can get by with less, but I think you get the point).
We needed influence sinks so it wasn't just traded around. We got influnece sinks, and except for that one, the influence sinks really aren't that big.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Influence sinks should not be put on stuff like this. I, for one, don't have the influence to sink in the first place. 400million, for me, is all bar about 8mil on my main. I do have more kicking about, but it's also split over all my remaining toons.
Given the drop rates of Rares and Very Rares, especially on an MM, I would like to have a valid second option other than Emp Merits, which takes a LONG time to get a V.rare on, since I simply don't have the time to grind.
But no, apparently I'm meant to have millions to blow.
BS, I say. Inf sinks should be on optional things, not arbitrary gates to end game content when no other stage has such a gate, nor should it.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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/signed @ Notice = Emp = Alignment.
I'm fine with the costs where they are currently.
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WHO asked for that? |
Originally Posted by BrandX
I like it. It's the one thing people have been asking for, and now that they put it in place, it's complaints.
People wanted influnece sinks. Is the 400million to high? Probably. But that's for the tier 4, and people can get by with just the tier 3 just fine (hell they can get by with less, but I think you get the point). We needed influence sinks so it wasn't just traded around. We got influnece sinks, and except for that one, the influence sinks really aren't that big. |
People with so much inf they set prices in the AH however they want so everyone else has to gather all the inf their alts have together to afford something.
If you want less inf STOP PLAYING THE AUCTION HOUSE. Don't try to penalize everyone else, just because of your obsession.
My pet peeve is people who refuse to acknowledge it when I tell them my character has unlimited power. If I rp attack them they are of course disintegrated beyond the ability of any hospital or magic to restore. Yet despite this they refuse to delete their characters and still keep playing them as if nothing happened. ~Mandu, 07-16-2010
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You don't understand what's going on. We don't want less influence personally, we want less influence in the game. What drives prices high is the sheer amount of influence available. If anything, the market playing people are helping prices by removing influence from the game with the consignment costs.
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Originally Posted by Ashtoreth_NA
If you want less inf STOP PLAYING THE AUCTION HOUSE. Don't try to penalize everyone else, just because of your obsession.
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then let that be enough of an inf sink, 100 mil is an absurd price to pay for a rare on top of a bunch of uncommons
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
You don't understand what's going on. We don't want less influence personally, we want less influence in the game. What drives prices high is the sheer amount of influence available. If anything, the market playing people are helping prices by removing influence from the game with the consignment costs.
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The problem with the AH as an Inf sink is that it's a scalable inf sink. It serves to place a finite cap on the value of Inf since a single "new" inf can only purchase 10 inf worth of goods before being sucked out of the system but it doesn't really serve to reign in player earnings.|
Originally Posted by Cheetatron
then let that be enough of an inf sink, 100 mil is an absurd price to pay for a rare on top of a bunch of uncommons
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We've seen a lot of variation in item pricing due to shifts in player activities (the AE farming craze being the best example) and the problem is that with the market fees being the only major inf sink market prices tend to be heavily linked to the earning rates of players. As people earn more prices go up. Having additional inf sinks acts as a dampener for that, earning rates go up but more people use the other sinks which helps keep market prices more stable.
I don't feel particularly strongly one way or the other about this specific inf sink (I don't use it but I don't object to it) but I think having a high-end inf sink is useful for the game.
Looks like the Devs were more generous than that, in a way.
On Test, 1 Notice = 40 Threads. An Empyrean Merit is only 20 threads if used for that.
Admittedly, 1 Notice = Empy Merit would have allowed you to use 8 Notices for a Rare, but that's the trade off. 40 Threads for doing the WST seems fair to me.
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Does a favor of the well net you any threads?
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Originally Posted by Shagster
Looks like the Devs were more generous than that, in a way.
On Test, 1 Notice = 40 Threads. An Empyrean Merit is only 20 threads if used for that. Admittedly, 1 Notice = Empy Merit would have allowed you to use 8 Notices for a Rare, but that's the trade off. 40 Threads for doing the WST seems fair to me. |
Favor is worth 100 threads. Not worth it unless you're in a hurry.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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And thusly why you just runt he trials and get the components that way, instead of using the influence sink.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Influence sinks should not be put on stuff like this. I, for one, don't have the influence to sink in the first place. 400million, for me, is all bar about 8mil on my main. I do have more kicking about, but it's also split over all my remaining toons.
Given the drop rates of Rares and Very Rares, especially on an MM, I would like to have a valid second option other than Emp Merits, which takes a LONG time to get a V.rare on, since I simply don't have the time to grind. But no, apparently I'm meant to have millions to blow. BS, I say. Inf sinks should be on optional things, not arbitrary gates to end game content when no other stage has such a gate, nor should it. |
And the drop rates are the same for everyone according to everything I've read here on the boards. Don't sit around int he trials, and you get a chance at R/VR Components.
Random Number Generator is likely what you hate if you're not getting what you want.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
If you read Techbot's other posts you'll see that he has the amazing ability to be best friends with the 10 thread consolation prize.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
And thusly why you just runt he trials and get the components that way, instead of using the influence sink.
And the drop rates are the same for everyone according to everything I've read here on the boards. Don't sit around int he trials, and you get a chance at R/VR Components. Random Number Generator is likely what you hate if you're not getting what you want. |
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Originally Posted by Vanden
If you read Techbot's other posts you'll see that he has the amazing ability to be best friends with the 10 thread consolation prize.
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This is the thing. I am always lobbing myself into fights in the trials, using every damn power I can get away with.
And I have NEVER got a drop above uncommon. And the uncommons are literally just that. While other people gaff on about having to craft every single common (boo freaking hoo) the only reason I have two T3's is because of a MoBAF badge and 8 hoarded Emp Merits.
I'm sick to death of the bloody ITrials. I would be happy to kick Marauders ugly face in and throw him through a portal to god cares where and never see him again. Ditto Siege and Nightstar. At least with the Alpha slot I could choose a whole plethora of things to do and skip those I didn't facy?
Grind just makes me want to laser someone.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Well see, now you really don't know what you're talking about. Do I want less influnece? Do I play the auction house?|
Originally Posted by Ashtoreth_NA
WHO asked for that?
People with so much inf they set prices in the AH however they want so everyone else has to gather all the inf their alts have together to afford something. If you want less inf STOP PLAYING THE AUCTION HOUSE. Don't try to penalize everyone else, just because of your obsession. |
Here's how I play the auction house...
"Oooh! I want this! It's going for that?! WTF!" *looks at amount of influnece* "That just might take everything I have!"
*Place bid*
"Nope it didn't instantly give it to me, so I must cancel bid and bid more, because I must have it now."
*repeat untill I can't go higher, refuse to go higher, or I actually got what I wanted*
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Techbot Alpha - Influence sinks should not be put on stuff like this. I, for one, don't have the influence to sink in the first place. 400million, for me, is all bar about 8mil on my main. I do have more kicking about, but it's also split over all my remaining toons. Given the drop rates of Rares and Very Rares, especially on an MM, I would like to have a valid second option other than Emp Merits, which takes a LONG time to get a V.rare on, since I simply don't have the time to grind. But no, apparently I'm meant to have millions to blow. BS, I say. Inf sinks should be on optional things, not arbitrary gates to end game content when no other stage has such a gate, nor should it. |
Dont let my high end scrapper build fool you, I am not sitting on billions of influence. I don't play the market. I do lots of level 50 TFs, hope for a decent Purple Recipe and then sell it, hoping to get enough for what I want OR do hero merits.
Now, if I sold one of those PvP IOs I slaved away with Hero Merits to obtain, Id have some influence for all of 2-3 hours, because as I previously mentioned, I buy at the Auction House at buy now prices
So after all that, and I'm okay with it! \o/ Keep the influence sink.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Don't grind. Nothing in game has you needing those Tier 4s right away except for you wanting all the shinies now.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Not quite true, V, but I did get the ten threads when I'd been trying as damn hard as I DO every trial (thank YOU cheating Praetorians and your hax accuracy...)
This is the thing. I am always lobbing myself into fights in the trials, using every damn power I can get away with. And I have NEVER got a drop above uncommon. And the uncommons are literally just that. While other people gaff on about having to craft every single common (boo freaking hoo) the only reason I have two T3's is because of a MoBAF badge and 8 hoarded Emp Merits. I'm sick to death of the bloody ITrials. I would be happy to kick Marauders ugly face in and throw him through a portal to god cares where and never see him again. Ditto Siege and Nightstar. At least with the Alpha slot I could choose a whole plethora of things to do and skip those I didn't facy? Grind just makes me want to laser someone. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Interestingly, a rare can be made from 340 threads + 100 million influence. 8 Notices will convert to 320 threads, so not all that far off from meeting the thread requirement. Many people in beta complained much more loudly about never being able to get the vast amount of threads needed in the system than the influence costs (yes, some complained about the influence too, but the thread cost was the bigger complaint).
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Originally Posted by Shagster
Admittedly, 1 Notice = Empy Merit would have allowed you to use 8 Notices for a Rare, but that's the trade off. 40 Threads for doing the WST seems fair to me.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Excuse me? Have you tried taking a Bots/Traps IO'd to the gills through Lambda recently?|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Don't grind. Nothing in game has you needing those Tier 4s right away except for you wanting all the shinies now.
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I habitualy get utterly gutted, shot down, gunned up, stomped, mauled, maimed, burned, lasered and missiles into itty-tiny bits because, hey, Defences don't count versus Praetorians! Especially not Praetorians that have a higher base accuracy than anything else in the game, spam AoEs like they are going out of fashion, and do enough damage to one shot my poor MM with ALL his pets up, IN Bodyguard mode.
'Need'? If I want to play this 'super shiny awesome content' without getting immensely frustrated, then yes, I need at the lest the T3 stuff. And how do I get that? Oh, yes, thats right; grind the two trials for it.
There is no way out of this. Its circular, self eating logic and it fails so hard it makes my brain ache. To make the trials suck less, you need the loot. Whats the only REALISTIC way to get the loot? Do the trials!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yes I have and even before I got my level shifts it wasn't that bad. Between careful inspiration usage and a lot of pet resummoning I was able to give what I consider a fair accounting of myself. I'm sorry that you found it rough going but please do not assume that everyone else had the same problem.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Excuse me? Have you tried taking a Bots/Traps IO'd to the gills through Lambda recently?
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You don't need to grind it. You can do the content once a day! That's not grinding. Or even every few days, and build your way up.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Excuse me? Have you tried taking a Bots/Traps IO'd to the gills through Lambda recently?
I habitualy get utterly gutted, shot down, gunned up, stomped, mauled, maimed, burned, lasered and missiles into itty-tiny bits because, hey, Defences don't count versus Praetorians! Especially not Praetorians that have a higher base accuracy than anything else in the game, spam AoEs like they are going out of fashion, and do enough damage to one shot my poor MM with ALL his pets up, IN Bodyguard mode. 'Need'? If I want to play this 'super shiny awesome content' without getting immensely frustrated, then yes, I need at the lest the T3 stuff. And how do I get that? Oh, yes, thats right; grind the two trials for it. There is no way out of this. Its circular, self eating logic and it fails so hard it makes my brain ache. To make the trials suck less, you need the loot. Whats the only REALISTIC way to get the loot? Do the trials! |
Nothing says you have to do it 6 or more times a day.
And yes, i realize the Trials become so much easier when the team is outfitted with more and more of their incarnate abilities at higher levels.
But they're obviously beatable without them, and now that others have them, you can team up with those who are outfitted with them.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Having to do them every day is grinding. I work 40 hours a week, and have to take care of my family in my free time. This plan is not casual friendly.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
You don't need to grind it. You can do the content once a day! That's not grinding. Or even every few days, and build your way up.
Nothing says you have to do it 6 or more times a day. And yes, i realize the Trials become so much easier when the team is outfitted with more and more of their incarnate abilities at higher levels. But they're obviously beatable without them, and now that others have them, you can team up with those who are outfitted with them. |
And thinking you can control economics so easily is a fool's game.
My pet peeve is people who refuse to acknowledge it when I tell them my character has unlimited power. If I rp attack them they are of course disintegrated beyond the ability of any hospital or magic to restore. Yet despite this they refuse to delete their characters and still keep playing them as if nothing happened. ~Mandu, 07-16-2010
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Personally and looking at the time gates and ratios I'd like to see one Notice be converted into 8 Empyrean Merits. Reasons being:|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Suggested by @SP on Union.
Simply put, allow a 1:1 conversion from a Notice of the Well to an Empyrean Merit. No strings attached, no stupid and prohibitive inf costs that make no sense. Just let the WST reward be converted into something useful past Alpha slot. Simple. |
- you get one Notice per week. In that same amount of time you can potentially get 14 Empyrean Merits.
- one Notice converts to (or is used to buy) one Rare component. You need 8 Empyreans to buy a Rare component.
At the same time, I'd also like to see one Favor being converted to 30 Empyrean Merits. Reasons being:
- you get one Favor per two weeks. In that same amount of time you can potentially get 28 Empyrean Merits.
- one Favor converts to (or is used to buy) one Very Rare component. You need 30 Empyreans to buy a Very Rare component.
Yes, yes... when pigs fly I hear you say. I'd still like to see it though.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
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Ideally, yes. But that would apparently upset the quation that we're meant to suffer through this sytem if we don't have the Luck of the Devil or patience to do the same damn thing day in day out.
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Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
Personally and looking at the time gates and ratios I'd like to see one Notice be converted into 8 Empyrean Merits. Reasons being:
- you get one Notice per week. In that same amount of time you can potentially get 14 Empyrean Merits. - one Notice converts to (or is used to buy) one Rare component. You need 8 Empyreans to buy a Rare component. At the same time, I'd also like to see one Favor being converted to 30 Empyrean Merits. Reasons being: - you get one Favor per two weeks. In that same amount of time you can potentially get 28 Empyrean Merits. - one Favor converts to (or is used to buy) one Very Rare component. You need 30 Empyreans to buy a Very Rare component. Yes, yes... when pigs fly I hear you say. I'd still like to see it though. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Bah.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
You don't need to grind it. You can do the content once a day! That's not grinding. Or even every few days, and build your way up.
Nothing says you have to do it 6 or more times a day. And yes, i realize the Trials become so much easier when the team is outfitted with more and more of their incarnate abilities at higher levels. But they're obviously beatable without them, and now that others have them, you can team up with those who are outfitted with them. |
I'm bored to death of those trials already. And I've only actually unlocked the alpha slot and Judgement. (And they both only have a tier 1 ability slotted.)
And I am already so sick of those two trials that I haven't logged back onto my Brute for two weeks, despite having a ways to go.
I didn't run them 6 times a day. Even running them once a day has bored me to tears of them.* If this is 'end game content' then please count me out.
(*: I've only run the Lambda twice, to be honest. That trial is less 'Bored of it' and more 'I'm not masochistic enough to keep subjecting myself to this POS.')
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
Or just let us convert shards to threads for 1:1. Given how rarely shards drop in comparison to threads, I hardly see how this could be considered broken...