Your datalink goes nowhere. Can you post the data chunk?
Offhand I am surprised to hear you've tanked the ITF, as Willpower can have problems with the heavy defense debuffs there -- I have not tried it yet myself, but am concerned about my own Scrapper's performance there. How did it go? Did you rely mostly on the regeneration?
Giving the build a very cursory glance, I see a lot of sets that give positional defense -- this surprised me, as Willpower gives you decent typed defense, and I'd have thought you'd be better off building for that. I am interested in plugging this build into Mid's and seeing the totals.
I don't mean to sound like I'm doubting you -- the build probably performed well for you. I like Claws/WP more than I expected to, myself. I'll look over your build in more detail when I can get it into Mid's and see if I have more concrete suggestions.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Okay, I'm going to be blunt, so please don't take it as an insult, as it isnt my intention.
That is, to be perfectly honest, one of the most asinine ways to build a Willpower character I've seen in a long time. I'll explain why that is so.
1) You wasted a LOT of slots chasing positional defense. Your Melee defense is sitting at 31.2%, Ranged at 23.7%, and AoE at 20%. Every single one of your typed defenses is higher than those, with the exception of melee and smashing/lethal, meaning all that positional defense you dedicated those slots to is doing precisely nothing.
In case you don't know how it works, I'll tell you WHY it is doing nothing: The game only checks against whatever defense is highest. So if you are attacked by a ranged/energy attack it will check against your energy defense of 35.3% and completely ignore your ranged defense of 23.7%
2) You didn't slot High Pain Tolerance for Healing, instead choosing to boost the tiny amont of resistance it gives you. Willpower survives by regenerating. More HP means more regeneration. High Pain Tolerance boosts your max HP, which you do by slotting for healing. See the problem there?
3) You slotted Follow Up with a full set of Gaussian's. Nice bonuses, and it will boost the hell out of your accuracy, but how exactly do you expect to hit with Follow Up consistently when the set you slotted has no accuracy enhancement in it? Since you wil be using Follow Up a lot, you should make sure it is actually worth using as an attack too. Doesn't make much sense to use a power that boosts damage if using that power lowers your damage output because it isn't slotted for damage itself.
4) You slotted Focus with 2 Thunderstrikes.....and nothing else. Focus is one of your best attacks, and you completely gimped it.
5) Why the bloody hell did you 5 slot Combat Jumping with Serendipity?!? Combat Jumping gives you 1.875% defense. Those 5 slots boost it to....2.936% You spent 4 slots and a full set of Serendipity to get 1.061% defense. The set bonuses aren't even helping you either. 4% regen is not even noticable on a WIllpower, and the AoE defense is doing nothing for you because all your typed defenses are higher than 20%
6) With your current slotting, you don't even break 1,000% regeneration with 10 targets in range of Rise to the Challenge. I shoot for at least 1,100%, and my currently planned build will break 1,200%. 1,000% regeneration in a crowd is a minimum for Willpower, and you're the first person I've seen in a while that didn't hit it by accident.
7) Your Hit points, with accolades turned on, is sitting at 1984.8. My Dark Armor scrapper has more than that, and Willpower should be able to blow Dark Armor out of the water on HP total without even really trying to.
About the only thing you did right in that build is slotting Reactive Armor in your resistance toggles, and you slotted 1 too many of them. More than 4 slots of Reactive Armor is a waste, because you don't get any more resistance for the 5th slot, and I've already explained why the 1.25% AoE defense bonus is useless.
I'm not trying to be mean about this, but what you've done here is completely ignore Willpower's strengths to chase a bunch of set bonuses that are doing absolutely nothing. Seriously, the game is outright ignoring all that positional defense you wasted all those slots getting.
To be perfectly frank, I'm wondering how much support you had when you were tanking that ITF, because I have serious doubts about this build's ability to do it by itself. In fact I would go so far as to say there is no way in hell this build is tanking an ITF without support, and a lot of it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Okay, I slapped a build together for you that illustrates what I'm talking about.
Bring them up side by side and compare the two. My build has better defense, regeneration, global recharge, and is less than 100 HP away from scrapper HP cap. (it has 2,330 HP)
Numerically speaking, it is better than your build in every measurable way, but it is significantly more expensive as well (no purples or PvP IOs though). Fortunately, all the stuff I used in the build can be gotten with Alignment merits to save you some cash.
Not trying to make you feel bad or anything, but I think if you used my build here to learn from you will find that your scrapper will get a lot better. It makes me sad when I see people slotting Willpower characters for positional defense and ignoring what Willpower is good at (regen, max HP, and typed defense)
Also, look at how much more efficiently I used my slots. I wasn't chasing a bunch of 6 slot bonuses, which lets me slot some of my other powers (like Focus) to actually make them useful. I didn't put more than 4 slots in any of my defense or resistance powers, and most of my attacks got all the set bonuses they needed out of 4 as well (the extras are to give the powers themselves better enhancement)
Without further ado:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.94
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), HO:Nucle(37)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(3), Numna-Heal/Rchg(3), Heal-I(25)
Level 2: Slash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), HO:Nucle(37), Achilles-ResDeb%(50)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(5), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(5)
Level 6: Spin -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(7), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(7), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(40), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 8: Follow Up -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Rec'dRet-ToHit(39), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(39)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 12: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(15)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(17), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), Heal-I(46)
Level 18: Focus -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Dev'n-Hold%(43)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-End%(21)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(45), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 26: Eviscerate -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(27), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(27), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(46), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), HO:Enzym(29)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(31), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(33), HO:Enzym(33)
Level 35: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(36), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(43), GSFC-Build%(50)
Level 38: Strength of Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(42)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), P'Shift-End%(45)
Level 47: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(48), LkGmblr-Def(48)
Level 49: Vengeance -- Empty(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(A), Efficacy-EndMod(23), P'Shift-End%(23)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Thanks, ClawsandEffect, but no thanks. You may dislike how I've chosen to build the character, and you may think it's "wrong" because it's not the way you did it, but the fact stands that it's a build that works absolutely perfectly for me. Saying "No offense, but..." means that you KNOW that everything following that statement is offensive, and you seem to have worded your post to be as offensive as possible, throwing around words like "asinine" and phrases like "better than yours in every measurable way". I've spent a year and a half on this toon, building and rebuilding and refining it to what I want it to be, and I didn't ask for "help", I simply posted it as something that other people might be interested in seeing. Thank you for reminding me why I never post anything in this section of the forums-because it's the only place I seem to run into opinionated, pretentious players who refuse to entertain the notion that there are multiple ways of building a toon and as long as they work for the person who plays them, who cares if they're perfect?
The fact that you felt you needed to "slap together a build" tells me you don't have a Claws/Willpower scrapper. I don't try to advise people on how to build their Warshades, because I don't have any; I think it's awfully pretentious to think you can just "slap together" a build and say it works when you don't have, and have not played, that particular build.
I actually had no trouble not only tanking the ITF, but stealing aggro from the two brutes who were on the team with me at the time-both of whom expressed surprise that I was able to steal aggro from them at all on a scrapper, let alone a WP scrapper. We had no support at all. I also tanked an LGTF two nights ago, which is less impressive just because psychic damage hardly touches me at all. My Follow Up rarely misses, if ever, and that helps my other powers along quite nicely.
I have tried building this toon out focusing on resistance and typed defenses, and I hated it. It was expensive, clunky, and annoyingly squishy. Now, I die maybe once a night, if that, and since I have a self rez I'm not terribly worried about it. It's an inexpensive build that works for the way I play it.
City of Heroes taught me that when the world is burning, you don't just stand by and watch, you grab a fire extinguisher and do whatever you can to stop it-even if it's not much at all. Sign the petition to keep City of Heroes alive HERE.
@MissKyo, Leader of the Teamsters coalition on Protector
I miss Umbral. 
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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This can be true. There are many things in the game that can do surprisingly unexpected things, however, that doesn't make them the best, or even remotely close. What Claw was trying to bring across to you is the level of difference in how you slotted, versus what isn't even optimal, but generally just the better approach for a Willpower toon. The delivery may not be kid-friendly, but unfortunetly I can see from just from the enhancement list that the quality of defense you strove for in your build is far from the opposite of what Willpower even uses. The Secondary focuses on three things: High Regen, Typed Defense, and Some Resistances; in that order. What you've done is tried to pull Positional Defenses into a build that cannot properly use them because it has no base to go off of.|
Originally Posted by DJKyo
Thanks, ClawsandEffect, but no thanks. You may dislike how I've chosen to build the character, and you may think it's "wrong" because it's not the way you did it, but the fact stands that it's a build that works absolutely perfectly for me. Saying "No offense, but..." means that you KNOW that everything following that statement is offensive, and you seem to have worded your post to be as offensive as possible, throwing around words like "asinine" and phrases like "better than yours in every measurable way". I've spent a year and a half on this toon, building and rebuilding and refining it to what I want it to be, and I didn't ask for "help", I simply posted it as something that other people might be interested in seeing. Thank you for reminding me why I never post anything in this section of the forums-because it's the only place I seem to run into opinionated, pretentious players who refuse to entertain the notion that there are multiple ways of building a toon and as long as they work for the person who plays them, who cares if they're perfect?
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Let me go a bit into detail on the defense thing. Typed: Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Psionic. Positional: Melee, Ranged, AoE. Smashing and Lethal damage are the two most common types and attacks with them fall under all three positional types often, however, if an attack comes swinging at you and is Melee Positional with Smashing Damage, the game is going to look at all of your defense categories and check for which one has the most percent points. So, lets say you had 20% Melee and 35% Smashing. The game will see Smashing is higher and run the defense roll against it. If all of your typed defenses are higher than all of your positional ones, then the game will never use them. This is what Claw was trying to bring across to you. You spent a LOT of effort putting Positional defense into a build that the game will NEVER use.
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Originally Posted by DJKyo
The fact that you felt you needed to "slap together a build" tells me you don't have a Claws/Willpower scrapper. I don't try to advise people on how to build their Warshades, because I don't have any; I think it's awfully pretentious to think you can just "slap together" a build and say it works when you don't have, and have not played, that particular build.
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Originally Posted by DJKyo
I actually had no trouble not only tanking the ITF, but stealing aggro from the two brutes who were on the team with me at the time-both of whom expressed surprise that I was able to steal aggro from them at all on a scrapper, let alone a WP scrapper. We had no support at all. I also tanked an LGTF two nights ago, which is less impressive just because psychic damage hardly touches me at all. My Follow Up rarely misses, if ever, and that helps my other powers along quite nicely.
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Originally Posted by DJKyo
I have tried building this toon out focusing on resistance and typed defenses, and I hated it. It was expensive, clunky, and annoyingly squishy. Now, I die maybe once a night, if that, and since I have a self rez I'm not terribly worried about it. It's an inexpensive build that works for the way I play it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Not gonna post my claws/wp as it's too expensive (i mostly exemp with it and i love purple recharge bonuses for lowbie spin) but I'd highly recommend you working shadow meld into the build - it's great for eating alphas before you get into RTTC range and is also a good emergency button.
Also wp really can't have enough hp/regen so I'd definitely echo the heal set in HPT (I have 3 numina there). At 50 mine gets 2364 hp and 47 hp/sec with RTTC turned off in mids, and I wish I could have gotten more in since i could only get s/l defense to 35 on it.
You have the main thing down though which is you're being happy with your build 
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No, I did not word it to be as "offensive as possible" If that was my intent, I could have done a much better job of it. I worded it to be HONEST. If I think someones build is bad, I don't sugarcoat my opinion of it. I could have just said "your build sucks" and left it at that, but I went to some effort to explain WHY your build is bad. Nice to see that my effort and honesty were appreciated. |
Originally Posted by DJKyo
you seem to have worded your post to be as offensive as possible, throwing around words like "asinine" and phrases like "better than yours in every measurable way".
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As far as the words that I was "throwing around" go:
Asinine: This is my opinion. The way you built your character, in my opinion, is asinine.
"better than yours in every measurable way": Yeah, you removed the first part of that sentence, which defines the context in which I was saying it. Those words were "numerically speaking". The sentence was: "Numerically speaking, my build is better than yours in every measurable way"
"better than yours" is an opinion, but "numerically better than yours" is an observable and provable fact. ALL I was saying there was that my build had better numbers, that's it. You can look at it yourself and SEE that my build has better numbers.
If you want to get offended by what I said, that's fine, you have every right to get offended by whatever you like. But if you're going to get offended by something I said, get offended by what I ACTUALLY said. Don't CHANGE what I said to MAKE it offensive. By removing the first two words of my sentence you completely changed the context and meaning of that sentence into something offensive, when what I actually said shouldn't be considered offensive. Well, unless you are routinely offended by the truth, that is.
I can understand getting offended by someone saying "my build is better than yours" because that is subjective. But, that's not what I said. I said my build was NUMERICALLY better than yours, and that is just the cold hard truth. My numbers ARE better. That is the ONLY thing I meant by that statement.
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| The fact that you felt you needed to "slap together a build" tells me you don't have a Claws/Willpower scrapper. I don't try to advise people on how to build their Warshades, because I don't have any; I think it's awfully pretentious to think you can just "slap together" a build and say it works when you don't have, and have not played, that particular build. |
In game, the brute will perform better because it's higher HP will make the regeneration more effective. That's really the only difference between them.
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| I have tried building this toon out focusing on resistance and typed defenses, and I hated it. |
The game checks against whatever defense is highest, and ignores ANY other defenses that may be present. Your typed defenses are still higher than your positional defenses, even though you went to all that trouble to add positional defense to it, so the game will NEVER check them at all. As far as the game is concerned, that positional defense DOES NOT EVEN EXIST.
It's not about what I think is the right way to do something, it's about the FACT that the game is ignores positional defense when typed defense is higher. That is NOT my opinion, and is NOT subject to argument. That is simply how it works.
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Originally posted by John_Printemps If all of your typed defenses are higher than all of your positional ones, then the game will never use them. This is what Claws was trying to bring across to you. You spent a LOT of effort putting Positional defense into a build that the game will NEVER use. |
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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The funny thing is, I was NICER about that than Umbral would have been. |
Originally Posted by Werner
I miss Umbral.
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Umbral often seemed to actually revel in people getting pissed at him for the way he said things.
I really wasn't trying to be a dick, it just got taken that way.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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While I agree with most of what you said, and while I think the OP is obviously over reacting and not open to good advice, when you call someone's build 'assinine' (even if it is assinine...), you generally won't get a positive reaction, even if you soften it with a 'no offense' or something similar, lol.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The funny thing is, I was NICER about that than Umbral would have been.
Umbral often seemed to actually revel in people getting pissed at him for the way he said things. I really wasn't trying to be a dick, it just got taken that way. |
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Umbral was into shock therapy and tough love. "Your build sucks, here's why, and here's how to fix it." And if you disagreed or got upset, he was perfectly happy to jump straight to mockery. Thing is, if you could get past all that, he was a very well-informed and helpful guy. A lot of people just couldn't get past HOW the information was presented, and he'd have probably done better with a softer tone, but he just didn't have the patience for it. I understood where he was coming from. He was my anti-hero, I guess, the forum supervillain I couldn't be.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The funny thing is, I was NICER about that than Umbral would have been.
Umbral often seemed to actually revel in people getting pissed at him for the way he said things. I really wasn't trying to be a dick, it just got taken that way. |
And yeah, you'd only be Umbral if you now turned to outright contemptuous mockery.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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I really see nothing I could accomplish by doing that. I suppose it could be amusing, but I've pissed the OP off enough at this point.
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Originally Posted by Werner
And yeah, you'd only be Umbral if you now turned to outright contemptuous mockery. |
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I'm going to cross server threads here...it's late......and I'm bored....
As a player on Champ server, and a pvp'er on champ and several other servers I deal with builds and mids all the time...
Just reading the post.....I can understand posting a build for a critique but unfortunately in a forum arena such as this it's just ASKING to be scrutinized....
BUT!
The main rule is: It's not the build it's the player....
If it's working for her, on her budget .....and you doubt it....team and run with her and go from there...don't hate on statistics because...yes I know...shocker....Mid's can be wrong....
I can see concerns about her build but for me on any of my wp's I would NEVER slot that many kin combats....so with that, just to reiterate....again...not the build it is the player....
As far as support vs. tanking an STF I tank LR all the time on my D3 fender with 1 emp...I've been a party of an all 'fender STF that ran better than any prodominately melee team....under 25 mins actually....
So don't harp or 'critique' to harshly just because it isn't something you do for yourself....I have my own opinions about the build but I'm a wait and see kind of girl
Modir vid Braije lvl 50 DM/SD scrap
Sinny-Redux lvl 50 fire/regen scrap
Sinny Sonancy lvl 50 rad/sonic fender
"Greatness is fleeting! but Obscurity is FOREVER!!" Napolean Bonaparte
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But the thing is, this is about the build. The player may have built it, but this is about the build. There is no "mids could be wrong" in this situation. This is a statement of hard-core game-engine-designed-fact. The positional defense scrapped tooth and nail for in that build, are wasted. No one's trying to "harp" or "'Critique'", this is an attempt at flat out saying "Please, take this advice, it will benefit you."|
Originally Posted by Sinny
The main rule is: It's not the build it's the player....
If it's working for her, on her budget .....and you doubt it....team and run with her and go from there...don't hate on statistics because...yes I know...shocker....Mid's can be wrong.... I can see concerns about her build but for me on any of my wp's I would NEVER slot that many kin combats....so with that, just to reiterate....again...not the build it is the player.... So don't harp or 'critique' to harshly just because it isn't something you do for yourself....I have my own opinions about the build but I'm a wait and see kind of girl |
This may be beating a dead horse, though, as I doubt the OP will return with a post :/
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Player/Build whatever kind of pillow you want to curl up on at night....
The point was...it works for her....
Saying "Please take this advice" is a critique....end of.....
As far as her build YES I could make suggestions and YES I would LOVE to say 'what I would do"
But what I would do....isn't her....and thats the point...
P.S....If I listened to everybody and what they thought was 'right' and 'good' about a build....I wouldve left the game years ago. Point remains...Yes the build has flaws from how I (me, myself and I)would run it, Don't discount how I read it...I wouldnt build for positional on a WP Either....but Game mechanics says I shouldnt pvp with a rad/sonic fender...but I do...Mids is flawed as nearest as they can be...If you doubt it...stop number crunching and watch....and just.....see!
Modir vid Braije lvl 50 DM/SD scrap
Sinny-Redux lvl 50 fire/regen scrap
Sinny Sonancy lvl 50 rad/sonic fender
"Greatness is fleeting! but Obscurity is FOREVER!!" Napolean Bonaparte
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Game mechanics doesn't have anything to do with whether you should PvP with a Rad/Sonis defender. Other PvPers say you shouldn't, but they only view a select number of builds as viable for pvp anyway. I've PvPed with one myself. I've found they suck in zone PvP but they're awesome for 1v1 arena duels. |
Originally Posted by Sinny
I wouldn't build for positional on a WP Either....but Game mechanics says I shouldnt pvp with a rad/sonic fender...but I do...Mids is flawed as nearest as they can be...If you doubt it...stop number crunching and watch....and just.....see!
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It's not about Mid's being wrong either, because Mid's does not decide how defense works in the game.
Have you looked at the OP's build? Positional defense is in the 20's, while typed defense is in the 30's. The OP was building for positional defense, and even said so.
It's not a matter of "I want to use this defense instead" because the game is completely ignoring the positional defense in favor of the typed defense which is higher. That's what I was trying to get across: It doesn't matter if her build works for her...because her build is NOT WORKING AT ALL.
Her build is STILL using the typed defense numbers, regardless of her preferences in the matter, because that is how defense works in the game. All that positional defense? The game has never used it, and it never will.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Game mechanics does not account for player ability.|
Originally Posted by Sinny
Game mechanics says I shouldnt pvp with a rad/sonic fender...but I do
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A good player on a weak build > A weak player on a good build.
A good player on a great build > everyone else.
"Goodbye, Jean-Luc. I'm gonna miss you... you had such potential. But then again, all good things must come to an end..." -- Q
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Mid's can be wrong, but the bugs are usually more subtle. For instance, I noticed recently that Mids' was including a 6% healing bonus in its calculation of how much Reconstruction heals. Reconstruction, though, has a resistance component, so the game itself doesn't allow the healing buff since it isn't a pure healing power. It makes a difference of I think 20 hit points on my Katana/Regen.|
Originally Posted by Sinny
The main rule is: It's not the build it's the player....
If it's working for her, on her budget .....and you doubt it....team and run with her and go from there...don't hate on statistics because...yes I know...shocker....Mid's can be wrong.... |
I think what you may have meant was "people who look at a Mids' build and think they know how it will play in the game can be wrong." That's certainly true. The more experience we have, probably the better we are at predicting in-game performance by looking at a Mids' build, but we can indeed be wrong.
And it also leads into your point about the player making a big difference. I have no idea how Iggy Kamakaze does what he does with some of his builds. I'm not saying his builds suck - they're great builds. But he still does more with them than I think I could do with them. But an awesome player with a bad build is still just an awesome player with a bad build. Being an awesome player doesn't make your build good.
Heck, I would even describe some objectively bad builds as good builds. For instance, my Fire/Shield is squishy and has poor DPS (objectively bad), but I still consider it a good build. Why? Because it's a concept build, and to match concept, it has only sword attacks in melee, and no heal. But within those serious constraints, it's been highly optimized with the help of the community.
Some things are matters of player preference and opinion, and a player with a certain play style may do better with some things that are, on paper, suboptimal. For instance, maybe I'm not as good as some at timing my Regeneration clicks, so perhaps I'm better off with more defense and passive regeneration and less recharge than an optimal build. It's still valid for the community to say "that's suboptimal and this would be better" just as it is valid to reply "I tried that, and this suboptimal approach actually works better for my personal play style for this reason." Other things, though, are simple basic facts about the game, like how defense is applied when the game calculates the chance of an enemy to hit you.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Exactly what I was trying to express. I don't really care if someone chooses to build some particular way because it suits their playstyle better. I do it myself all the time. |
Originally Posted by Werner
Other things, though, are simple basic facts about the game, like how defense is applied when the game calculates the chance of an enemy to hit you.
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But slotting a Willpower character for positional defense under the impression that it is even doing anything is kind of silly.
That's not a matter of building to suit your playstyle, because what you built for is being ignored by the game in favor of the defensive values that are higher. You don't get to decide that the game will use your positional defense values simply because you want it to. It is going to use whatever value is highest, in this case that is the typed defense.
It would be one thing to build for positional over typed on a character that has little or no native defense (Werner and my Sword/Dark characters would be a prime example of this), it is another thing entirely to build for positional defense on a character that is designed to use typed.
What the OP did is similar to slotting Kinetic Combat and Eradication on an SR, you end up with mediocre defense all around rather han playing to that set's strengths. Slotting Ice Armor and Energy Aura for positional would be the same kind of thing.
If the character were viable with positional defense, I wouldn't have said anything. But the OP posted a build that new players will likely see and think that would be a good way to slot a Willpower character, and regardless of what the OP has achieved with the character, it is wasting slots and enhancements on set bonuses that are doing literally nothing at all.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Shockingly I do know by now how defense is applied to in the game...Give me some credit before you skim over my post and wait to type...
I said I would NOT build a wp like that, in fact I've NEVER seen a wp built like that and WORK....my point was if she's claiming it IS in fact working for her....then go team with her...or test it for yourself....Yes, wp is not designed to work like the way her build is set...but like it was said in a previous post....it may look 'suboptimal' on paper...but could perform *shrugs*
Afterall, communism looked good on paper....
Modir vid Braije lvl 50 DM/SD scrap
Sinny-Redux lvl 50 fire/regen scrap
Sinny Sonancy lvl 50 rad/sonic fender
"Greatness is fleeting! but Obscurity is FOREVER!!" Napolean Bonaparte
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If this was in response to my post, I really have no idea how you could take my post to be telling you that YOU don't know how defense works. I tried rereading it, but can't see it at all. The only thing I can see even vaguely close was "Other things, though, are simple basic facts about the game, like how defense is applied when the game calculates the chance of an enemy to hit you." In context, it certainly seemed clear to me as a writer that this was given as an example of things that are facts vs. things that are opinions, as I'd just given a similar example of something that would be player preference and opinion. And that the more general context was in discussion of the OPs build. That I replied to you didn't mean that every comment I made in the post was directed specifically to you and that I was implying negative things about your knowledge or skills. But that's me as a writer. Perhaps it read differently.|
Originally Posted by Sinny
Shockingly I do know by now how defense is applied to in the game...Give me some credit before you skim over my post and wait to type...
I said I would NOT build a wp like that, in fact I've NEVER seen a wp built like that and WORK....my point was if she's claiming it IS in fact working for her....then go team with her...or test it for yourself....Yes, wp is not designed to work like the way her build is set...but like it was said in a previous post....it may look 'suboptimal' on paper...but could perform *shrugs* |
Now, I think you were responding directly to ClawsAndEffect's post, so maybe this was directed at him, but that's even more confusing to me. He was responding to me instead of you, and I thought was clearly discussing the OPs build, and continuing on the idea of what was preference vs. what was simple fact. Again, I see nothing in there indicating that you personally don't know how defense works.
On to the next point, you say we should team with her or test it ourselves, but since we all know how defense works, there's no need for me to go test it myself. Unless the game's rules changed in a recent patch, or Mids' is displaying the positional and typed defenses incorrectly and the positional defenses are actually higher, we know that the positional defense isn't doing anything, right? That's one point from my most recent post. In this case, this is a fact of the game, not a player preference. There's no need to test unless we suspect a Mids' or game bug. Do you suspect a Mids' or game bug?
Mind you, sets with positional defense bonuses have smaller typed defense bonuses. So it isn't that the sets are useless (they aren't), just that they aren't doing what it seems like the OP thinks they're doing. Also, I've never successfully seen the OPs build since there was no link and no data chunk, and my attempts to import from the description failed miserably. So I'm just going on second hand information here. Apologies if I'm misunderstood anything due to lack of first hand information.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
I took a few minutes to actually recreate the build in Mids, slot for slot. |
Originally Posted by Werner
Also, I've never successfully seen the OPs build since there was no link and no data chunk, and my attempts to import from the description failed miserably.
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Melee: 31.2% Ranged: 23.7% AoE: 20%
S/L: 29.1% E/N: 35.4% F/C 31.5%
The only time the game will ever use the positional defense over the typed is in the case of pure smashing or lethal melee attacks. And the positional only beats the typed by 2%.
Max HP: 1984.3
Regen: 984% (with 10 in range of RttC)
Resistances are at about the average for Willpower, so the difference isn't being made up there.
I REALLY don't see how that build could tank an ITF without a lot of support, or munching inspirations like they're going out of style. With only 31% defense max to the attacks the Romans use cascading defense failure is almost guaranteed to happen nearly immediately, and the build doesn't have the HP and regen to back it up.
The OP said they did it, and I'm not disputing something I didn't see. But I don't see how it could be possible to do without a lot of support filling the holes in the build.
Edit: I'm not saying the build couldn't work just fine running missions, and I'm sure it could even survive an ITF, the only thing I'm doubting is it's ability to TANK an ITF. I'm NOT calling the OP a liar, I just don't see how it could do it, unless the OP is just THAT awesome of a player.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I use to go searching for Umbral's post for some good laugh... 
Okay, Claws, I'm looking at your build vs. mine, and (moving past the positional vs. typed defense; if my typed defense is STILL higher than my positional defense, I don't know why you're making such a big hairy deal over it) here's what I see:
-It's way more expensive. Kinetic Combats? Hami-Os? LotGs? If I could afford that, I wouldn't be building cheaply. As it is, I can't afford that, because I have about four other builds I'm juggling as I level toons into IO set ranges.
-Yes, you have higher typed defenses than I do, but not by very much-only 3% in most cases, everything but S/L. Yes, S/L is the most prevalent damage type in the game, but I spend most of my time on that toon beating on psychic characters, preferably Arachnos and Rikti.
-Resistances are lower on your build than mine, though not by much, only by about 2%. Does the slightly higher defense make up for the slightly lower resistances? I'd say they about even out, really.
-Yes, you have more regen than me. Way more than you should ever need. What on earth are you fighting that's hitting you often enough to need almost 100 HP back per second? I'd like to know, because I'd like to try it on my build and see how I stack up. Oh wait, that's because you have your RttC saying you have 10 people on you at once, and mine says I only have one. So really, it's not much different.
-Your build has more enduse than mine and more recovery. I actually don't have a problem with my endurance at all on my build. I don't see any reason to put slots into Stamina, since it's really hard to give a WP toon much of an endurance problem without some serious recharge (or doing what I did once-giving it so many toggles it can drain its end bar standing still).
-I don't understand why you put Physical Perfection on that build. See my last two points as regards regen and recovery.
-Okay, you have more recharge. That could account for a need for more recovery, but not that much more. Claws is a pretty fast set anyhow.
-You have more ToHit. Fantastic. But you took Focused Accuracy to get it-which is another toggle you don't really need. I've had it on this toon's past builds, and I found it to be largely useless unless fighting someone with Elude. Even then I still had to pop some yellows. Elude is badass like that. Also, you slotted Recitifed Reticle: Increased Perception in it, which only gives you another 100 ft. of perception over my build. You don't need 1142 feet of perception, especially if you don't PvP. I don't PvP often enough, or seriously enough, to care. EDIT: Also affected by the Gaussian's proc, see Damage two points down.
-You has less Accuracy than I do. The way I understand this to work, ToHit is the opposite of Defense in that it raises your toon's ability to hit things by a fixed amount, and Accuracy changes how often an attack hits by adding a percentage of itself, so 50% ToHit > 50% Accuracy. Okay, I can see slotting for ToHit over slotting for Accuracy, but I don't really miss that much anyhow the way I have attacks slotted, so how much do the bonuses listed as "ToHit" and "Accuracy" really matter?
-Your Damage mod is way higher than mine-102.5% as opposed to 34%. However, I'm not sure I see where you're getting them from in the build. EDIT: Actually, a friend just pointed out to me that you're getting that from the Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control: Chance for ToHit. I don't have that bonus toggled on on my build, because I can't count on it firing every single time.
-Powers and enhancement-wise, I've already said that I don't see the use in putting extra slots in Stamina, or in taking the Body Mastery pool (I've had it before, and it's blah) and slotting it. Setting those aside, I don't see the point in slotting the Achilles Heel: Chance for Res Debuff in Slash. It only has a 20% chance to hit, and it really seems like a waste of a perfectly good slot to me. Also, most of the Claws powers have been slotted for way more damage than they can actually deal, thanks to ED. It's just more wasted slots to keep putting in more Damage enhancements those powers can't use. I didn't take Strength of Will because I never, ever use it. I hate the scrapper Tier 9s with a vengeance, and even when I did have it originally, I only used it after using my self-rez in a mob to give me time to get my toggles on. I didn't take the Leadership pool for the bonuses-I took it as a concept power for this toon. Yes, I pick my powers based on how I roleplay a toon sometimes-it may not be the "best" way, but it's a way that helps me enjoy the toon more when I don't have to explain mysterious spare powers floating around. It's also why this toon is only Alpha slotted-which I notice your build doesn't have, by the way. I have the Cardiac Core Paragon slotted-no wonder you need so much more recovery, I didn't even notice it til now.
Okay, there you go. I looked honestly at your build versus mine, past how utterly offensive I found your initial post, and I still don't really see how it's "better" than mine. It may work better for you, and that's wonderful! It may work better for "most" people, and that's fine too. I would say, however, that on any given day, if you'd like to venture over to Protector and team with me, my build's effectiveness and efficiency would surprise you.
City of Heroes taught me that when the world is burning, you don't just stand by and watch, you grab a fire extinguisher and do whatever you can to stop it-even if it's not much at all. Sign the petition to keep City of Heroes alive HERE.
@MissKyo, Leader of the Teamsters coalition on Protector
I made my claws/willpower scrapper, Tam Blackthorn, about two years ago, and ever since she hit 50 I've been respeccing, respeccing, respeccing.
After 12 respecs and extensive testing, I can finally say I'm done. I tanked an ITF and then an STF last night. I'm pleased to present to you Tam v. 13.0, her final build!
It's relatively inexpensive-she's cost me over 4 billion influence total, but this build was only about 500 million. I did reuse some of her old enhancements, so that might not be a completely accurate total.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Tam Blackthorn XIII: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strike
- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (46) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (48) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (48) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (50) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/Endurance
- (3) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
Level 2: Slash- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (45) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (45) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (46) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
Level 4: Mind Over Body- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (5) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
- (5) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (27) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (34) Reactive Armor - Endurance
Level 6: Combat Jumping- (A) Serendipity - Defense/Endurance
- (7) Serendipity - Defense/Recharge
- (7) Serendipity - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (9) Serendipity - Defense
- (9) Serendipity - Endurance
Level 8: Spin- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (34) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (36) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (37) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
Level 10: Fast Healing- (A) Miracle - Heal
- (11) Miracle - +Recovery
- (11) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (13) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
Level 12: Indomitable Will- (A) Serendipity - Defense/Endurance
- (13) Serendipity - Defense/Recharge
- (15) Serendipity - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (15) Serendipity - Defense
- (27) Serendipity - Endurance
Level 14: Super Jump- (A) Jumping IO
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge- (A) Miracle - Heal/Endurance
- (17) Miracle - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (17) Miracle - Heal
- (23) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff
- (25) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
- (25) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
Level 18: Follow Up- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (19) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (19) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (21) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (21) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (23) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
Level 20: Quick Recovery- (A) Endurance Modification IO
Level 22: Confront- (A) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
Level 24: Focus- (A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (50) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Level 26: Eviscerate- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (37) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (40) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (43) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (45) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
Level 28: Heightened Senses- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (29) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (29) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Red Fortune - Defense
- (31) Red Fortune - Endurance
Level 30: Kick- (A) Pounding Slugfest - Disorient Bonus
Level 32: Tough- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (33) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
- (33) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (33) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (34) Reactive Armor - Endurance
Level 35: Resurgence- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 38: Weave- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (39) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (39) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (39) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (40) Red Fortune - Defense
- (40) Red Fortune - Endurance
Level 41: Maneuvers- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (42) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (42) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (42) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (43) Red Fortune - Defense
- (43) Red Fortune - Endurance
Level 44: Assault- (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
Level 47: Tactics- (A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff
- (48) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance
Level 49: Vengeance- (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
Level 50: Cardiac Core ParagonLevel 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
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Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Critical HitLevel 1: Sprint
- (A) Run Speed IO
Level 2: Rest- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 4: Ninja RunLevel 2: Swift
- (A) Run Speed IO
Level 2: Health- (A) Healing IO
Level 2: Hurdle- (A) Jumping IO
Level 2: Stamina