I don't think you'll see any complaints from Thugs MMs. Quite the opposite, I'd say among MM enthusiasts that Thugs is regarded as a candidate for top MM set, comparable to Robots and perhaps Demons. They're definitely much superior to Mercs.
To go over enumerated questions:
1) Mercs are not so underperforming. By that I mean, you can make a Merc/Dark and handle any content 1-50. Merc/Dark will take longer to get through a mission than Thugs/Dark, but it will get the job done.
2) Thugs are absolutely worth it. The pets are well behaved with one notable exception (Arsonist). Tons of aoes with some fire damage thrown in.
3) Gang War has base recharge of 600 seconds so you can easily get it to 300 seconds, if that's a priority for you. As for secondaries, I think they both are well served by secondaries that help them survive, since they don't have much for self-maintainability (like bots or demons). So Thermal, Traps, FF, Pain Dom. Still, anything will work.
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Looking at your response for thugs sounds like tar patch would be a good power to increase the damage of their AoE by slowing down the runners. Looking at the numbers with lets say 3 recharge and hasten I may be able to get gang war back faster. Are there powers that are known to stay away from in the Thug set?
Well, Tar Patch is awesome regardless of primary. The -Res debuff makes the Thugs do more damage, just like any other henchmen would.
To the question of powers to avoid from Thugs, I'd say it boils down to if you want to have attacks or not, which is entirely up to you. I've seen MMs on these forums vehemently say "NO, MMs should NOT take personal attacks." I say "whatevah". I've never taken attacks from Thugs, but not because of some fundamental "MM's don't attack" philosophy, rather they just didn't fit in to the build.
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Just my two cents, regarding attacks in MMs' primary sets (any primary):|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
To the question of powers to avoid from Thugs, I'd say it boils down to if you want to have attacks or not, which is entirely up to you.
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Take them at the lower levels, that will help supplement the fewer pets you'll have.
Respec' out of them around mid-game (level twenty-ish) in favor of support Power Pools like Leadership.
Just a suggestion, mind you, YMMV...
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Firstly, welcome to the madhouse! My first villain 50 was a Zombie/Dark MM and I still play him often.
As other have said Thugs is a solid set. However as with most MM sets controlling the pets will add a lot of fun and survivability. The MM Forums have several good Guides as to how to do this but I have some faves that I use on all my MMs:
1) Edit the 'Attach Aggressive' button from the MM control panel to 'Attack Defensive'. This way you target an enemy, hit 'Attack' and the pets do their thing. But when the target is defeated they return to Defensive status automatically without you having to recall them or hit 'Follow'.
2) Edit 'Follow Aggressive' button to 'Follow Defensive' will mean that the pets will attract less aggre as you move.
3) Using a 'Go To Aggressive' command will enable you to place the pets in a specific spot where they will attack enemies on their own. I set the key for my Thug Brute only, buff him and then send him is as a pseudo-Tank. This gets him into melee faster and lets him do what he does best, damage. It also preserves the other pets for a while.
4) I always take at least one offensive power on my MM just for something to do truth be told. I've seen my friend sit on his Bot/FF and do the Read Newspaper emote during the fight. My own Bot/FF is stuck at lvl 44 because he's boring compared to my other MMs. My Zombie/Dark, on the other hand, is ALWAYS busy. His only Primary attack is Gloom and I often use it to finish off a runner while the pets fight a Boss or something. However this is a matter of personal taste. Don't let others tell you how they think YOU should play. If you're having fun you're doing it right.
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And when he says respec, remember you have alternate builds available at level 10 which aren't too costly to slot up with DOs, SOs, and generic IOs to see how an alternate build might work.|
Originally Posted by Archiviste
Just my two cents, regarding attacks in MMs' primary sets (any primary):
Take them at the lower levels, that will help supplement the fewer pets you'll have. Respec' out of them around mid-game (level twenty-ish) in favor of support Power Pools like Leadership. Just a suggestion, mind you, YMMV... |
I would add; Thugs/dark is a recharge intensive combo; you want to wind up the gang war and the dark click debuffs on a tight little timer.
Necro/dark is a special breed, too. The tactic is to keep moving. It's a set I leave the grave knights on aggressive and follow them around destroying my foes. When the little zombies move from range to melee, it's a good thing. They mix up their attack damage types from toxic ranges attacks and cones to melee smashing. The increase in the size of twilight grasp's heal radius is a big boon to the necros.
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Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
for a large majority of my mm, i almost always have at least 1 personal attack, my main actually has 3 non incarnate attacks on his 2nd build (5 non incarnate attacks on his main build)
for my MM experience, i overall treat my pets as meatshields and aggro magnets, if they die, idc ill just resummon them, if they are dying a lot i dont even bother to train them and just keep sending more fodder into the cannon lol
mm class has always appealed to me because of the pets, i love pets, and i wish all my toons had pets like my mm
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As a bit of YMMV, I find having the attacks (or at least *a* attack, such as Gloom, that does a little DOT) to be very helpful with things like Raider Engineers or Communications Officers - just in case the pets miss or chase something else. Just something to let me interrupt. |
Originally Posted by Archiviste
Just my two cents, regarding attacks in MMs' primary sets (any primary):
Take them at the lower levels, that will help supplement the fewer pets you'll have. Respec' out of them around mid-game (level twenty-ish) in favor of support Power Pools like Leadership. Just a suggestion, mind you, YMMV... |
(And, regardless of numbers, I seem to take the attacks in Necro more than in any other set besides Demons.)
If you want them for the heck of it, or "something to do" (which you won't find a shortage of things to do with /dark,) don't sacrifice more useful powers for them. Just don't expect to do massive damage to anything but randomly threatening post-it notes with them.
So ive been playing for a many years now and never really went beyond Brutes or Blasters but now i really want a complete change in roles. Ive been reading as much as i can come across int he MM forum and it seems to me that Necro, Demons and Bots are the top performers. I have not seen to much on Mercs or Thugs....is this a concern?
1) I looked at the Mercs and they look really cool but are they that underperforming in play even with DM as secondary?
2)Are thugs worth it even though they like Mercs have the most resisted damage type?
3)Would any secondary help improve these two MM's in game play and how quick can one get gang war to recharge?
Im currently working on a Necro/DM type that is cool so far and loving most of the play even though they are fairly squishy which is ok since all I have to do is rez more. I have found that playing in bodyguard is definetly more beneficial then just sending them in to attack, this tactic really seems to help them last longer. Would appreciate any feedback or point in the reight direction for info.