Back in Beta the devs apparently said that it was random. It's possible that it was changed to be contribution based but I've yet to see any compelling evidence on way or the other.
Anecdotal evidence would tend to support the randomly generated theory since I've seen at least one thread claiming that defenders were getting screwed on the rewards whereas my defender has gotten very lucky (3 very rares out of 8 runs).
I can 100% confirm this. There is no way in hell it is random. I have done 30+ Trails on my bots storm, and have had all common reward tables apart from about 4.
In contrast, my blaster, pretty much got uncommon or rare EVERY time. And only got 2 common tables in the same amount of tfs.
Someone was saying its based on damage done? Which is a total joke, cuse my MM pumps it out. Not to mention..doesnt this screw over all teh support people??
My current guess, MisterD, is that it's based on a few factors, largely damage, healing, and perhaps damage taken. But I don't think it's counting damage from pets or summons, is the issue. I can't confirm this, of course. It could be random and we just have the worst luck. It seems quite the coincidence, though. That's why I'm looking for other people's experience.
Also, I'm going to track the rarity level of each trial reward I get on my MM, I've decided. Just to see what the numbers for that character start shaping up as.
Yeah could be factors I guess. But even when my blaster didnt have his two lvl shifts, judgement etc etc..I was getting rares.
And my mm still doesnt..and he heals, debuffs, kills loads.
Especially on BAF, where my mm and blaster would basically do the same thing..atatck the avs.
Don't the Praetoria events ignore pets when calculating contribution? Or was that fixed?
If not, I'd not be surprised if that's transferred to trial rewards, as stupid as it'd be.
It seems really streaky in general and, sometimes the streak seems tied to a particular alt, almost like you have a personal random seed that is used for determining your rewards.
On my scrapper, I do not think I have ever gotten a common reward roll, not one. And he has all his t3s unlocked. He has most definitely not gotten a single vary rare. I'd say about 70/30 uncommon/rare.
The two doms I have started in on have both gotten commons. The second dom, on a Lambda last night got two shards and a Very Rare. In addition to being the first Very Rare I've gotten on any alt in who knows how many runs, it was also the first shard I've gotten in a trial - and I got two!?
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
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Fixed. So long as you're actively issuing commands, not just leaving them on Defensive or Aggressive.|
Originally Posted by Biowraith
Don't the Praetoria events ignore pets when calculating contribution? Or was that fixed?
If not, I'd not be surprised if that's transferred to trial rewards, as stupid as it'd be. |
I have had a single Rare reward table, and the rest Commons. Seems fine to me - common table is indeed common
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That would seem fine to me if it weren't for the fact my Crab, Defender, and Bane have all seen uncommons most of the time, with the occasional rare and common. To be honest I think I've seen rares drop more often than commons on them, though that may be perception bias. The Crab's the one I've run the most (enough to get a tier 4 interface and tier 3 in the rest) and I think he's seen maybe 3 commons as end-of-trial rewards.|
Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
I have had a single Rare reward table, and the rest Commons. Seems fine to me - common table is indeed common
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I've not done enough runs of my MM to get much of a sample size (I just started running them on my MM today, out of curiosity after this thread), but so far commons seem to be a lot more common than on my other chars.
I've gotten about 65/35 for Uncommon and Common, and 3 rares on about 40-50 runs on my ice/storm/ice controller. Not sure if there is a participation based reward, but if pets don't count, do pseudo pets not count? It would be an entire slap in the face to MMs that henchmen don't count for rewards contribution, and any other AT that uses pets (or pseudo pets).
Someone also remarked that debuffs counted less than buffs, and damage was counted more heavily than buffs or debuffs. Also, no one was certain if level shifts gave better/worse chances to the tables.
It would be valuable if a red name made any posting clearing up the air with this since there may be a lot of misinformation out there.
I'm hoping that it's 100% random tbh, because contribution based systems almost never turn out fair - every game I've seen them in so far there's stuff that in reality are valuable contributions but which aren't rate highly (if at all) in the contribution system. And as much as I have faith in our devs, I don't really expect they'd crack it where everyone else has failed, especially with all the ways you can contribute in this game.
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Does "defensive goto" break bodyguard?
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Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
Fixed. So long as you're actively issuing commands, not just leaving them on Defensive or Aggressive.
I have had a single Rare reward table, and the rest Commons. Seems fine to me - common table is indeed common |
I did my first Trial run with my Mastermind last night and got a reward window that had Threads and Super Inspirations as my only options. I hope this is indeed a bug. If not, this may be the end of the road for my Mastermind.
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I've heard of people getting this - is this the "you've been shafted" table, ostensibly for people who AFK a trial or something?
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Originally Posted by Darkbridger
I did my first Trial run with my Mastermind last night and got a reward window that had Threads and Super Inspirations as my only options. I hope this is indeed a bug. If not, this may be the end of the road for my Mastermind.
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Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
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I did not AFK the Trial (Lambda). I died a LOT, particularly during the temp power gathering stage. Consequently, I spent a LOT of time in the hospital and/or summoning pets. During the rest of the Trial I was targetting and ordering pets to attack, but the league make up was such (lots of Judgements unlocked) that most groups were more than half dead by the time my robots engaged. Was the contribution minimal? In that particular league, no doubt it was. But short of being AFK the entire time, anyone in a Trial should, at minimum, get the common table, which is why I really hope this is a bug and not a "feature".
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Originally Posted by Lobster
I've heard of people getting this - is this the "you've been shafted" table, ostensibly for people who AFK a trial or something?
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Sorry, I did not mean that to disparage you, I was just asking what the "point" of that table was, as I know it exists.
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Originally Posted by Darkbridger
I did not AFK the Trial (Lambda). I died a LOT, particularly during the temp power gathering stage. Consequently, I spent a LOT of time in the hospital and/or summoning pets. During the rest of the Trial I was targetting and ordering pets to attack, but the league make up was such (lots of Judgements unlocked) that most groups were more than half dead by the time my robots engaged. Was the contribution minimal? In that particular league, no doubt it was. But short of being AFK the entire time, anyone in a Trial should, at minimum, get the common table, which is why I really hope this is a bug and not a "feature".
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Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
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Defensive/Stay, Defensive/Goto, and Defensive/Follow all provide bodyguard mode protection. Only Defensive/Attack breaks it. If you happen to be out of BG mode, and you need to reengage it while keeping your henchmen attacking, issue a Defensive/Goto command and they will continue to attack unlike a */Follow command will. |
Originally Posted by Cheetatron
Does "defensive goto" break bodyguard?
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I thought I was the only one suffering with bad reward tables! I'm glad to see I'm not. I am not willing to say that the table AREN'T random just yet, but my friend got 3 very rare tables in a row last night and he was on a brute. Where as, I was providing a healing blanket (Bots/Dark - God I love the increased radius on Twilight Grasp!), and major Res/Dam/Regen for everything while also dissing out a good amount of damage from my pets. My reward for the like 40+ runs? Two or Three rares and a a 3 to 1 ratio on uncommon to commons.
Not only that, my brute friend has gotten about at least 4 of each rare. He complains to me about the shortage of commons he has. I want to reach through the Internet and slap him.
What Master Zaprobo has me thinking though. I noticed my friend (the brute) spent more time with two sequestration rings from the AV on him than anyone else in the trials. So I'd say he had the AV's attention several times, keeping it off of the squishier classes. I would also bet he also pumped out one of the highest DPS during the trial. So I'd say he was doing a Brute's Job pretty well. I'll try to abandon my own logic and assume it's not random by issuing a variety of commands to by pets and see if that makes a difference. Maybe being a more active Mastermind, as far as pets go, will grant me extra karma for the reward tables.
At this point I'll go buy a rabbit's foot. if that helps...
-Simon
Fwiw, the results of my Bots/FF MM running the BAF today:
Common
Common
Uncommon
Common
Common
Uncommon
Rare
Uncommon
If it continued like that, eh, it's still more Commons than I'm used to on my other chars, and it does seem a little odd that it happens to be my MM that's getting them, but it's not bad enough for me to be majorly concerned - I did pretty much exactly the same thing each run so there definitely seems to be some level of random in there. I intend to continue to track what I'm getting though, just out of curiosity.
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I figured that would come across wrong. I was simply clarifying what happened... no disparaging was inferred. |
Originally Posted by Lobster
Sorry, I did not mean that to disparage you, I was just asking what the "point" of that table was, as I know it exists.
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In my opinion, when someone gets a table, they should also get the ones below it. So, if you get the uncommon, you could also pick a common component instead. Get a very rare, then you can pick anything. So far, the entire system is incredibly unfun, regardless of the Trials themselves (which CAN be fun, but usually aren't).
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Originally Posted by Biowraith
Fwiw, the results of my Bots/FF MM running the BAF today:
Common Common Uncommon Common Common Uncommon Rare Uncommon If it continued like that, eh, it's still more Commons than I'm used to on my other chars, and it does seem a little odd that it happens to be my MM that's getting them, but it's not bad enough for me to be majorly concerned - I did pretty much exactly the same thing each run so there definitely seems to be some level of random in there. I intend to continue to track what I'm getting though, just out of curiosity. |
Commons are pretty useful though, more than uncommons (once you have the 4 or 8 that you need - which isn't that hard), at least. I think uncommons break down for 8-10 which, most of the time I would just be using to craft half a common with.
This will be more useful you get data from other ats in addition to the MMs, so we have some kind of comparison. I probably won't start my MM until next week, but until then I'll try and keep track of what I get.
One thing to think about - if it is contribution based, then I would think that characters with ++ should get better drops than those without (?). However, for my scrapper going from +0 to +2 does not seem to have changed the quality of his drops. I haven't been paying attention on my dom, but I'll try to watch for it when I get my other T3.
Also, I am a little crazy about data, so I will note ATs, + status and drops from other league-mates when possible.
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
Wow I didn't know about the pets. I actually was Tanking Darkstar at one point and I got one of those super inspirations choices. I really, really just have zero clue about what the rewards are and if they are good or bad. Still trying to wrap my head around this whole new system.
But I am big on follow Defensive and then force my pets to attack after provoking mobs onto me. Basically my pets are reacting to me getting attacked. Which means that sucks for me. 
No wonder I wasn't getting too many reward with my defender and such..
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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Depending on how much the AVs are debuffed and if you're actively tanking all of the AV's aggro, I find Bodyguard mode pointless in the BAF. On my Bots/Dark, I just order them to keep attacking one AV or I sometimes split them up between the two of them on the final phase. If the AV happens to hit me, it's so low as to be a fart in the wind. I have yet to die in a BAF, including the times where my idiots teammates had me sequestered. That being said, if I noticed something about to hit me really hard (like the guard towers of death), I had BG mode at my fingertips ready to go.|
Originally Posted by plainguy
Wow I didn't know about the pets. I actually was Tanking Darkstar at one point and I got one of those super inspirations choices. I really, really just have zero clue about what the rewards are and if they are good or bad. Still trying to wrap my head around this whole new system.
But I am big on follow Defensive and then force my pets to attack after provoking mobs onto me. Basically my pets are reacting to me getting attacked. Which means that sucks for me. No wonder I wasn't getting too many reward with my defender and such.. |
-Simon
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Yeah, at the moment I just have my memory as to what my other chars were getting, and that's not the most reliable source - the MM is the first of me actually writing the results down as I get them.|
Originally Posted by Lobster
This will be more useful you get data from other ats in addition to the MMs, so we have some kind of comparison. I probably won't start my MM until next week, but until then I'll try and keep track of what I get.
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My Defender did get some memorable results when he started though - first Lambda was a Rare, then I ran 3 BAFs and got Uncommon, Very Rare, Very Rare. Alas, it hasn't continued quite so well - I just logged him off from a string of 4 BAF runs and it was uncommon for all 4.
I am pretty sure my Crab hasn't had more than 3 Common reward tables in the time it's taken him to get a t4 + 3 t3s though - he went through so many Uncommons and Rares that I had thought Uncommon was the minimum and the first Common table was a surprise for me. But once you have 8 Uncommons yeah, Common is probably more valuable.
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I have been doing the turnstile runs so out of 15 LAM I was on one successful one and on the BAF out of 6 or 7 I was successful about 3 or 4 times. I didn't think of going to pocket D to get a team until someone mentioned it in another thread.
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Originally Posted by SimonSayz
Depending on how much the AVs are debuffed and if you're actively tanking all of the AV's aggro, I find Bodyguard mode pointless in the BAF. On my Bots/Dark, I just order them to keep attacking one AV or I sometimes split them up between the two of them on the final phase. If the AV happens to hit me, it's so low as to be a fart in the wind. I have yet to die in a BAF, including the times where my idiots teammates had me sequestered. That being said, if I noticed something about to hit me really hard (like the guard towers of death), I had BG mode at my fingertips ready to go.
-Simon |
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
I run my bots storm out of BG mode all the time..I never use it. And pretty sure psuedo pets dont count..on Lambda runs, fro the glowies, I dismiss all my pets and just use hurricane/tornado/lightning storm to help scatter mobs at crates.
As another sample..started my scrapper today. One common reward, one ultra rare, 6 and 6 uncommon and rare. Surely a sample like like, assuming it was random, would have more commons. I think the systems just screwy
So I'm curious if the other incarnate trial running MMs out there are seeing any of this, or if I'm just having supreme bad luck. My Bots/Traps has run a few dozen trials now, and not once have I seen a better reward table than Uncommon. While my defender who has probably run half as many gets the occasional Rare. Now, I know my sample size is fairly small, so I'm certainly not ruling out crappy luck. However, I remember a couple of months ago there was an issue with masterminds not getting proper contribution from their pets for Praetorian zone events. (I don't know if this was ever fixed, I took a break.)
So I can't help but wonder if since almost all my contribution is from pets and summoned things, I'm getting shorted on however the reward tables are figured. If any of you have noticed anything correlating this, or for that matter refuting it, I'd be glad to hear it. I'd also be interested to know what secondaries seem to be getting more rewards. I know a bots/FF friend of mine is having a similar issue.