Got Windows XP SP2? You *can* run i20.
By
ArcticFahx,
Posted on: 2011-04-06 12:07 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Mixing core system dlls from different versions of windows is a surefire way to cause instability and compatibility issues with your machine. Not to mention that it will probably break future patching, or at least itself break if you apply patches in the future.
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Instability and compatilibity issues: didn't notice any while playing with the VM for an hour; Windows still reports SP2's version (I checked, and you can see it on the screenshot) so software that checks for SP3 before calling SP3 functions would still not call SP3 functions, and cause no problems. I ran Adobe Audition 3.0, Chrome 10, Firefox 4, Office 2007 Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Publisher, Picasa 3, Skype, Steam, Winamp 5.61, Windows Live Messenger, Photo Gallery, Writer, Windows Media Player 9 and probably a few others I'm forgetting with no issues.|
Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
Mixing core system dlls from different versions of windows is a surefire way to cause instability and compatibility issues with your machine. Not to mention that it will probably break future patching, or at least itself break if you apply patches in the future.
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Also, if you do run into instability? Easy to revert.
Breaking future patching: what future patching? We're talking about people who didn't install SP3 to begin with; if they were patching they wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
In addition: kernel32.dll SP3 has only four new functions, with every other function having identical arguments to the SP2 version. The four new functions are: GetLogicalProcessorInformation, GetProcessDEPPolicy, GetSystemDEPPolicy, SetProcessDEPPolicy. The latter 3 concern Data Execution Prevention, a feature that was introduced in SP2; I quickly checked and the functions can be executed with no errors.
Conclusion: still worth a try (again, if you know what you're doing).
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Might try this as a last resort if Paragon Studios can't fix the problem, but doubtful as it might introduce more problems than SP3 could. Windows 7 will be my PC's next upgrade, not SP3. Since that isn't happening in the near future, Issue 20 might really be the endgame (for now). At least they'll still have me subscribed for the Vanguard Pack. 
I appreciate the effort you put into this, Leandro.
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You're probably right; but it's one of those things that, 6 months down the line, will end up causing some non-obvious issue that you never link back to it because you've forgotten you ever swapped the files over - and there's nothing more annoying that trying to troubleshoot something like that |
Originally Posted by Leandro
...Conclusion: still worth a try (again, if you know what you're doing).
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glad to hear someone found a work-around. luckily i did what Microsoft told me not to and it seemed to work fine: download the SP3 patch directly and apply it myself. took almost an hour between the DL and install and no obvious problems so far - and CoX finally ran.
the devs should have realized this would be an issue and some warning, preferably a week or two beforehand. its not like the game can't recognize which version of Windows we're using, and probably the devs can see it too. they should have known they were calling a command that only exists in SP3 and that they have many users still on SP2.
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This is what people who are having install problems through Windows Update should do.
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Originally Posted by Soul_Stormer
glad to hear someone found a work-around. luckily i did what Microsoft told me not to and it seemed to work fine: download the SP3 patch directly and apply it myself. took almost an hour between the DL and install and no obvious problems so far - and CoX finally ran.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Do note that the only real reason Microsoft have that "don't use this for a single machine" notice on the SP3 download page is because the network installer is a bigger download and requires more user interaction to install than if you get it from Windows Update. It does, however, have the advantage of saving you from having to download it multiple times if you have multiple PCs and providing infinitely better error reporting if anything goes wrong during the update. Plus, if you want to, you can use it to make a slipstreamed "XP with SP3" install disc.
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Originally Posted by Soul_Stormer
glad to hear someone found a work-around. luckily i did what Microsoft told me not to and it seemed to work fine: download the SP3 patch directly and apply it myself. took almost an hour between the DL and install and no obvious problems so far - and CoX finally ran.
the devs should have realized this would be an issue and some warning, preferably a week or two beforehand. its not like the game can't recognize which version of Windows we're using, and probably the devs can see it too. they should have known they were calling a command that only exists in SP3 and that they have many users still on SP2. |
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^ This. Very very VERY bad idea. Don't FrankenPatch. That way lies reisntalling Windows.
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Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
Mixing core system dlls from different versions of windows is a surefire way to cause instability and compatibility issues with your machine. Not to mention that it will probably break future patching, or at least itself break if you apply patches in the future.
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@FloatingFatMan
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Can't be any worse than how Vista handles I20. 100% guaranteed crash every time I leave the hospital in the BAF or Lambda. Good thing there's a "rejoin" button.
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
^ This. Very very VERY bad idea. Don't FrankenPatch. That way lies reisntalling Windows.
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That's a more general problem the devs are already looking at, than anything specifically to do with Vista.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Can't be any worse than how Vista handles I20. 100% guaranteed crash every time I leave the hospital in the BAF or Lambda. Good thing there's a "rejoin" button.
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@FloatingFatMan
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Nonsense. If you run into instability, you just put the old version of the file back in. And in this case, like I've mentioned, the only difference between the two files is four new functions which all work; the other function calls are identical. This isn't a Windows 2000 or Vista file; the version difference is minimal (5.1.2600.2180 to 5.1.2600.5512).
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
^ This. Very very VERY bad idea. Don't FrankenPatch. That way lies reisntalling Windows.
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Originally Posted by Leandro
Nonsense. If you run into instability, you just put the old version of the file back in. And in this case, like I've mentioned, the only difference between the two files is four new functions which all work; the other function calls are identical. This isn't a Windows 2000 or Vista file; the version difference is minimal (5.1.2600.2180 to 5.1.2600.5512).
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No, I just don't dismiss a potential solution or workaround because of a general feeling that it's a bad idea. It's true that different versions of core DLLs can cause issues; but that doesn't mean every single file change will cause the doom of the system; I prefer to look at each case individually. I looked at the function exports for both versions, and found that they are identical except for the four new functions. I tested the four new functions, and they worked. I then ran a bunch of programs at once and messed with their various functions, and didn't find any problems. Since the change is easy to revert, there's nothing to lose by giving it a try.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Are you a wizard?
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This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
Thanks Leandro,
I for one will be applying this quickfix myself.
As for Spad & FFM, of course, FrankenPatching is *conceptually* a Bad
Idea for stability and future issues. On that, we basically agree, and I, like
the OP wouldn't recommend it for anyone but knowledgeable sysadmin types.
However, here's the mitigator.
1> We already HAVE those issues now ... ie. this game won't currently run,
period. That's a showstopper already -- for CoH players.
2> For those savvy enough to understand what Leandro is talking about,
this is a very quick, minimal cost, *relatively low-risk* approach, and we
already know that, at some point, the OS will need to be changed.
For me personally, I have 4 PCs on a home/hobbyist network all on SP2.
Why? Because, I have zero software on any of those machines that
requires anything more.
Now, a $15 / month *game* is mandating change?
Sorry, my don't-care meter is in the red on that. YMMV.
No other software I currently have requires SP3 at all (and I have a lot
of stuff on there including one dual boot dev box for .NET, Perl and
Android tinkering, along with a linux server and my gaming machines).
CoH is the only consistently problematic/unstable software I have currently.
While I'm budgeting for some new PC builds down the road (with a migration
to W7 when I do), that's a way down the road and, at my option, when
I feel it's worth it, cost-wise and time-wise, not NCsoft's - especially for
a game...
If this quickfix allows that game to run in the meanwhile, without
damaging anything else, super.
If not, NCsoft will be SoL for my business. A $15/mo *game* is NOT worth
the hours needed to update my entire network when nothing else needs
it, and it's currently functional and stable without it. Again, YMMV.
So, again, Leandro, thanks for your work-around and testing on this - you
may have saved NCsoft at least one subscription.
Cheers,
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As a follow-up, this post http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=257229
indicates that they are going to correct the XP issue so that the game won't
require SP3 (for I20 at least).
Personally, I applaud that as an excellent business decision by NCsoft/devs.
Kudos!
Regards,
4
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Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
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Good job Leandro.
The fact that you are helpful where you can be is awesome. There are some that absolutely have to be negative, and offer nothing to a conversation.
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I appreciate the post.
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And if you know what you're doing and are willing to accept that risk then nothing is stopping you. However, running an internet-connected OS that is no longer patched is a bad idea; always. If you're smart then you can mitigate the risks to an extent, but it's still a bad idea.|
For me personally, I have 4 PCs on a home/hobbyist network all on SP2. Why? Because, I have zero software on any of those machines that requires anything more. |
If you don't know what you're doing, then it's an extremely bad idea and so far, most people who have reported having this issue haven't known what they're doing (and that's not to disparage them in any way, simply a statement regarding their specific knowledge regarding the internal workings of Windows and the way it's patched and supported) hence the approach taken by most of the people providing them with support.
All that said, it's still no bad thing that NCSoft are hotfixing the launcher (presumably something as simple as an "if > XP SP3" check before running the processor lookup) because it allows more people to play the game without issue.
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There will be a patch on April 7th to fix this issue. No need to mess with your system files if you can wait that long.
TL;DR: copying kernel32.dll from the SP3 install package into the SP2 system32 and dllcache folders allows you to play COH and does not cause any issues in the system.
I used to work IT, so I have a ton of VMs from these days. I decided to boot XP SP2 see what happens when I tried to launch I20 in it. Sure enough, I got the same error message others are getting:
Sorry about the Spanish, but I live in Latin America. The screenshots are illustrative anyway, so it doesn't matter; just note the displayed version both in the desktop and in the kernel32.dll properties.
Now, here's the trick: if you download the Windows XP SP3 installer and run it, it'll expand a lot of files to a temporary folder. Among these files, you'll find the new kernel32.dll from SP3. You can also grab this file from another XP SP3 computer, of course; or what I did, which was put the XP SP3 slipstreamed install CD into my drive, and copying the file \i386\kernel32.dl_ to the VM's hard disk, then execute expand kernel32.dl_ kernel32.dll in the command line to uncompress it.
Any way you do it, you want to have the kernel32.dll file from SP3 somewhere accessible; I put it on the C:\ root.
Now, you have to put this file in place of the SP2 file. It will be in two locations: \windows\system32, and \windows\system32\dllcache. You can't do this while Windows is running, so you have two options:
1) Boot from a Linux Live CD. Then use its file manager to copy the new kernel32.dll to the above locations; make a backup of the original in case you need to revert this change.
2) Boot from the Windows XP install CD, then run the recovery console and copy the file using the command line. This is what I did:
Press "R" here.
These commands will make a copy of the old kernel32.dll as kernel32.sp2 and then copy the new file from the C:\ root into both locations.
After that, reboot the computer, and try to launch COH again:
Error is gone. Note that the desktop version is still SP2, but the kernel32.dll version is now newer.
Of course, this being a VM with generic video drivers, the game couldn't actually run:
But on a real computer with updated drivers, this wouldn't be an issue.
I played with the VM for about an hour, installing and running all sorts of programs, and I had no difficulties. However, if you do run into any problems, this change is easy to revert: just boot back into your Linux Live CD or Recovery Console, and put the SP2 kernel32.dll back, deleting the SP3 one.
Disclaimer: if everything that I said above sounds like chinese to you, especially the command line part, don't try it. This post is mostly to inform people who already know how to do these things that yes, it will work if you do it.
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This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!