How should a DS/DM slot?

Im new to the MM AT and am used to building farmers.. its fun to me. but I liked the idea of having a large group of helpers with me while I hin a x8 spawn so I made a MM... I love the /dark pools for the CC and -toHit..

I think I picked out all the abilities I want, but when I started setting up sets in Mids.. I realized I didnt know what I should be slotting for.. I normally go for S/L defense cap.. but wasnt sure if I should be going for ranged cap, or none at all... Im also trying to go for regen to perma hasten.. not sure if that was needed.. and if im not going for S/L cap, then I need to rethink my build as I went with combat jumping,fighting pool, and mace mastery for the scorpion shell... ohh and I took Maneuvers and assault.

Ive tried reading the forums a bit and decided I liked the sound of the DS/DM build.. but I didnt see any specifics on the playstyle/build combos.. it was either "here is my build, what do you think" or.. "I love my DS/DM, I open with x and then y and let my minions do z" .. I cant really say what my playstyle is as of yet, my MM is still too low a level to say but I wanted to get some ideas on what to shoot for in a build and the whys, I hate slotting while leveling only to find out that you need to respec at 50 because a few slots are totally useless in whatever power.

Edit: Just thought of this too... can you proc Vengeance off a fallen Minion?

Veng won't work on a henchmen unfortunately.

As for what to build for...

Well you want your pets to be a survivable as possible. So first thing you wanna do is make sure you take maneuvers and shadow fall and slot them for as much defense as possible. You should also get all of the defensive and resist uniques from the Pet Damage IO sets. By combing your extremely good to-hit debuffing with some defense, you can get your pets to be very, very survivable.

You also want to be tough as nails, and you can accomplish that by taking Scorpion Shield and Weave on top of everything else. Those two shields with the 3% Steadfast and some easy slotting can get you to the S/L soft-cap really easy, and not far off from the E soft-cap. Fearsome Stare and Darkest Night will make up the difference for everything else.

Regen is no good for a MM. Your HP is so low that the regen rate would be terrible.

Finally, you want a lot of recharge. As a DM, you are gonna rely on keeping the enemies debuffed all of the time. Additionally, Dark Servent has double the normal recharge for MMs. With enough recharge you can stack Tar Patch and keep Fearsome Stare and Twilight Grasp firing off constantly.

Howling Twilight: This power is more than just a rez. It is an AUTO-HIT AoE stun and big -regen debuff. You wanna use this the same way a Fire Control user would use Flashfire. Taking out every minion in a group is a pretty big deal. Also, there's nothing quite as satisfying as rezzing your whole team with 1 power.

Fearsome Stare: Slot this for to-hit debuff. The debuff in this power is as strong as Darkest Night and you can toss it out with complete safety. Fear Duration isn't very useful because you only need it to last long enough to cast Tar Patch and Darkest Night, which only takes a few seconds.

Twilight Grasp: This is your big heal. It also has a small -regen debuff. You may notice the healing radius is pathetically small. That is true, but in issue 20 it's being increased to a 20ft radius to make it even with other ATs.

Blackhole: Crap. Skip it.

Petrifying Gaze: This power isn't that great, but you can slot it with a set of Basilisk's Gaze, which for 4 slots will give you 7.5% recharge and good defense to E/NE and Ranged.

I don't really have a full DS/DM build to post but I'll just say to keep an eye out for sets that give you extra defense and recharge. Dark Watcher's Despair, Siphon Insight, Basilisk's Gaze, Blood Mandate, Call to Arms, Trap of the Hunter to name a few. Also, don't be afraid to slot cheap purple sets. Absolute Amazement can be slotted into Howling Twilight and Gravitational Anchor could go into a Patron AoE Immob like Web Envelope. With 3 Blood Mandates and all of those Basilisk's Gaze sets you will have really good Ranged, AoE, Energy and Negative Energy defense.


Finally, if power gaming is your thing, Demons are great at it, but Thugs are too. Better, actually. Thugs tier 2 henchmen get a version of Leadership that provides something like 20% defense (when slotted) to all of your henchmen. That makes it A LOT easier to soft-cap them.

Not saying demons aren't good. They are. If you wanna roll Demons then you won't be disappointed. Just throwing out suggestions/ideas for ya.

wow.. tyvm for that post.. very informative and thorough.. Imma try to work something up and post here.. so perma haste is a good thing to shoot for Im guessing then.. defense, holds/fears, and im supposed to skip all my whip attacks? =(

I picked up the whip attacks on my demon summoners. I would suggest you try to fit in lash and crack the whip. Crack the Whip especially has a nice AoE with a -resist component.

This is the build Ive come up with so far... Edit and post ... =)


Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning
Secondary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Summon Demonlings -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg(13), BldM'dt-Acc(15), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(15), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(40), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(9), Dct'dW-Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 2: Lash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 4: Darkest Night -- Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(A), Cloud-Acc/Rchg(7), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Cloud-ToHitDeb(9)
Level 6: Enchant Demon -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Howling Twilight -- Amaze-Stun(A)
Level 12: Summon Demons -- EdctM'r-PetDef(A), Dct'dW-Heal(34), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(34), Dct'dW-Rchg(36), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(37), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 14: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(19), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(19), RctvArm-ResDam(33), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(17), GftotA-Def(17), Aegis-Psi/Status(43)
Level 18: Tar Patch -- P'ngTtl--Rchg%(A), P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow(46), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(46), P'ngTtl-Rng/Slow(50), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx(50), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(50)
Level 20: Hell on Earth -- C'Arms-+Def(Pets)(A), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(21), C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(21), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(23), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def(27), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(27)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(25)
Level 26: Summon Demon Prince -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(29), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), SvgnRt-PetResDam(43)
Level 28: Fearsome Stare -- Cloud-ToHitDeb(A), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(29), Cloud-Acc/Rchg(31), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 30: Crack Whip -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(37), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), Posi-Dam%(40)
Level 32: Abyssal Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(39), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(39), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(39)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(42), GftotA-Def(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Web Envelope -- GravAnch-Hold%(A), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(45), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(45), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(45), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Web Cocoon -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(48), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(48), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(48)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(3)
Level 4: Ninja Run

I just hit lvl 28 w/ my DS/DM toon. I love this character she has beome my favorite character by far. It is true you are constantly doing something. I use hover instead of cj, same def numbers. No immob prot, but I think it has better maneuverability imo. And I love my whip attacks, though I may drop the single target ones later. Otherwise I agree with all that has been said so far. I get right in the middle of a mob for maximum healing potential, so s/l def is a good way to go. And hasten to get dark servant up as much as possible.
One minor note about your build. I plan on putting all four pet aura procs in hell on earth, and leaving it at that, but that's just personal prefference. Hope this helps.

I've gone over your build real quick FreakofFate. You seem to be hitting the numbers on set bonuses, but you're way off on enhancement slotting.

You've got no damage in your Demons or your Prince. I assume you're slotting Red Fortunes to make up for the cost difference since you're not aiming for HP/Regen that you get from slotting more LotG IOs. That's reasonable. In the build I provide below I went with LotG because I like to make the colors match :P

It's 2AM where I am so I don't have the energy to go through and work it out. I'll come back later and try to come up with a solid DS/DM build since I'm actually leveling one myself and need to get around to making a build.


Ok, couldn't go to bed before getting it off my mind! :P

Note: I haven't chosen an Alpha slot. I'm leaning towards musculature. With Core Paragon you'll get more damage in all of your attacks. You can get stacked Tar Patch for lots of -res. The way I see it, skipping the attacks frees up powers and slots for the Fighting + Leadership pool. That makes it easier to get defense, which in turn makes it easier to slot recharge. THAT in turn makes Tar Patch come back a lot faster. This allows you to stack it for a longer period of time, or always have it ready when you need it. Since Tar Patch is about 300x better than the whip attacks, it's a no brainer to me. If I'm considering everything correctly, you should be providing about 20% defense to your henchmen. Your two big to-hit debuff powers will floor any normal enemy's chance to hit you. You're not quite in perma-hasten territory, but that's ok. You have MORE than enough recharge. The spiritual alpha would be a complete waste of time since your pets don't benefit from the recharge component. One shot from Fearsome Stare or Darkest Night will floor your target's chance to hit you. Dark Servant is slotted for enhancement value more than anything. He's got good boosts in everything he does that matters. Enjoy!

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning
Secondary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Summon Demonlings -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(7), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), BldM'dt-Acc(23), BldM'dt-Dmg(42)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Nictus-Heal(A), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(3), Nictus-Acc/Heal(9), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(31)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 4: Darkest Night -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(5), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(5), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(33)
Level 6: Enchant Demon -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 10: Howling Twilight -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(11), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(11), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(36), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(37)
Level 12: Summon Demons -- BldM'dt-Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(13), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(13), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(15), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), BldM'dt-Acc(43)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(17), LkGmblr-Rchg+(17)
Level 18: Hell on Earth -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(34), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(37), EdctM'r-PetDef(37), C'Arms-+Def(Pets)(40)
Level 20: Fearsome Stare -- SipInsght-ToHitDeb(A), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(21), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(21), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 22: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), LkGmblr-Rchg+(25)
Level 26: Summon Demon Prince -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), BldM'dt-Acc(31), BldM'dt-Dmg(43)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Abyssal Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 35: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(A), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(39), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(39), Mrcl-Heal(39), G'Wdw-Acc/Hold/Rchg(40), G'Wdw-Hold/Rng(40)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 44: Web Envelope -- GravAnch-Immob(A), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(45), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(45), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(45), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Petrifying Gaze -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(48), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(48), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(48)
Level 49: Web Cocoon -- BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(50), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(50), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(50)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon Boost
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(43)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(19), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(19)

Reason for the Red Fortunes was that I was over the 5 cap on 2% Recovery. I had read earlier in a different thread to slot the demons with heals, and the Prince with a slow/hold since its a frost pet. Looking at your build now.

I just don't like the fighting pool. I am really flexible on the patron/epic powers. I kind of made this for level-up slotting, but I couldn't resist putting some place holders in for LotG, which DO contain a nice defense component, too. Ember demon heal, ember demon resist shield, shadow fall, twilight grasp (soonTM to be improved upon) frozen armor and hibernate should keep you upright without the fighting pool. I threw in some tasty resist and defense bonuses in manuvers and shadow fall to give an idea of how you can really stoke up the protection.


Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

DSDM: Level 50 Natural Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning
Secondary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Chill Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Summon Demonlings -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(3), Dmg-I(3), Dmg-I(5), BriL'shp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), BriL'shp-Acc/EndRdx(7)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx(A), H'zdH-Heal(7), H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), H'zdH-Heal/Rchg(9), H'zdH-EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(13)
Level 4: Darkest Night -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(13), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(15), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(17), DarkWD-Slow%(17)
Level 6: Enchant Demon -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(15)
Level 8: Lash -- Acc-I(A)
Level 10: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(21)
Level 12: Summon Demons -- Acc-I(A), H'zdH-Heal(19), BriL'shp-Acc/EndRdx(21), Dmg-I(23), Dmg-I(23), H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx(25)
Level 14: Hover -- Flight-I(A)
Level 16: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 18: Hell on Earth -- Dmg-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27), ToHit-I(29)

EDIT FOR STUPIDITY! FOUR SLOTS OF PET/RIP bonuses go in Hell on Earth

Level 20: Fearsome Stare -- Abys-Acc/Rchg(A), Abys-EndRdx/Fear(31), Abys-Acc/EndRdx(48), Abys-Fear/Rng(48), Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg(50)
Level 22: Shadow Fall -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(25), Aegis-Psi/Status(34), ImpArm-ResPsi(36), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(36), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A), Krma-ResKB(29), Ksmt-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 26: Summon Demon Prince -- EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Dmg-I(31), P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow(31), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx(33), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(33), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(33)
Level 28: Crack Whip -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 30: Tactics -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(37), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(40), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(46), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(46)
Level 32: Abyssal Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 35: Petrifying Gaze -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(39), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(39), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(39)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- Cloud-ToHitDeb(A), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(40), Cloud-Acc/Rchg(40), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Cloud-%Dam(42)
Level 41: Flash Freeze -- IComa-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(A), IComa-Acc/Rchg(43), IComa-Sleep/Rng(43), IComa-Acc/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), RedFtn-EndRdx(45), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(45), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 47: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(34)

I love your build Psylenz. I will probably do something similar. Most of my changed are just personal play-style changes or nit picks, ill share a few of the things id change but there is one major issue I have: The slotting of fearsome stare. Slot this thing for to hit debuff not fear. It has a fine duration and it's more an alpha mitigator and a debuff.

Aside from that i think hell on earth is an awesome power and deserves a few extra slots beyond the auras. Also I have ninja run and dont need flight so much. Hybernate is a great place for a cheap purple as well.

think these builds would have fun in a +4*8 BM farm?...im thinking they should stun just as good as a firekin and with even more pets, I dont see how it could be an issue.. if the pets have a bunch of resist/defense..

Oh.. speaking of resist/defense.. do the 4 different aura IO's stack?... the 2 defense and 2 resist

One important thing to remember about slotting Dark Servant is his variety of powers and how IO Sets interact with them.

If you slot an IO Set, then the bonuses will apply to ONLY those of its powers that can accept that kind of Set. Slotting Cloud Senses, for example, is a good choice since it will enhance the attributes of Dark Servant's Fearsome Stare, Darkest Night and Tenebrous Tentacles since they can all accept ToHit Debuff Sets but the Accuracy, Endurance and Proc bonuses of it will have NO effect on his Twilight Grasp or his Petrifying Gaze.

TOs, DOs, SOs, Hamidon-type Enhancements and regular single-stat non-set IO Enhancements will affect any powers that have those attributes.

I'm still at a loss on my Robot/DM MasterMind on how to slot Fluffy. I kind of like the Cloud Senses idea though. Maybe only with 4 slots for the Recharge since I don't really find Defense set bonuses all that useful anymore outside of the ones I get from slotting for other bonuses.