No replies yet, and it may be because everyone is too stunned to post. 
This is a phenomenally expensive build; many, many billions of influence. (The Glad Armor and Shield Wall uniques alone will run you 2 billion each.)
Trying to build up resistance numbers with sets is a mug's game, it takes many expensive IOs for relatively little gain and shuts you out of other, more useful bonuses. In general, trying to plug "holes" like low resistance to certain damage types is much better accomplished with defense rather than resistance bonuses. (That's not possible with typed defense for toxic damage, but toxic is very rare in any case.)
A very important thing to remember is that for typed damage, S/L and E account for something like 75% of all damage. Because of that, by far the best strategy for Electric is to try to build up S/L defense, with E/NE defense as a secondary goal.
Another thing to remember is that because of ED, there is very rarely any point to slotting an armor toggle with more than 4 slots. Look at Weave, for instance, it's slotted to 86% enhancement, but you are only getting a 59% increase out of it due to ED. Since passives like Grounded don't need end reduction and generally have a lower base value, there's rarely a point to putting more than 3 slots in them.
My recommendation is this: forget about PvP IOs and purples for now. Pick up the Steadfast +def and look for S/L defense bonuses instead. If after you get a decent amount of S/L def (32% or 45% is good) you have room for purples and want to slot them for their recharge and other desirable bonuses, go for it.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
I made a build for Electric/Dark with the goal of being able to tank almost anything well. It features almost capped S/L resistance and 32.5% defense (one small inspiration to soft cap) to all positions. Positional defenses protect you from toxic attacs as well as almost every attack in the game. The only exceptions are a handful of psionic powers and Hamidon's attacks.
Like Findulias said, don't worry about your "weak" resistances. Just use defense to cover those up. Smashing, lethal, and energy are the biggest threats and Electric Armor is set up to outshine most other tankers in incarnate content. Every screenshot I have seen shows more Praetorian Clockwork to fight, which do mostly energy damage.
My build uses the Cardiac Alpha to obtain higher resistances, so endurance reduction in powers was not a high priority. I hope it helps you form a better build.
Code:
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This is the current live build for my Elec/Fire tanker, it's not nearly as expensive as the one you posted. The only change I might make is give Power Sink the PShifter set instead of Stamina, and switching Tactics+Veng with BU and Power Surge.
Code:
If you're dead set on spending a lot of inf, here's my pet project Elec/SS/Mu tanker build:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1436;701;1402;HEX;| |78DA7D936B53125118C7CFC2A28918222A78C11B1A82B0C268AF1B2765A646666CB| |45E54C66C7884550466974A7BD567E8457D81AEDFA37B1FA1BE4297F795F4F0FC8F| |B433CCB4C3F23BFB9CE7FCCF7339A770BC1E10E2D125A1052E574DC729EE98B5436| |9FB0A66D92A05AF9AB57BCE4CDEB2A5D3ACDB47BD4288181C8AEB725FD61C696C54| |65A9695BA5E29A7D54B7A36AB620AB521A794BDA271887AED42AD296B5A67136F06| |FD5EB5563BB21E5DE000FF356B9D2B46AE5007F6D4AB3411FC1B38F3D693B15AB11| |DE68582563CD2E3569CB82E9346987288595A2F74D90FE347A45CB2BB234C809CF0| |A435F659C4B8B36427EA19E964FECB3A9A7CCF05718E72DC6E00170C87847EA1AD4| |3D1AF43CD844CF318648D6AB64BDFF911D82EC1064DF93AC0FB29A0FF1A9303FD04| |C2F66446F84063131471DE853CE7D4BEC350C7C24E77E957BFF0EC713D806AE33E2| |F08B93C20082D406BE7ADAA6D92F8C30851F54E1075B6C1A6DE743F8C55FD13F8CE| |46F46EA94F1969684B0AF1EBA8F888E19530F18891346FA21E66893B0DA245C6185| |718B3173001C0255C6FC1143A3A047B04A8C8CB390974C11B56F04DD88A21B9368F| |9149A327591F199C21CE3B3D11263A8844E0A13AA9F13C3EC353BC2981F648C9243| |4C153B869924FC2294C5B4CA621AC5994555E2A8511CC549A08C0994F113C530A7F| |A3997E118C6486841092DDC2424C4855BC06D609791BAC3C81419515AB5A8562DE2| |A02571A6523853691CBB0C8EDD328E5D88D25952F92E219D74989141BE61723094A| |CF19A235F7E05BC64E45E00CF81678C615A9555BDC9427652EFDC2FFAD12336DD96| |1E5EB7A5ABBB4A260D1D49EA9DFBDBEA1BEC5CA6D696BFDD028C775D63D335BEEB1| |A7FF3776EAAD050E8EF6ED3229B7EFC3369DA0D341E57E5A7DF75D39FE2903E614C| |3E6664BB124C7559725D9655B7C5CB422B5D4ED7E876E4541E7F01306FE3BA| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Code:
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Well as I said before I have no real experience with sets (and their market values it seems) so I didn't know how expensive it would be. |
Originally Posted by Finduilas
No replies yet, and it may be because everyone is too stunned to post.
This is a phenomenally expensive build; many, many billions of influence. (The Glad Armor and Shield Wall uniques alone will run you 2 billion each.) Trying to build up resistance numbers with sets is a mug's game, it takes many expensive IOs for relatively little gain and shuts you out of other, more useful bonuses. In general, trying to plug "holes" like low resistance to certain damage types is much better accomplished with defense rather than resistance bonuses. (That's not possible with typed defense for toxic damage, but toxic is very rare in any case.) A very important thing to remember is that for typed damage, S/L and E account for something like 75% of all damage. Because of that, by far the best strategy for Electric is to try to build up S/L defense, with E/NE defense as a secondary goal. Another thing to remember is that because of ED, there is very rarely any point to slotting an armor toggle with more than 4 slots. Look at Weave, for instance, it's slotted to 86% enhancement, but you are only getting a 59% increase out of it due to ED. Since passives like Grounded don't need end reduction and generally have a lower base value, there's rarely a point to putting more than 3 slots in them. My recommendation is this: forget about PvP IOs and purples for now. Pick up the Steadfast +def and look for S/L defense bonuses instead. If after you get a decent amount of S/L def (32% or 45% is good) you have room for purples and want to slot them for their recharge and other desirable bonuses, go for it. |
I am pretty set on playing a character I like...and if I like him enough I won't mind earning and spending a lot of inf on him so I can make him as strong as possible.I know I put 6 slots in a lot of things, but I thought I needed the entire set bonuses...looking at the other builds in here (which look great) and the advice given to me so far I'll have to come to another conclusion. You mentioned getting defenses built up to S/L/E...but since I already have good resistances to that is it really necessary? Wouldn't my inf be better spent building up the defenses to the other damage types or is it the fact that almost all damage has an S/L component with it that makes it a much better option? What happens when I run up against something I am not well protected against?
I was aware that toxic was very rare in game, but in the cases where I do run into this damage type, does that mean as a tank I would be at a great disadvantage in a hami raid or other content with toxic damage? Will I still be a viable tank in that case? Aside from resistance how do I protect myself since there is no typed defense for it?
Quote:
If you have 90% resistance, you still take 10% of the original damage dealt to you. If you add 45% defense on top of that, you now take 1% of the original damage dealt. Defense is a little more complicated than that, but just realize that stacking both forms of mitigation means you take MUCH LESS damage. There are situations where you will NEED both defense and resistance just to stay alive. Sometimes, teams will have bubblers and you won't need defense in your build, but most of the time your team won't. That's why it is important to be self-reliant as a Tanker when you plan your build.|
Originally Posted by Clyp_85
You mentioned getting defenses built up to S/L/E...but since I already have good resistances to that is it really necessary?
|
Quote:
| Wouldn't my inf be better spent building up the defenses to the other damage types or is it the fact that almost all damage has an S/L component with it that makes it a much better option? |
Quote:
| What happens when I run up against something I am not well protected against? |
Quote:
| I was aware that toxic was very rare in game, but in the cases where I do run into this damage type, does that mean as a tank I would be at a great disadvantage in a hami raid or other content with toxic damage? Will I still be a viable tank in that case? |
Quote:
| Aside from resistance how do I protect myself since there is no typed defense for [toxic]? |
Classic wisdom is definitely to augment def and let the res bonuses rot. It's a good plan, it's cheaper than res bonuses and it'll work.
I'm still going to make two suggestions.
1. Don't ignore smashing lethal res. And don't worry about IO sets to get it (they're prohibitive for most players anyway)
At least consider overslotting tough and charged armor such that you maximize the sl res you have. You don't need a lot of endredux, you're ele.
Personally, I've actually built to the SL res hardcap, though it took the alpha slot to get there. With hardcapped sl res and energy res, I find defence is not relevant in a surprising number of cases.
2. We don't know for sure that 45% def is the magic number. The 45% softcap has been very slightly diluted with more enemies with higher caps of late. In the old days there were rularuu, nemesis and DE quartz, but Rularuu can be avoided, Nemesis procs could be managed and DE quartz could be smashed. Then there was LR, but he was a one off corner case, and no-one really expected him to be normal.
Now, however there are tip DE with high base tohit before quartz, and lots of resistance fighters with targeting drones... seers with fortitude or something like it...
I'm not sure exactly what APEX battle maiden uses as a base but it sure as hell didn't feel like 45%.
And so on.
I would not be surprised if, over time, more and more modest defence penetration worked its way into the menu of foes. It worked in WoW in the icecrown citadel when a def imbalance between ATs occured... I'm guessing the same solution will see some of the same logic here.
But that's me, and I could be 100% totally dead wrong on this.
I built for res bonuses because I wanted to try it and because I could. It works imperfectly, but more than well enough 90% of the time, better than def builds about 5% of the time, and that other 5%, well, better hope for team support. If 70% attack base becomes the new 50% for a range of new mobs, then I'd expect to do better with my resistances than most soft capped tanks most of the time... and if it doesn't? hell it's still just fine for me. Maybe I'll go for the barrier incarnate power.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Quote:
The reason I was originally going for mostly resistance is that I thought I would be playing on elec's/ strengths for being a resistance set and covering weaknesses in that respect, but as mentioned before by others...its quite expensive and doesn't offer as much protection as you could get from gaining more defense. I've always been iffy about defense types as I hear they can be godly one moment and then the next you feel pretty squishy. I guess its this fear of inconsistency that I kind of don't trust defense in general as well as to-hit bonuses being your bane.|
Originally Posted by Spiritchaser
Classic wisdom is definitely to augment def and let the res bonuses rot. It's a good plan, it's cheaper than res bonuses and it'll work.
... Personally, I've actually built to the SL res hardcap, though it took the alpha slot to get there. With hardcapped sl res and energy res, I find defence is not relevant in a surprising number of cases. ... I built for res bonuses because I wanted to try it and because I could. It works imperfectly, but more than well enough 90% of the time, better than def builds about 5% of the time, and that other 5%, well, better hope for team support. If 70% attack base becomes the new 50% for a range of new mobs, then I'd expect to do better with my resistances than most soft capped tanks most of the time... and if it doesn't? hell it's still just fine for me. Maybe I'll go for the barrier incarnate power. |
I am curious about a couple of things in your post and would like to ask a few questions if I may. Exactly why do you say defense is not relevant in a number of cases? Are there cases where more defense may seem absolutely necessary? Was it very expensive to build for resistance and do you have any notable defense in your build? Also, what is that 5% of content where you need a team? (I am sure that, that 5% includes TFs, AVs, and GMs, but is there more that I am not aware of?)
Quote:
" res is quite expensive, and it doesn't offer as much protection as def."|
Originally Posted by Clyp_85
The reason I was originally going for mostly resistance is that I thought I would be playing on elec's/ strengths for being a resistance set and covering weaknesses in that respect, but as mentioned before by others...its quite expensive and doesn't offer as much protection as you could get from gaining more defense. I've always been iffy about defense types as I hear they can be godly one moment and then the next you feel pretty squishy. I guess its this fear of inconsistency that I kind of don't trust defense in general as well as to-hit bonuses being your bane.
I am curious about a couple of things in your post and would like to ask a few questions if I may. Exactly why do you say defense is not relevant in a number of cases? Are there cases where more defense may seem absolutely necessary? Was it very expensive to build for resistance and do you have any notable defense in your build? Also, what is that 5% of content where you need a team? (I am sure that, that 5% includes TFs, AVs, and GMs, but is there more that I am not aware of?) |
In general I'd have to agree, in fact it's so self evident I'd look ridiculous not to agree.
Thing is, Res can offer "enough" protection almost all of the time, and then offer a lot more than def on those occasions where your foes penetrate defence badly. If I can wade in to hell with the res I have, well, I probably don't really NEED softcapped def on top of that.
An added benefit is that when I do get overwhelmed, and yes it definitely happens, and it'll happen more than with a def build, I tend to get into trouble "gracefully" I don't have massive big hits putting me in harms way of one more lucky shot being the end, instead I have a slow downward trend in my health bar that I can react to with energise, or with insps, or buff/debuffer/controller could react to what's going on or whatever. Now, this said, a def built electric will have a meaningfull buffer like this as well, base electric resistances are pretty good.
I don't think there's an inexpensive way to build for res, and when you are, there are really only a few types that are accessible in quantity for ANY price. The best progress can be made in psi, which can be cheep(ish), and fire and cold which won't be. Negative isn't too bad with the 4 piece scirocco's bonus.
S/L has to come from tough or overslotting your shields, from the cardiac bonus, or from spending truly obscene volumes of infamy.
The problematic 5% isnt necessarily TFs. Most GMs can't really hurt me, though in fairness, I can't hurt them either. Most exemped TFs are trivial for electric. LGTF is also a joke, though it will be for most tanks.
The problem cases are generally where massive mez occurs, where massive debuffs occur, or where there's massive toxic damage. These are not exactly common, but they can happen.
Massive negative damage is a more common occurance, since it happens in the ITF near every crystal. If we're fighting at higher levels then one inspiration is usually needed to make me comfortable there, and if I'm chewing a purple, I need to make sure I've cleared the debuffs from any sword swingers before I jump in. It's a weakness I wish I didn't have but... oh well.
I don't currently have significant def in my build. About a month ago I got all the bits to add about 22.5% def without losing res, but I've held off untill I got a bit more of a clue about what's coming in I 20 and if some different build might make sense. I've got a +3 def IO for him, and there's no way I'm committing one of those unless I'm really sure it'll be the right thing for him.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Here's Crio's current brick build, it's what I had with the T2 alpha, so it isn't optimal
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Code:
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Here's what I'll most likely do with him:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Code:
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For the record, here's an expensive DEF build that I may do if I20 looks like I'll need it and I'm forced to be a turncoat to my res build:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Code:
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EDIT: and no, power sink is not slotted. Even with the first of these builds, almost anything I could really drain, I can already survive. Exceptions? maybe some bane spider intensive spawns, but I can kill those awefully fast...
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. After taking it all into consideration I changed my build. It is still expensive, but it looks a lot better to me than before and I am willing to spend the inf once I get to the point of IO'ing him out.
Hello everyone. I have a question about building an Elec/Fire tank. I am an altaholic and haven't gotten any of my characters to 50 the entire time I've been playing CoH/CoV. As such I have no experience outside of Mids' with IO sets. I would like to get a tanker to 50...my closest is WP/elec stuck at 41, but I looked at the Elec primary and it peaked my interest. I'm a little confused about what to focus on when it comes to IO sets. When kind of throwing this together in Mids' I was thinking I should use the sets to shore up the primary's weaknesses, but I wasn't sure if I should just work on the lower resistances (toxic, fire, cold, and neg) and depend on my heal and it's regen to help me survive or to shore up his defenses instead. When I looked at the numbers and the slotting I couldn't help but think I was short changing myself. I would like to make him very survivable, but not gimping my attacks too much. I assume though since /Fire is quite offensive I can afford not slotting my attacks too much? I'll toss this "build" up so maybe you can see my method of thinking, but I took all the primary and all but one attack from the secondary (they all seemed so good). I also did not take any ancillary pool power and instead used pool powers to help recharge and defense. Since I'm writing anyway I'd like to add one more question about game-play when it comes to crash-able tier 9's (more specifically Elec's/ tier 9). How often and exactly when is it used? Also, how do you manage to overcome the crash if there are still enemies standing?
Here is the build:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor
- (A) Gladiator's Armor - Recharge/Resist
- (3) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance
- (3) Gladiator's Armor - End/Resist
- (45) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance/Rech/End
Level 1: Scorch- (A) Empty
Level 2: Lightning Field- (A) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff
- (5) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (5) Fury of the Gladiator - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 4: Conductive Shield- (A) Gladiator's Armor - Recharge/Resist
- (7) Gladiator's Armor - End/Resist
- (7) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
- (9) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance/Rech/End
- (9) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance
- (11) Gladiator's Armor - Recharge/Endurance
Level 6: Static Shield- (A) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (29) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance
- (31) Impervium Armor - Resistance
Level 8: Grounded- (A) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance
- (11) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
- (13) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge
- (13) Aegis - Endurance/Recharge
- (15) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (15) Aegis - Resistance
Level 10: Fire Sword- (A) Gladiator's Strike - Accuracy/Damage
- (34) Gladiator's Strike - Damage/Recharge
Level 12: Combustion- (A) Armageddon - Damage
- (34) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (34) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
- (36) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
- (36) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
- (36) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
Level 14: Taunt- (A) Empty
Level 16: Energize- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (17) Recharge Reduction IO
- (17) Recharge Reduction IO
- (19) Healing IO
Level 18: Lightning Reflexes- (A) Run Speed IO
Level 20: Breath of Fire- (A) Ragnarok - Damage
- (37) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
- (37) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (37) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
- (40) Ragnarok - Chance for Knockdown
- (43) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
Level 22: Combat Jumping- (A) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
- (23) Shield Wall - Defense/Recharge
- (23) Shield Wall - Endurance/Recharge
- (25) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (25) Shield Wall - Defense
- (27) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +3% Res (All)
Level 24: Super Jump- (A) Empty
Level 26: Power Sink- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (27) Recharge Reduction IO
- (29) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle- (A) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Damage
- (31) Fury of the Gladiator - Damage/Recharge
- (33) Fury of the Gladiator - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (33) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (33) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Damage/End/Rech
Level 30: Boxing- (A) Empty
Level 32: Power Surge- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 35: Incinerate- (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (45) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
- (45) Hecatomb - Damage
- (46) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (46) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
- (46) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
Level 38: Tough- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (39) Reactive Armor - Endurance/Recharge
- (39) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (39) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
- (40) Reactive Armor - Endurance
- (40) Reactive Armor - Resistance
Level 41: Weave- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Endurance/Recharge
- (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
Level 44: Greater Fire Sword- (A) Empty
Level 47: Maneuvers- (A) Red Fortune - Defense
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Red Fortune - Endurance
Level 49: Hasten- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
------------Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
Level 1: GauntletLevel 1: Sprint
- (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest- (A) Empty
Level 4: Ninja RunLevel 2: Swift
- (A) Empty
Level 2: Health- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (21) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (31) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
Level 2: Hurdle- (A) Empty
Level 2: Stamina