Poison Trap is basically useless, right?
By
Berzerker_NA,
Posted on: 2011-03-04 10:06 in Masterminds
Quote:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!|
Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
Ok, so I've been looking into my proc options. Apparently it only accepts sleep and end Mod sets.
So, suppose I put Energy Manipulator: 10% Chance to Disorient on it. Do you think that would proc once/second (like the end mod effect does), once per 10 seconds (like most recurring powers), or never? If I were doing Ninjas/Poison I might also consider trying Fortunate Hypnosis: Chance to Placate, though it would only fire once when the sleep effect fires. It probably wouldn't benefit me very much on mercs, though, unless it lasts a long time. |
NO NO NO
Stay away from Poison Trap! It isn't worth the time to proc! Take flurry, take grant inviz, take recall friend. Poison Trap is stupid broken.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
This thread having piqued my curiosity, I did a little testing with this horrid power... 
When the trap goes off, it does a hit roll and places a sleep effect on any foe hit by it... It was confusing at first because the sleep animation is the same as the hold animation from char/choking cloud, but don't be mistaken, it is definitely a sleep.
In addition to the sleep effect, the lingering cloud does a pulsing hold/end drain, so enemies that enter after the initial sleep do have a chance of being held albeit a low chance, as has been stated already.
Now, for procs...
Energy Manipulator: Chance for Stun: It looks like this proc can go off on the initial burst as well as the pulsing hold/end drain ticks. I couldn't figure out how to get it to show up in the chat log, so I can't say exactly how it works, but it definitely didn't seem useful. In about 10 minutes of running around in large groups and placing it, I only saw it proc a handful of times. Also, there was no noticeable effect on the enemies that I saw it work on. Not even the light colored rings that usually show up around someones head when they are stunned.
Fortunata Hypnosis: Chance for Placate: This proc is totally useless as I suspected. It did proc on the mobs pretty frequently, but it definitely didn't cause them to stop attacking me. I guess they were placated to the poison trap.
Call of the Sandman: Chance to Heal: Never saw this one go off. Not when I placed the proc nor was there a heal on the poison trap... Not a big deal since the IO is generally pretty useless anyhow.
Conclusion: Don't take the power... It IS as awful as everyone says it is. 
Quote:
I'm still tempted to try taking it, then using it on some weak mobs and running a power analyzer on them just to be sure. It would so awesome if it worked.|
Originally Posted by Wyatt_Earp
Now, for procs... Energy Manipulator: Chance for Stun: It looks like this proc can go off on the initial burst as well as the pulsing hold/end drain ticks. I couldn't figure out how to get it to show up in the chat log, so I can't say exactly how it works, but it definitely didn't seem useful. In about 10 minutes of running around in large groups and placing it, I only saw it proc a handful of times. Also, there was no noticeable effect on the enemies that I saw it work on. Not even the light colored rings that usually show up around someones head when they are stunned. |
I'm still 2 levels away. Anyone want to help talk me down from the ledge, ... before I jump?
Quote:
As I reread what I wrote about that proc, I realize I didn't quite explain what was happening. The proc does work, and it does stun them. There is just no graphical effect when it happens. However, IMO, it still isn't worth it because it doesn't seem to happen very often... And 2 out of the 6 or 7 times that it did proc, it happened while the enemy was also held, so he would only stumble around after the hold wore off.|
Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
I'm still tempted to try taking it, then using it on some weak mobs and running a power analyzer on them just to be sure. It would so awesome if it worked.
I'm still 2 levels away. Anyone want to help talk me down from the ledge, ... before I jump? |
And go ahead and give it a try... Just be prepared to use a respec to drop it.
Quote:
The trap power in the poison set is sleep gas, not poison like the TRAPS set. Any one hit will be awakened and attack again. It is a worthless power and considered by some poison users as the "mandatory SKIP power". Don't take it.
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Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
I'm playing a Mercs/Poison at level 29 now, and I just want to plan ahead a bit. It seems I have one power available that I can use either for Poison Trap, Paralytic Poison, M30 Grenade (Already have burst, but not slug), or Teleport Ally. I probably won't do Paralytic poison, since it has a really short duration of only 6.4 seconds, and a long recharge of 16 seconds so it can't be stacked. (By comparison, a controller's hold lasts 15 seconds and recharges in 8)
Reading through what Poison Trap does, its only reliable effect seems to be a sleep effect. I'm thinking if I use that on a bunch of enemies, my commando or medic is just going to hit them with a big AOE and immediately wake them up anyway. So.... I guess that just leaves M30 Grenade and Teleport Ally as possibilities. Any thoughts? |
Alright. I'm there at level 35. I get to think about it for a few hours, as I take care of some business in town. Heheh. You never know with situational powers. Serum turned out to be really useful on this build. Maybe poison trap has some hope too?
Alright, tried it out on a guard, with a power analyzer. In the course of ten uses, he only got stunned once (on the first use, interestingly enough). He got held 3 times.
Another interesting discovery came out of the experiment: Weaken doesn't stack with itself.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Seldom
Can't speak for many others, but I'd far prefer a debuff/soft control tool to help reduce the danger of a large group in some capacity than AoE damage in a support set. Something that would reliably slow down how much goo I'd have to be slinging at pets/allies to patch them up. Because let's face it, an AoE damage attack (slow damage) would be tough on a character which lacks much self preservation.
But that's just me. |
I agree...I have never touched the Poison Trap power from the Poison secondary set.....don't want to either
(until it gets buffed that is!)
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Quote:
Also, envenom does not stack on itself, EXCEPT for the regen debuff.
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Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
Alright, tried it out on a guard, with a power analyzer. In the course of ten uses, he only got stunned once (on the first use, interestingly enough). He got held 3 times.
Another interesting discovery came out of the experiment: Weaken doesn't stack with itself. |
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
So now I did an updated, very lengthy experiment. (I have no idea why I felt like doing this, except I guess my character is supposed to be a scientist.) I found an artillery cannon in Port Oaks, and exposed it to the poison trap 100 times. The pet combat log showed whenever the once per second checks missed, but not when they hit (It only showed one hit per use. )
Sleep: Basically an auto hit. If the first try fails, but the second try succeeds, they still get slept. The only exception is that sometimes auto-hit would force a hit, and the gun didn't sleep that time. (Happened 4 times during the test)
Stun Proc : Hit 26 times total. Twice it managed to double stack itself. It's a magnitude 2 Stun. Also there was no correlation between end drains happening and Stuns happening.
Hold: Hit 51 times total. 5 times it hit twice in the same application (I didn't keep track of how often they double stacked, but they did sometimes). Once it hit three times in the same application.
End Drain: Hit 33 times total. 3 times it hit twice in the same application.
28 times none of the three effects were triggered (except sleep, of course).
3 times all three happened.
Stun + Hold was 8 times (including the 3 where all three happened)
Hold + End was 11 times (including the 3 where all three happened)
Stun + End was 9 times (including the 3 where all three happened)
So...um... that's pretty exhaustive.
The log showed a total of 176 misses, with the odds of hitting always being 95%, so that indicates that about 35 toHit checks were being made per use.
Another development: if you're patient you can set multiple traps. It has a 1 minute recharge (unenhanced), and apparently the trap lasts 4 minutes, 20 seconds, so I imagine you could set a lot of them in that time.
I would only think of it at say..... the end of an ITF, but still.
Quote:
Does Poison Trap in Poison have interrupt? I remember it used to have at 4s?
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Originally Posted by Wyatt_Earp
This thread having piqued my curiosity, I did a little testing with this horrid power...
When the trap goes off, it does a hit roll and places a sleep effect on any foe hit by it... It was confusing at first because the sleep animation is the same as the hold animation from char/choking cloud, but don't be mistaken, it is definitely a sleep. In addition to the sleep effect, the lingering cloud does a pulsing hold/end drain, so enemies that enter after the initial sleep do have a chance of being held albeit a low chance, as has been stated already. Now, for procs... Energy Manipulator: Chance for Stun: It looks like this proc can go off on the initial burst as well as the pulsing hold/end drain ticks. I couldn't figure out how to get it to show up in the chat log, so I can't say exactly how it works, but it definitely didn't seem useful. In about 10 minutes of running around in large groups and placing it, I only saw it proc a handful of times. Also, there was no noticeable effect on the enemies that I saw it work on. Not even the light colored rings that usually show up around someones head when they are stunned. Fortunata Hypnosis: Chance for Placate: This proc is totally useless as I suspected. It did proc on the mobs pretty frequently, but it definitely didn't cause them to stop attacking me. I guess they were placated to the poison trap. Call of the Sandman: Chance to Heal: Never saw this one go off. Not when I placed the proc nor was there a heal on the poison trap... Not a big deal since the IO is generally pretty useless anyhow. Conclusion: Don't take the power... It IS as awful as everyone says it is. |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Yes, it's 4s cast time that is interruptible.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Does Poison Trap in Poison have interrupt? I remember it used to have at 4s?
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Basically, make it a shorter range/interuptable static field that has to be triggered but caries a stronger -recovery. (As static field relies on the rest of its set to sap, poison trap's sapping has no stackability to offer.) Cottage rule is safe, and the limited debuffs are less of an issue as sleeping/sapped foes aren't a trouble anywise. In balance, attacking right away would wake/draw out foes, so it wouldn't be an "I win, you're helpless!" power.