Improvements for my BS/SD scrapper?
Sure. First find an(/your) attack chain. I'd go for the HS->Parry->Hack->Dis->Parry. Get each of those to ED-cap damage, then arrange enough recharge slotting in each power and global recharge to get to having that attack chain with no gaps. Note that equal recharge between powers isn't required -- in particular HS is probably going to be the limiting factor so stuff as much recharge in there as you can.
If you have enough recharge, simplify it down to HS->Parry->Hack->Dis. If you have absurd amounts you can get down to HS->Hack->Dis. I don't think you can do that solo without compromising on being at softcap defenses (which, incidentally, you aren't).
Speaking of softcap, get there then worry about damage. Dead = 0 DPS. We're most likely talking 6-slot sets of obliteration, mako's bite, and 5-slots of aegis in tough. That should get you most of the way to the magic 45% defense "softcap". You have the steadfast unique -- so that's a good sign you're thinking about softcap.
Also, you're in general overslotting end redux on shields (and long-rech powers like build up) and underslotting it on attacks. In general attacks consume more EPS than your shields do.
Speaking of, your slotting of build up is terrible for your stated goal. Sure, you get great +tohit on it. But you spend 4 slots and get no more +damage out of it than you would vs 2 generic recharge IOs.
Grant cover isn't worth slotting up. Yes it helps your team. That's nice. Slot a +def in there or maybe the LoTG6 recharge in there. Leave it slotless. You'll need the slots elsewhere to get near def cap.
Finally, at the end here, if you somehow have slots left over you can slot in other damage proc effects.
id steal a couple slots and 4 slot char with basilisk. nice bonuses
I missed you skipped tough and more importantly weave. Find 3 power picks, you'll be needing those. Assault can go. So can the fire epic pool most likely.
How attached are you to the Fire epic pool? If it's for theme that's one thing, but mechanically it's pretty useless (at least, it is the way you have it set up; with redraw, Fireball is the only power in the set that's worth using and you didn't take it). You could trade it for Body Mastery to mitigate those endurance problems. Also, what kind of budget are you looking at for this character?
I don't know the math offhand, but you might end up doing more DPS by trading some of those damage set bonuses for recharge for a good attack chain. The build you have probably has to use Parry a lot, and Parry is a much weaker attack than Hack, Disembowel, or Headsplitter. I also can't stand playing melee without having strong defenses, which for /shield means the softcap. After all, death is a pretty big hit to your DPS. Without defenses you have to rely heavily on the tank to keep you alive; with them, you're able to fend for yourself and become an independent killing machine.
I'm pretty sure the weapon redraw thing got debunked a while back. The asthetics of it are another matter however, and you're free to object to them if you want. As a shieldie you're dealing with it every 60 seconds anyway, because of your non-toggle status protection.
Dear devs: please make all status protections grant the toggle and the clickie and not stack with themselves and let players pick which they want running. You can even make the toggle more expensive EPS.
I'm pretty sure the weapon redraw thing got debunked a while back. The asthetics of it are another matter however, and you're free to object to them if you want.
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Guess I'll have to get used to it on my Claws/Fire Scrapper whenever I get around to getting her to whatever level a Scrapper gets Burn at...
Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...

Guess I'll have to get used to it on my Claws/Fire Scrapper whenever I get around to getting her to whatever level a Scrapper gets Burn at...
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Keeping one ALIVE, on the other hand, is not so simple....
Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...

Sure. First find an(/your) attack chain. I'd go for the HS->Parry->Hack->Dis->Parry. Get each of those to ED-cap damage, then arrange enough recharge slotting in each power and global recharge to get to having that attack chain with no gaps. Note that equal recharge between powers isn't required -- in particular HS is probably going to be the limiting factor so stuff as much recharge in there as you can.
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Speaking of softcap, get there then worry about damage. Dead = 0 DPS.
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Also, you're in general overslotting end redux on shields (and long-rech powers like build up) and underslotting it on attacks. In general attacks consume more EPS than your shields do.
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I will check whether I can find a different combination of IOs of the same sets in my attacks that cost less endurance, though. This might be a way to accomplish my goal. (When I originally picked those, the alpha slot hadn't been announced yet.)
Speaking of, your slotting of build up is terrible for your stated goal. Sure, you get great +tohit on it. But you spend 4 slots and get no more +damage out of it than you would vs 2 generic recharge IOs.
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Grant cover isn't worth slotting up. Yes it helps your team. That's nice. Slot a +def in there or maybe the LoTG6 recharge in there. Leave it slotless. You'll need the slots elsewhere to get near def cap.
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I missed you skipped tough and more importantly weave. Find 3 power picks, you'll be needing those. Assault can go. So can the fire epic pool most likely.
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I do have a softcapped (MA/SR) scrapper that can solo high-level missions with ease. That's not what this character is for. Thanks for your recommendations, but right now I'm happy with the survivability of this character. I'm looking for a way to change the cardiac alpha (even the common cardiac solves all endurance problems the character had) with the muscular alpha without losing too much damage.
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Correct. The "redraw" animation has been moved inside the animation time window of powers and so do not effect damage output at all. This being said, I hate it with a passion and do my best to avoid any situation where I have to redraw a weapon as even though I know it has no effect on my DPS, it still feels like I'm slowing down my attack rate.
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That's how it used to be YEARS ago, and yes, the redraw myth was debunked years ago. Then, also years ago, the devs buffed the weapon sets by removing the redraw animation time from the attacks. That was much better aesthetically, with the attacks flowing into each other without standing there for the redraw pause without redraw animation. And of course it buffed DPS significantly. It also means that NOW, in the modern game, there IS a redraw penalty. Your impression is correct. Redraw is slowing down your attack rate. Reraw is pretty fast for Claws though, as I recall, so it's not TOO bad.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
First, I can't open builds through links right now due to some bug, so I apologize if I'm off base here.
Different attacks do different amounts of damage per second. The difference can be drastic (e.g., Head Splitter does 70% higher DPS than Slash). That means that for maximum DPS, you want to keep firing your top DPS attacks, over and over. You don't want to even use the lesser attacks. And to fire those top DPS attacks over and over, you need recharge, and often lots of it. Damage set bonuses and Musculature are an obvious route to more damage, but often the wrong route. Recharge is typically more important.
So chances are that there are people out there doing significantly more damage than this build, and given your comments about the soft cap and Tough and Weave, with significantly better survivability.
Being able to complete Apex etc. without dying doesn't mean your build is any good. In this case, it sounds like it means you're on a good team and you know how to work together. That typically DOES trump individual build skill, so grats. A good team with single origin enhancements will probably walk all over a bad team with 10 billion influence uber builds. But it doesn't mean that the SO builds are better.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
How attached are you to the Fire epic pool? If it's for theme that's one thing, but mechanically it's pretty useless (at least, it is the way you have it set up; with redraw, Fireball is the only power in the set that's worth using and you didn't take it). You could trade it for Body Mastery to mitigate those endurance problems.
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I'd prefer not to lose that level 5 damage bonus, though. (It's one of the largest available.)
Also, what kind of budget are you looking at for this character?
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I don't know the math offhand, but you might end up doing more DPS by trading some of those damage set bonuses for recharge for a good attack chain.
The build you have probably has to use Parry a lot, and Parry is a much weaker attack than Hack, Disembowel, or Headsplitter. |
You've given me something to think about. Thanks!
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One of my attacks is always ready to fire even if Hasten is not running, so I don't think I need much more recharge. Sorry if I fail to understand, but how is a shorter attack chain helping my endurance issues?
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Now tell me: is it better to use all the powers you have listed, or a subset of them like I listed below?
Again, this is a team character. I don't intend to solo high-level enemies, so I don't need to reach the def cap by myself. The other players are helping out here. (Several of us use the Leadership pool, so we have several copies of Maneuvers around, and usually we also get some force fields, ice shields, or other help as well. We did the Imperius (at +3), Lady Grey (at +2), and Apex task forces this weekend, and I wasn't defeated even once.) |
The slotting is supposed to accumulate the damage set bonuses. The set bonuses weren't spelled out in my original post, but I have one level 7, five level 5, five level 4, five level 3, and three level 2 damage bonuses in there. That's 44,5% extra damage all the time just from the set bonuses. |
As a point: for Hack, you've enhanced base damage to only 85% boosted, not 96-97% in the yellow/red zone where it should be. There's ~6% damage you're missing out on. Some of your other attacks do have better damage enhancement. Others not so much.
Looking at your build, I can only guess that your attack chain is some cycle of Parry->HS->Whirling->Dis->Parry->Hack->Fire Blast*? Maybe with another parry in there. The big three there (HS, Dis, Hack) are pure gold, ~80 damage per second of animation (unenhanced). Fire blast is probably running ~60 dpsa. Parry is ~40 dpsa. Whirling is a miserable 38 dpsa against a single target. Average all that out and you're going to get a measly 64 dpsa, especially with Werner's note they unbaked in the redraw animations, so fire blast is causing redraw too.
Edit: Note: I computed the above without hasten. Given how rare it'll be up with only a single recharge IO and not substantial recharge in your build, I stand by the above chain. With hasten you could drop some chaff for two minutes... then have it back for the next three.
Let's say you boost your recharge (global and slotted in powers) some and instead run Parry->HS->Parry->Hack->Dis, which isn't too hard to get to -- you're pretty much there with HS and Parry fully enhanced for recharge (full set of oblit will do it) and while hasten is up (it has downtime in your build, but we'll get to that). Now you're at 71 dpsa. That's 10% better than the previous chain -- and multiplicative with the earlier-missing 6% and with all other damage bonuses (assaults and build-up included).
So that's now doing on-par with how good all the +dmg bonuses you're chasing so far get you. And even slotting out like I'm talking above you'll still pick up a few +dmg bonuses sitting around elsewhere.
Of course I did assume perma-hasten. You won't get there on a BS/SD without sacrificing other things, but then again all I'm using hasten here for is a big recharge boost. Get it through the incarnate slot, get it through set bonuses, or just slot up recharge in the power. HS needs more than you can slot it in, but Parry doesn't.
You could even *gasp* drop hasten. Crazy-talk, I know. Might still want it for shield charge though! Speaking of shield charge, that little recharge in your best AoE attack makes sad pandas sadder. A full set of obliteration is called for. At the worst, a 5-set minus the proc.
*: warning: mids values for fire blast on DPAnimS are wrong -- I think doubled what they should be due to the scrapper critical chance.
Also if you have melee defense at 45% you can drop Parry for Slash and it's higher damage and defense debuff. It only works, however, if your melee is softcapped. Otherwise forget it, keep Parry.
Also if you have melee defense at 45% you can drop Parry for Slash and it's higher damage and defense debuff. It only works, however, if your melee is softcapped. Otherwise forget it, keep Parry.
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Note: didn't do the math to see if I could get slash recharging fast enough to be equal to parry. You might be able to, but you might compromise set bonuses to do it.
Well, not that much. It fits thematically (he's Day Knight, after all), matches Hasten and Super Speed, and allowed me to get a level 3 and a level 5 damage bonus for just two slots each. I use Melt Armor in larger groups of enemies, and sometimes I throw a Fire Blast after a single running enemy to quickly finish him of without running after him, but I could do without them.
I'd prefer not to lose that level 5 damage bonus, though. (It's one of the largest available.) |
With Blaze Mastery, though, you really should take Fireball, probably replacing Melt Armor. I say this because Melt Armor is only a 9.75% debuff, so using it on a group of baddies basically deals 10% of their health because they then require that much less damage to kill. On minions, that's less than 50 damage. Even on a boss, it's ~250. That doesn't increase from enhancements or buffs, either. By comparison, with slotting, Musculature Core Paragon, set bonuses, and Against All Odds, not to mention any team buffs, Fireball does well upwards of 200 damage on every target, has a larger radius, costs less, and recharges six times faster! You'd lose a 2% damage set bonus, but your overall ability to deal damage will definitely increase.
If you're interested in boosting your single-target damage (for targets like Archvillains), consider putting an Achilles' Heel -res proc in one of your single-target attacks. It boosts your entire team's damage by 20% for 10 seconds against that target, which can equate to hundreds of damage if several people are attacking that target for the full duration. However, the proc does NOT stack if multiple people use it, so if you regularly group with someone else who uses it then it's unnecessary for you to as well.
Not strictly true: Parry recharges a lot faster than slash. So by swapping those you may end up breaking your attack chain. When you're only talking a 7.5 dpsa gain from the switch and doing something around 71 dpsa base, if it introduces (slightly less than) a tenth of a second gap you've gained no ground (actually, lost ground: slash costs more end and doesn't grant you defense -- even if in 99% of the cases the def would be wasted).
Note: didn't do the math to see if I could get slash recharging fast enough to be equal to parry. You might be able to, but you might compromise set bonuses to do it. |
Keep in mind, however, that Slash does Defense Debuff. Stacked with the other Defense Debuffs in the set it makes it much easier to hit targets.
In the end, however, it comes down to the player. If the player can reach 45/45/45 all around they don't need Parry and never need fear the RNG screwing them over or need to land blows to softcap melee.
On the other hand, Parry is accurate and by level 50 you probably have it at or near Acc cap, plus Accuracy bonuses from sets. If you only need to get melee to 30% as opposed to 45% that means you can use sets with other useful bonuses as opposed to jamming in more melee defense.
I favor the 'softcap without Parry' approach, but can't fault the 'softcap with parry' approach either. Each has a benefit and a downfall.
But hey, long as you have fun, right?
Checked it in Mids. If both are 6 slotted with Crushing Impact then the DPS is damn near identical, at least as far as the Damage/Sec Power Graph goes. Slash hits harder, but Parry still recharges faster.
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But there are some peculiarities of the game engine that mean there's an irreducible delay between attacks, which we refer to as ArcanaTime. You want to account for those delays, adding them to the cast time of each attack to properly represent how much time that attack will actually take when used in a tight attack chain.
To do all that in Mids', in options, configuration, under effects & maths, select "Use AracanaTime for Animation Times". Once you've done that, you then look at Damage / Anim in the power stats graph. Slash is 43.45 DPS and Parry is 36.49 DPS. Close, but not as close as the damage / sec graph seems to indicate.
Looking on the Damage / Anim graph, you'll also see that your three big hitters are Head Splitter, Disembowel and Hack. Everything else is a long ways back from those. So if you can afford to go without Parry, you can do a lot more damage using just those three attacks. Specifically, the Head Splitter -> Hack -> Disembowel -> Hack chain, and with an Achilles' Heel in Hack, and ideally a Fury of the Gladiator in Head Splitter. That takes a lot of recharge, though.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
The damage / sec power graph, strangely enough, is exactly the wrong thing to look at if you want to understand how much DPS an attack contributes. I believe that stat includes the recharge time. You don't want to do that, because most most mid to high level builds, and probably many low level builds are not cycle time limited, but rather animation time limited.
But there are some peculiarities of the game engine that mean there's an irreducible delay between attacks, which we refer to as ArcanaTime. You want to account for those delays, adding them to the cast time of each attack to properly represent how much time that attack will actually take when used in a tight attack chain. To do all that in Mids', in options, configuration, under effects & maths, select "Use AracanaTime for Animation Times". Once you've done that, you then look at Damage / Anim in the power stats graph. Slash is 43.45 DPS and Parry is 36.49 DPS. Close, but not as close as the damage / sec graph seems to indicate. Looking on the Damage / Anim graph, you'll also see that your three big hitters are Head Splitter, Disembowel and Hack. Everything else is a long ways back from those. So if you can afford to go without Parry, you can do a lot more damage using just those three attacks. Specifically, the Head Splitter -> Hack -> Disembowel -> Hack chain, and with an Achilles' Heel in Hack, and ideally a Fury of the Gladiator in Head Splitter. That takes a lot of recharge, though. |
Slash is still the 4th strongest attack, and can be used in a chain for lower recharge build, I would think. Or at least take Parry's place in a chain, more or less.
Still, in the end it doesn't change that Parry or no Parry is based on the player and his/her toon.
Hi everybody,
the following is a character of mine which I mainly use for casual team play (regular missions and the higher-level task forces, usually no higher than +1 or +2).
I wanted to maximize damage, so I tried to put as many "plus damage" set bonuses in the character as I could. I haven't yet incarnated him, but I was hoping for an even higher damage output by choosing the muscular alpha.
Unfortunately, the character uses quite a lot of endurance and can't fight continuously for an extended amount of time but needs some time to rest in between mobs. That's why I considered to go for the cardiac alpha instead, but since I really wanted the character to dish out impressive amounts damage I was hoping that you could help me with suggestions on how to improve the build without losing too much damage bonuses and still being able to choose the muscular alpha.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Day Knight: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Broad Sword
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hack
- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (15) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (17) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (21) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 1: Deflection- (A) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
- (11) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance
- (11) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (13) Impervium Armor - Resistance
- (13) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (15) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance
Level 2: Battle Agility- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (42) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (42) Red Fortune - Defense
- (43) Red Fortune - Endurance
Level 4: True Grit- (A) Miracle - Heal
- (5) Miracle - Heal/Recharge
- (7) Miracle - Heal/Endurance
- (7) Impervium Armor - Resistance
- (9) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Recharge
- (9) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance
Level 6: Build Up- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (23) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (23) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (25) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (25) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
Level 8: Parry- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (40) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (40) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (40) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 10: Combat Jumping- (A) Kismet - Accuracy +6%
Level 12: Hasten- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 14: Super Speed- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
Level 16: Active Defense- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (17) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 18: Whirling Sword- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (19) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (19) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (21) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
Level 20: Maneuvers- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense
- (50) Red Fortune - Endurance
Level 22: Against All Odds- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
Level 24: Phalanx Fighting- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (43) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (43) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Red Fortune - Defense
Level 26: Disembowel- (A) Explosive Strike - Damage/Knockback
- (27) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (27) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
- (29) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
- (29) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
- (31) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 28: Grant Cover- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (46) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Red Fortune - Defense
- (48) Red Fortune - Endurance
Level 30: Tactics- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (31) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (31) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (34) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (34) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (37) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
Level 32: Head Splitter- (A) Explosive Strike - Damage/Knockback
- (33) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (33) Obliteration - Damage
- (33) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (34) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 35: Shield Charge- (A) Explosive Strike - Damage/Knockback
- (36) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (36) Obliteration - Damage
- (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 38: One with the Shield- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
Level 41: Char- (A) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold
- (42) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
Level 44: Fire Blast- (A) Apocalypse - Damage
- (45) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (45) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
- (45) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
Level 47: Melt Armor- (A) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff/Recharge
- (50) Undermined Defenses - Recharge
- (50) Accuracy IO
Level 49: Assault- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
------------Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Critical HitLevel 1: Sprint
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
Level 2: Rest- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 4: Ninja RunLevel 2: Swift
- (A) Run Speed IO
Level 2: Health- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (3) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (3) Miracle - Heal
- (5) Miracle - +Recovery
Level 2: Hurdle- (A) Jumping IO
Level 2: StaminaThanks for any advice!
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