Kin Melee/Shield Defense: AAO+Power Siphon= Orgy of death?

Is this as good as it sounds?

Perma Hasten, Softcapped Kin Melee/Shield Defense, leveraging both Power Siphon and Against All Odds at the same time?

I searched the forum and I can't find anyone talking about this, so I am worried I am missing something rather important?

Kin Melee relies heavily on Power Siphon to get an almost constant high damage buff, so gets a proportionally smaller damage buff from AAO than a primary like say, Fire, which only has BU. Having to build up to your optimal damage also means you can't just open with SC like many others would.

It's not so much drawbacks as it is lack of particular synergy. KM/SD would be great, because anything with SD is always great.

I've got a KM/SD levelled to 50, though I only have a budget build on it at the moment. Whether in game or looking at Mids, there is ample synergy between the two sets. The attacks appear balanced against other sets, without any consideration for the impact of Power Siphon.

The first three attacks animate quickly and recharge quickly, which means they tend to have lower base damage than faster-animating or slower-recharging equivalents. Compared to similar powers, though, the numbers are dead on. Compare QS to Shadow Punch or BB to Sting of the Wasp, for instance.

Two things are a little limited within the set: CS's recharge and PS's recharge. Other T9 single-target attacks recharge in 12s-15s, but CS starts at 20s. It hits a bit harder and can instantly refresh PS, but that's a big jump that keeps it from being a regular contributor in your attack chain. PS recharges in 120s, compared to traditional Build Up powers recharging in 90s. That another 33% wait time, but it does last twice as long, so there is a bit of give-and-take there.

KM/SD is just as comparable to DM/SD, it just takes a ... bit more effort. Power Siphon can be dropped down far enough to have a "virtually non-existent downtime." Trigger PS, ramp up, lasts for 20 seconds, but the buffs continue to drop off for another ten seconds, so you really get a 30 second duration out of the deal. Overall you should easily average what could be compared to about an 80% Damage buff for thirty seconds (no math's calculated, just estimating). At minimum it's going to take about six to seven seconds to get up to 156%, maintain it for 20, drop down to ~120, and cascade from there for the next ten seconds until the last attacks buff wears off (give or take a few seconds depending on when you last fired an attack and when PS "ends").

DM does similar in Soul Drain (albeit a buff that lasts consistently for 30 seconds instead of "mostly"), but also has to face a five to ten seconds downtime in most cases (or up to 15 seconds for builds that don't have a cramming of global recharge).

The trade-off here, though, is Concentrated Strike. This one power does more damage in exchange for cutting off its' critical chances and giving you a random chance to pop Power Siphon back up. So you can easily gone from PS "cascading down" for ten seconds, or keeping it active for 40, which is a potentially significant upswing on Soul Drain, but in the end becomes an equal wash. This is why I consider both to be equal in the long run, just why one requires a bit more work.

The positives for KM are in its negatives. It may require a bit more attentive effort than a DM, but KM isn't restricted by "what's nearby." You take away Soul Drain's cannon fodder, and KM's ability to single-handedly perform at high damage levels rises to the top. Not saying you (as a KM) don't benefit from having a mob on you as well with AAO, but the loss of a mob is significantly less than it would be for a DM.

To say there's a lack of synergy, well, that just doesn't make sense. DM/SD requires a mob, so AAO and Soul Drain can work together, but a KM/SD doesn't need the mob so much, so it can avoid the need to have 10 other things beating on your chest. And in regards to "what attack you can lead off with", whether I lead with Concentrated Strike and work my attack chain, or I use it as my five attack in the chain, is comparing Apples to Oranges. A KM who uses CS first, is gimping himself. You PS and start the chain so that when you fire CS it's 5th or 6th in your chain and it gets close to, if not all of the potential +Dam% you just generated. A 156% boosted CS is far superior to an 80-100% Greater Fire Sword/Midnight Grasp/Etc (Critical Chance aside).

If you're going to drop a page-long post about your love for KM, the least you could do is read the two sentences post you're calling nonsense. What I said is there is no particular synergy between KM and SD.

Not even going to bother adressing the rest of your post, when people get emotional about a set facts don't matter.

I made a KM/sd brute and rerolled as a scrapper vastly due to getting the name Overtake(he starts slow, but eventually...) I was tempted to do a journal of having it do AE missions and frankenslotting the build, but haven't officially started to do it. He's only 10, so not much to talk about. Anyway, I think of KM as a way for the developers to give a Claws/DB like set to shield since the BU type power is made more for DPS than burst. To me KM gives me more of a feel towards Claws 2.0 when Focus was so good and Claws did rather good ST damage. It still does decent ST, but Claws 3.0 to me moved more towards AoE damage. which it did rather good in as well.

I've found KM (/FA) particularly fun on Apex, Tin Mage, and the STF, where AVs and tougher targets in general are plentiful. I solo regularly at +4x8, and just tear through tip/radio missions. As far as teaming, I've not done much teaming on it outside of Apex and Tin Mage since hitting 50, but was nearly always teamed/TFing while leveling and it wasn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be. PS is up often, and even if it doesn't stack 5x due to team speed, having a constant/frequent 30-90% damage buff is very nice, and it is up often, and lasts a good time. Even without the buff, you do well. AAO and Shield Charge play into this a little differently than Blazing Aura, Fiery Embrace and Burn do, but you will not be hurting for damage. +30-45% rech from the Spiritual Alpha slot makes PS practically always up at 50. Frequently stackable, even if you can only have 5 of the damage portion stacked regardless. That made me sad. I was looking forward to +210/240% bonus damage, with FE, without team buffs. The lack of crit on CS isn't that noticeable, as the attack hits harder than normal regardless, and is frequently got 30-90% from just PS (AAO would add more), and for me at least, FE makes it so juicy, I one shot bosses plenty. The longer rech on it /is/ noticeable however (though not really an issue after the alpha, slotting, and sets). The nonboss portion of the mob isn't even worth mentioning, even at +4 if you blink, you won't even notice the rest of it was there, and I think you'd see something similar with /SD.

i think km/sd has some synergy. people have spoken before about the stacked -dmg. not a whole lot of aoe though, but of course you can supplement that with epic/patron. the main difference is, for example, rage works on patron powers. power siphon, you have to activate 5 km powers first.

but i bet you sit yourself in a s/l farm, and you can run through it pretty fast with another aoe from epic/patron. km is a decent set overall. i like it so far. (24 atm on my km/sd)

KM makes me think of the off spring that would be made if Energy Melee and Claws got together...

It's really quite a capable set that does well for solo'ing hard single targets such as AVs/EB/etc and is decent for larger spawns of lesser critters with Shield Charge and Burst. The -dmg that comes with both sets is also quite nice to have vs those harder hitting mobs. Sadly, we scrappers don't get access to Darkest Night epic power that Tankers and Brutes do but it's still a nice synergistic edge that no other scrapper set(s) can provide.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.