Rise to the Challenge!
By
Captain_Karate,
Posted on: 2011-02-25 10:43 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I was able to break away for lunch for a bit. Here's my lvl50 SS/WP Brute. Current RttC slotting has the 4 DWDs
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Kimber Lee Luster: Level 50 Mutation Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Punch
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (5) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (7) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
- (9) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (A) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
- (11) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
- (11) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (13) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
- (13) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (15) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
- (17) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (17) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (A) Miracle - Heal/Endurance
- (19) Miracle - Heal
- (19) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (21) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (15) Unbreakable Constraint - Hold/Recharge
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (25) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (25) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (27) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (29) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
- (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (21) Recharge Reduction IO
- (31) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (33) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff
- (33) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge
- (33) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
- (34) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
- (34) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (34) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (A) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff
- (36) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (36) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (36) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (37) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (37) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (39) Endurance Modification IO
- (39) Endurance Modification IO
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (29) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (37) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (39) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
- (40) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (40) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
- (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
- (43) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
- (45) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (45) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
- (45) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
- (46) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
- (A) Rectified Reticle - Increased Perception
- (50) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff
- (A) Taunt Duration IO
- (A) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: Elusive Mind
Level 50: Spiritual Partial Radial Revamp
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Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (5) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (7) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (31) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Jumping
- (A) Recharge Reduction
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift
- (A) Run Speed
- (A) Jumping
- (A) Healing IO
- (48) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (48) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
- (46) Endurance Modification IO
- (46) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (48) Performance Shifter - EndMod
Quote:
How much flexibility is there in this build?|
Originally Posted by Socorro
I was able to break away for lunch for a bit. Here's my lvl50 SS/WP Brute. Current RttC slotting has the 4 DWDs
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I ask because:
- Tactics is a waste of endurance if you already have Rage.
- Assault is not granting as much of a benefit as you might think due to +Damage bonus saturation from Fury & Rage.
- Handclap is a power I simply can't condone.
I don't have mids in front of me to put it in and look, but both sets of upper numbers look really small to me. With full RttC my brute bounces between 165hp/sec and 200 hp/sec. I guess try it again and watch your power stats to make sure you have the cap on the RttC.
Quote:
Thanks, but not asking for a critique of my build outside of RttC issues as discussed in the thread. This build runs solo at +8, can do the RWZ challenge easily, can solo Pylons (or just stand next to one indefinetly), so I'm plenty happy with it even though I have some less than popular powers selected.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
How much flexibility is there in this build?
I ask because:
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But to address your points anyway...
1) I got tactics primarily so I can have 2 of the Recticule IO set for a bit more S/L Def bonus, and it helps your team
2) I got Assault simply because I had everything else I wanted, it is like using a small red all the time, and it helps your team
3) I got Handclap because again there's nothing else I wanted and it's quite thematic for a Superstrong character. Finally, while soloing, I love pushing mob numbers to the limits. On those rare moments where my Greenbar does start to drop, I've discovered the Handclap can give you a moment to recover. It's kept me from faceplanting a few times now. More useful powers out there, certainlyh, but Handclap's not utterly useless for the way I play.
Quote:
I dunno. I monitor that stat all the time. 4 Numinas in there currently (plus good slotting in other heal powers). What else can be done?
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Originally Posted by MajorTractor
I don't have mids in front of me to put it in and look, but both sets of upper numbers look really small to me. With full RttC my brute bounces between 165hp/sec and 200 hp/sec. I guess try it again and watch your power stats to make sure you have the cap on the RttC.
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Quote:
I'm not going to say it's impossible, but I don't believe those numbers are accurate.|
Originally Posted by MajorTractor
I don't have mids in front of me to put it in and look, but both sets of upper numbers look really small to me. With full RttC my brute bounces between 165hp/sec and 200 hp/sec. I guess try it again and watch your power stats to make sure you have the cap on the RttC.
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With 2550 HP, 92% regeneration bonuses from sets (incidental), total regeneration with RttC fully saturated at 1155%, ED capped heal values for RttC, Fast Healing & Health - I'm at like 120~125 HP/s (not including the fluctuation s from procs).
The only thing I don't have is the Spiritual alpha slot, but I don't think that would add another 40 HP/s.
The 200 HP/s is a fluctuation due to the heal procs btw, that's not actually your regen, I don't even think WP tankers can get that high unbuffed.
Quote:
I was thinking the same thing but didn't have the nerve to say it, as many are more well versed at IO crunching than I am. 165-200 hp/s (even if only when in the middle of large mobs) is a stat that I would strongly consider redoing my build for.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I'm not going to say it's impossible, but I don't believe those numbers are accurate...
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Ran through Mids and here is what I've got...
1. When I look at hp/sec figures, I get a different number for the 4xDWD setup's regen rate than Socorro listed earlier. I see 68.87 hp/sec, which means a difference of 2.82 hp/sec that progresses steadily upward to 6.93 hp/sec when facing 10 opponents. This looks more like what I would expect to see.
2. At the (admittedly wholly-arbitrary) 100dps per opponent figure the Regen build will take somewhere between 0.2dps and 0.4dps more damage per opponent than the ToHit build, depending on the damage type (S/L is 0.2). Once you get over the RttC cap of ten, there is no difference between the two in incoming dps. Note that the Regen build doesn't continue to widen this gap very effectively, though it does maintain an advantage (thoughts on that next).
3. The Spiritual Alpha slotting helps make up for some of the missing heal slotting, to some degree. Moving from Partial Radial Revamp to Core Paragon will help the Regen build, because it will allow for greater enhancement over ED restrictions. However, in the meantime, the Partial Radial Revamp means less of an impact.
4. This is a low-HP build (2367hp) that focuses heavily on recharge. HPT isn't slotted at all for +HP, for instance. I think most of us are used to HP-heavy WP/* builds, so we may've expected stronger results. With a low-HP build, the impact of +Regen is minimized. The more HP you have to work with, the bigger the benefit of +Regen.
EDIT: And I thought I was talking WP/SS Tanker for most of this, which is what the OP was working on, but Socorro's on a Brute. That doesn't change the numbers in this post, but it does make it impossible to get to the hit point levels I was expecting to see.
Quote:
The thing missing from all of this is that there is no -To Hit build vs. Regen build debate necessary.|
Originally Posted by streetlight
At the (admittedly wholly-arbitrary) 100dps per opponent figure the Regen build will take somewhere between 0.2dps and 0.4dps more damage per opponent than the ToHit build, depending on the damage type (S/L is 0.2). Once you get over the RttC cap of ten, there is no difference between the two in incoming dps. Note that the Regen build doesn't continue to widen this gap very effectively, though it does maintain an advantage (thoughts on that next).
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The goal is softcapped defense (or near Softcap adding -To Hit to cover the gap), and this can be achieved without slotting Dark Watcher in RttC - even on a Brute.
On top of this, you can still pack 120 HP/S regen, 2500+ HP and if you can fit it into your build, Darkest Night. This is a much better route for -To Hit, and also debuffs your enemies damage as well.
Quote:
While I'm pretty happy with my build. It blows most of the game away. The only thing I can't do is solo most AVs (I have a couple). Still, I'm interested in a SS/WP Brute build that has the stats you describe. Do you (or anyone) have a build already you could post?|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
The thing missing from all of this is that there is no -To Hit build vs. Regen build debate necessary.
The goal is softcapped defense (or near Softcap adding -To Hit to cover the gap), and this can be achieved without slotting Dark Watcher in RttC - even on a Brute. On top of this, you can still pack 120 HP/S regen, 2500+ HP and if you can fit it into your build, Darkest Night. This is a much better route for -To Hit, and also debuffs your enemies damage as well. |
Thanks
Quote:
I'll be able to put up a reworked version of your build later tonight.
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Originally Posted by Socorro
While I'm pretty happy with my build. It blows most of the game away. The only thing I can't do is solo most AVs (I have a couple). Still, I'm interested in a SS/WP Brute build that has the stats you describe. Do you (or anyone) have a build already you could post?
Thanks |
Quote:
If you don't already have an SS/WP brute build handy, you don't have to go that much trouble redesigning mine, really. 'Course, if you do (maybe making builds is fun in itself for you), I'll certainly appreciate it and grab it, but I didn't want to ask anyone to do true time-consuming stuff on my behalf. Still, thanks |
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I'll be able to put up a reworked version of your build later tonight.
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My mids is acting goofing and isn't liking the link, could you post the data chunk?
Quote:
If only it was like that, my very strong WPs (all of them) would instantly enter godhood.. And that is probably why (in general, not me specifically) it is that way, and won't ever change..
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Originally Posted by Captain_Karate
Ah ok. I was assuming that the -to hit would be multiplied by how many enemies were around me? Cuz my regeneration seems to vary depending on how big the mob is, or at least that is how it appears to me. I have it monitored on my combat attributes window, and in combat it seems to move up and down a lot. RttC says it affects 10 targets max, so would the -3.5% be per enemy, or total?
Edit *ah I see it is -3.5% per TARGET. Duh. lol So ya...not really worth slotting for that I guess. I was kinda thinking it was -to hit = +def. You know like 10 targets would make it -35% to hit, or adding +35% defence type thing. How wrong I was. @_@* |
Here's a quick take on it.
You lose a bit of recovery, but your consumption is lower overall - even with darkest night running.
Don't be too blown away by the regen numbers, I plugged in the Spiritual Core paragon to see what it would look like, I included the numbers for Spiritual Partial Radial in parenthesis.
Regen 139 HP/s with 10 in range of RttC. (136 HP/S)
2640 HP (2633)
46% vs. SM & L and with Darkest Night running you reach a quasi-softcap against all other positions (unless facing an AV).
Hasten is perma with 2 slots, and Rage can be double stacked.
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1464;709;1418;HEX;| |78DA65946B6F124114866760E985D20BD296DE0BF442A1ED965513EF31D1B649534| |88A586BFC20C1762C6B107059A27EF38B7FC00FFADBBC567F80977FB09E3DEFB490| |D0A4F3CC9E79F79D33E7CC5278B31D11E2DD5D2187EED72AAD56F99ED376D540A1E| |D565CBB518FEEDB2F9F292791572A916FB75CE5F40B216658542EA89A5266A9DD54| |4EB9E43AAA7EEA56E358DA56CF55BDA5CC23BB566B365E2B27BA57AF2A92B8E6F92| |47CD068D4CC5253A993084FF3AAD2B4EBA7C3FCB06B9F565D7A1A3D5F3A514EAB6A| |37E33B4DFBD8C426A546BB562E54FCACDE4E515A1BF49F9242FF794171E00744A00| |83C601825C6675F22B5EE902669D157245862A004C409F362496A99F00C09BF30FC| |C2F08BC02FF242F86F7DA131A86D830B6C3BB2C8184B0229C6575284A033423B1CB| |AB407208BF143C6029259A1B11F5984FA91C508F69D44325348662A1BF0E53319C6| |378A0D6293C0E0181BCDC4603BCE4891E7100472689D0F300E4CD2CAB05E1986383| |1C1F84EB15119E6138E3EE4D01C524E22E5E4755A338262959EA23AE7689D134A34| |18C92663E915E0002DC60FD2C77401639F38B4FC81B19A105D9094E084EEF3042A3| |2898ACCA122CBA848907471ED17474356D190341A9246430CD24DEB5A4DA356199C| |3B83929DD1D2AC16CC429085200B41941CE6B5601EB54A4060693F1A1721082DBEE| |733656F30366E02B7803B8CCDDB8CB4F42FB5FF9A275268CE2F1A577076B17239E8| |878E695CD3D7746D935FCC98B0D9625839C04249C96F5D3BAC5B6C7A463F032642D| |2BC86166E69FE24E4B43C871CE68C9EEFCC40E1FB50F80574236F5C7C67428CC0EE| |C0B8F8A6848C22B6DBD179C5B09F04E6475DF3C75DF3275DF3A75DF3C131FA00E1E| |DFDA6B8D47BCB18F6F9D31DD3F9FCEDC402127779EB11802BFDAF23084ADCBF65DC| |CD34EEE6E64746AE53147F7FCF13D99E88D513B9DA13B9D213F107AF4867B0F439F| |F0323F7DFD4| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Quote:
Hey, I didn't get a chance to see your data chunk request until now. I got it but I see you've already worked up a build. Wow, all I can say is thanks for going thru the effort. Now let me load it and have a looksee.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Here's a quick take on it.
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btw, I had another idea to accomplish similiar - I post it at some point for critique.
Thanks again
I agree that the 200 is prob a fluctuation because mids shows the 160 number.
My numbers are including my ultra rare spiritual alpha and I am way past ED on all my regen and healing powers because of it (rttc is 130% after ED). My brute also has 2700+ hitpoints that skew the numbers up more.
Plus i'm not soft capped so S/L. I'm about a small/medium purple from soft cap on ranged and meele though.
This character has basically retired my stoner because he feels just as tough (if not more) without all the granite slows and stuff.
Whatever you guys can believe me or not.
Quote:
I can certainly believe Mids is showing you those numbers, and they may even be right. As for me, after playing around with RttC heal slotting and seeing my hp/s Regen with 1 foe in range vs 10 foes in ranges, I'm not fully trusting in all the numbers Mids is giving me...
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Originally Posted by MajorTractor
...Whatever you guys can believe me or not.
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Quote:
NP, if you want to put up some other build ideas in the Brute forum I'll take a look.|
Originally Posted by Socorro
Hey, I didn't get a chance to see your data chunk request until now. I got it but I see you've already worked up a build. Wow, all I can say is thanks for going thru the effort. Now let me load it and have a looksee.
btw, I had another idea to accomplish similiar - I post it at some point for critique. Thanks again |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MajorTractor
I agree that the 200 is prob a fluctuation because mids shows the 160 number.
My numbers are including my ultra rare spiritual alpha and I am way past ED on all my regen and healing powers because of it (rttc is 130% after ED). My brute also has 2700+ hitpoints that skew the numbers up more. Plus i'm not soft capped so S/L. I'm about a small/medium purple from soft cap on ranged and meele though. This character has basically retired my stoner because he feels just as tough (if not more) without all the granite slows and stuff. Whatever you guys can believe me or not. |
I think if you focused even more on HP at the cost of DEF & Rech to hit something like 2800+ HP, 160 HP/S sounds very possible.
Sorry for doubting, I hadn't considered the Spiritual Alpha at the time.
Not just mids numbers my mids is my exact live verson and the numbers match
and recharge is pretty good but thats basically only thanks to FF proc in footstomp and 5 lotg 7.5's and my alpha. Footstomp is about 5-6 seconds depending on how many mobs around me for the FF proc
When I get home from work I'll have to play on mids and do a soft cap S/L build and see what I can come up with. My Fire/Rad corr has soft cap S/L (well not quite but close enough) and its mega awesome.
I made his build for Fight Clubbing Brutes in Arena before DR in PvP and all the changes that KINDA ruined PvP for Melee back in I14 or whenever it was.
IDK.... I'll need to really convince myself that the new build would be better.....If it aint broke don't fix it.....
Well, it's nice to know I'm not too stubborn to take advice...
While I didn't want to switch fully to the build Deus_Otiosus provided (I really wanted to keep my relatively high recharge, not give up most of my Hecatombs, and maintain my theme), some of those Regen Numbers he and others provided were just too hard to ignore. So taking their advice, I tweaked my build (as seen a few posts up) slightly.
*I took 1 slot from Rage (but added to Recharge IOs, so it's recharge is higher than what I had)
*took 1 slot from HPT, and replaced all Reactive Armors with Numinas
*took 2 slots from RttC, replaced all Dark Watcher's with Numinas and Golgi
*took 1 slot from Indomitable Will (thus one LotG)
*Added those 5 slots to Taunt, and filled all 6-slots with Perfect Zingers
Final Result: S/L Defense sitting at 45.9%, most other defenses at 35%ish, Hitpoints nearly 200 higher (near 2600), and Regen in the 135ish hp/s range.
Very pleased. Yes, the numbers could be a bit better, but my theme still matters a bit (my Brute is basically just a superstrong brick), so stuff like Gloom is out. But with Footstomp available about every 5 secs (due to high recharge and recharge proc), I've got world-killer AoE already (and I keep grenades in my back pocket if xtra is needed). Plus, even though I don't hunt AVs, my Single Target ability mattered, and it remained unchanged from what I had, so I can still take down a Pylon should I get the notion.
So, just want to throw in a another thank you to those who showed me the numbers.
Prior to then, it should be easy to replicate in Mids for anyone who wanted to try. Just 4 Numinas vs 2-Numinas in RttC, set to level 50 (using the IOs that optimize Healing). Then, with the power selected, you move the slider from 1 Foe to 10 Foes, then look at Regen Numbers. Yes, I have other IOs and such, but for the basic issue at hand, Numina Slotting in RttC should reveal the relevent numbers.