A) the devs do read the forums
B) Shield buffs are balanced by their recharge times as well as how strong they are.
C0 I'm not sure why you're having issues with your henchmen mine aggro just fine.
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What i mean is. if your in a group, and your henchmen are in defensive stance and you yourself are shooting. in any other game your minions would attack aswell even in defensive. in this game you yourself need to get hit in order for them to attack in defensive stance.|
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
A) the devs do read the forums
B) Shield buffs are balanced by their recharge times as well as how strong they are. C0 I'm not sure why you're having issues with your henchmen mine aggro just fine. |
basicly what it comes down to is. i dont wanna be switching aggressive stance/defensive stance the whole time in order to function in groups. would be nice if they attack if they notice your going into combat,without you having to get hit first before they react.
i also feel like forcing people to single buff certain buffs like fire shield is needlessly time consuming. i on the other hand do understand that certain extremely good ones should remain single buff obviously. but ... basic ones should be group. and more then one person ...
to bring up a much hated example, currently every class buff in WoW buffs groups if your in one. I dont see the downside in making buffing more user friendly! but im also not omnipotent and want to know why making buffs group buffs in this game, or increasing the duration would break CoH gameplay. if im totaly in the dark on this feel free to inform me.
Part of the trouble is that many of the buffing classes are balanced around the fact that they can't currently target themselves. If the buffs were made AoE (and even if they were made more expensive, like the henchmen upgrades) there's a very good chance that they'd end up having to be weakened as well. Because an AoE Fire Shield would hit the caster, as well. I don't think the tech currently exists for single cast AoE powers to allow them to either change cost as they hit more targets, or to prevent them from "splashing" back onto the caster. (There are a few toggle powers that do scale based on the number of targets. But I'm pretty sure that basically no one wants shield powers to work that way - think of what would happen in a Rikti Ship Raid, or even just a team with more than one or two Masterminds.)
As far as the pets, I'm not certain if it's a deliberate balancing issue, or simply a limitation of the AI in this game. Controllers and Dominators have pets that basically attack everything in sight, rather than focusing on their owners' targets. All the temporary pets that I know of work the same way, acting just like a henchman set to Aggressive. It's possible that the kind of "assist" attacks that you're describing just aren't possible with the AI scripting that this game uses.
Again though, Masterminds are balanced around the current AI. You can use Bodyguard mode, and effectively treat your pets as extensions of your own health pool. Or you can call out targets for them, at the risk of losing part of your own defensive capability if something attacks you. If the devs added the sort of Assist AI that you're describing, they might feel that they needed to rebalance pets at the same time. Most of those other games either only allow each player to have one pet at a time, or the pets are fairly fragile.
Cedric, I agree with you. Before I start, I have a 43 Bots/Traps and a 35 Bots/Dark.
The only way to remain in BG mode, which, to me, is a major reason/purpose of playing an MM, is Defensive+Follow, and Defense+GoTo. Anything else (even Defensive+Target), and the player is taking the full brunt of the damage.
I'm traps, so I've built for high DEF in my build. I'm also aggressive in my playstyle. I won't always wait for Seeker Drones to recharge before jumping in, and sometimes I start off with Provoke from inside my FFG. The point is that I willingly jump into the muck and lay that PGT ASAP. But because of the high DEF, I don't always get hit right away. Sooo the bots stomp along in right beside me, and...stand there. Only when I actually get HIT (or they do, I think), do they start blasting away. I don't like getting hit. If my bots were TRUE "bodyguards," *any* offensive action against me and my bots would act.
Example: I get into a fight. My bodyguard is standing right there. My foe swings once, misses me. Bodyguard stands there eating a twinkie. I swing back. Bodyguard is now eating a Twix bar. My foe swings again and nails me in the jaw. Only THEN does the bodyguard decide to drop the beef jerky and takes action to beat up my foe? That is one fired bodyguard!
Suggestion: If they are in Defensive+Follow, I want them to start blasting as soon as I "actively engage with an enemy."
This can be defined as:
1. An enemy attacking me, whether they hit OR miss me
2. I start a "direct attack" an enemy, assume ST or AoE attack
3. I start an "indirect attack" (trap, pet, debuff, etc) and an enemy is within the bot's aggro radius
Also, Defensive+Target should not cancel BG mode. To me this is just focusing efforts and is much different than aggressive because it is in effect, micromanagement.
Bottom line: If I want my bots to stand around, that's what I have Passive for!
My $0.02
MT
Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."
Gotta agree things should work like Master Templar says. If they don't, most likely cause is operator error. Long distant second possibility is a bug of some sort. In between is likely lag.
OP: Try to get an experienced mastermind on your server to show you the ropes, if you are still confused after reading that excellent explaination. It's pretty amazing when you figure it out.
hi guys! and thank you very much for the replies!! 
ive currently resolved the situation a bit in that ive assigned some mouse button location for the agressive/defensive stance so that i dont have to annoy myself by going for the menu on the pet bar and switch it to agressive when i dont take hits, and back to the menu-defensive when suddenly i get attention and i dont wanna die! :P
i guess the main point i wanted to make with this thread is that some actions in the game keep you busy for no reason, and they all add up in that you suddenly find yourself wasting a lot of time to do things that ... logically should be dealt with automaticly .. or otherwise THIS IS HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE and i dont want anybody feel like im demanding anything!
i think everything has been said though:
-Single buffing my army = timesink
-summoning new henchmen that need upgrades just so they dont die to fast = timesink (if possible this should be passive, or perhaps if one of your other henchmen has all the upgrades all the new ones you summon should be that upgraded 2) although this could be overpowered in pvp
-switching stances that could be avoided by good ai = timesink
just minor gripes! im realy realy enjoying my MM! but i just thought ide share my thoughts, wich i already said above i think.
thx again for the replies people
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Your first definition is already active ingame. Regardless of an attack hitting or missing you (or one of the henchmen) your henches will return fire. However, they may stand there for a little bit if you recently issued any commands to them (for instance, running into the spawn, then hitting a "Follow" command - they will endeavour to undertake this command first, before aggroing based on the attacks you have been subject to)|
Originally Posted by Master_Templar
Suggestion: If they are in Defensive+Follow, I want them to start blasting as soon as I "actively engage with an enemy."
This can be defined as: 1. An enemy attacking me, whether they hit OR miss me 2. I start a "direct attack" an enemy, assume ST or AoE attack 3. I start an "indirect attack" (trap, pet, debuff, etc) and an enemy is within the bot's aggro radius |
I'd actually not like to see either 2 or 3 make their way ingame. The henchmen have discrete controls for a reason - I don't want them to link to what I'm doing! Your 2 and 3 would be more suited to the Aggressive stance in my mind.
For reference, I very rarely use Bodyguard and am more liable to issue multiple "Attack" commands in any given fight.
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Nice info here. My #1 I might not realize as much (the latter part) because I never solo. Even if I'm the first in the fray, the team usually isn't far behind. So, if it is like you said, that "lag" in the commands is just long enough for the foes to target other toons aside from me (e.g. something with more threat level from attacking: scrap or w/e). Because I've had cases when I run in first, the mob starts going after me, bots clomp in and follow, rest of team follows, spawn is getting whittled down and bots are still standing around picking their noses. This is on Def+Follow. Sometimes I will throw them on Aggressive if the mob is "easy enough" and just let them have at it, or, issue a direct attack at a boss or something. |
Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
Your first definition is already active ingame. Regardless of an attack hitting or missing you (or one of the henchmen) your henches will return fire. However, they may stand there for a little bit if you recently issued any commands to them (for instance, running into the spawn, then hitting a "Follow" command - they will endeavour to undertake this command first, before aggroing based on the attacks you have been subject to)
I'd actually not like to see either 2 or 3 make their way ingame. The henchmen have discrete controls for a reason - I don't want them to link to what I'm doing! Your 2 and 3 would be more suited to the Aggressive stance in my mind. For reference, I very rarely use Bodyguard and am more liable to issue multiple "Attack" commands in any given fight. |
The difference between 2 and 3 vs Aggressive is of course BG vs. non-BG. Also I think of it in this way: Aggressive should be just that, go crazy on whatever you see. Defensive should be "back me up when I get in there, no matter who starts the fight!"
I guess what I would like to see is a "follow" based on ACTIONS (both attacking and physical movement), not just "follow" in terms of strictly movement. Aggressive is not this, and neither is Defensive.
MT
Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."
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Perhaps a new command of "Mirror" is needed - attacking what you attack, following when you move, etc.|
Originally Posted by Master_Templar
I guess what I would like to see is a "follow" based on ACTIONS (both attacking and physical movement), not just "follow" in terms of strictly movement. Aggressive is not this, and neither is Defensive
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Not sure that the AI could do it, but still would perhaps be nice.
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Or better yet.. make BG mode active.. all the time.
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Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
Perhaps a new command of "Mirror" is needed - attacking what you attack, following when you move, etc.
Not sure that the AI could do it, but still would perhaps be nice. |
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That I definitely do not want. I can deal with damage to myself quickly enough - dealing with heavy damage to six henchmen is beyond the read of a Bots/FF Mastermind.|
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
Or better yet.. make BG mode active.. all the time.
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Perhaps making Bodyguard itself a separate status (e.g. /petcomall Aggessive Stay Guardon or /petcomall Defensive Follow Guardoff) would be a good addition.
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This has been my experience as well. Just like Brute Fury, I have found that you only need to be targeted by an attack to get your Defensive minions to trigger, not actually get hit by it. That being said, there is most definitely a delay between when the incoming attack is resolved and when your minions react.
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Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
Your first definition is already active ingame. Regardless of an attack hitting or missing you (or one of the henchmen) your henches will return fire.
|
Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...
All ide like to get out of this is. My pets not standing idle when i attack something in defensive stance. doesnt realy need a rename or anything. me being in combat = something they should respond to. its defensive stance, not passive stare at combat.
and yea, i also do not agree agressive stance in combination with bodyguard mode.
I leave my bots on defensive always, and use petcom_x attack to control my bots as though they are my own attacks for the initial strike. I never use my own attacks until my bots have already drawn the aggro. Works pretty well for me.
Hiya guys, erm, ive been wondering about something a long time. in most games if you have pets on defensive stance and you yourself attack something they will join in because they show going from passive to combat (since your shooting)
has there be any talk about this before? is it ever going to change ? right now changing from agressive to defensive the whole time cuz they wont react if i dont get hit is quite ..... unnecessary ....
Also ! after so many years of this game being out. One would figure they would have changed the fact that for example fire shield from thermal radiation secondary for MM's would buff groups instead of individually. or at least have more then a 5 minute duration.
I know the devs dont rly check the forums (or so ive heard) but ide just like to throw it out here on the forums and share thoughts with you, the readers. Thanks for reading.