D'oh, I'd almost talked myself into Fire, but had forgotten about the vast amout of -recharge in Psi! Lots of mittigation! Input please.
The mititgation for the PSi does not in anyway make up for the raw carnage and destruction you can do with fire...especially with Embrace of Fire. Go with /Fire you will not be sorry. Psi isn't what it use to be.
Well, honestly with plant you don't need to worry "much" about mitigation because seeds and CC take a lot of that away. I personally do not like fire because I do not like to position myself to make them work. "OK hold on one sec guys, I need to position this attack so I can kill you faster!, Stop attacking me for a sec!"/ I do like combustion a lot for certain sets and with plant it lets you get in melee with few worries. I skip combustion on some of the more range primaries.
I personally love Psi though and think the re-balance was exceptional. It might be true that fire does more damage, but honestly most stuff dies before you even get that full dot duration which always annoyed me. I think PS is the best AoE in the game still next to FS and with the added chance to stun it is even more awesome.
I do like Drain Psyche, but it was never an extreme game changer for me honestly. It did help a lot, but if you get to the point where you need it to live or die then you are most likely dead anyway. It can save you in situations where maybe you use your aoe hold and then drain them since they aren't attacking you of course and If you get to the soft cap then it can definitely be a life safer since you get hit so much less.
The only time I do not like Psi is against robots, but they still die very fast. The poster above me is correct though Psi is not what it used to be ... it is better.
"I have always been a fan of science fiction. It all started when my parents forced me to go to church when I was a child."
Let's break it down by features and advantage rating (my opinion):
ST Ranged
Flares, Fire Blast, Blaze vs. Psi Dart, Mental Blast, Subdue
Advantage: Fire
AoE
Combustion, Fire Breath vs Psi Scream, Psi Shockwave
Advantage: Psi
Snipe
Fiery Bolt vs Psi Lance
Advantage: Fire
Melee
Incinerate vs Mind Probe, TK Thrust
Advantage: Psi
Utility Powers
Consume, Embrace Fire vs Drain Psyche
Advantage... it's a close one and really depends on your primary... based on plant control favoring ranged play, I'd say Fire simply for embrace
Secondary Effects
Fire has extra dmg vs. psi has -recharge. Furthermore, psi attacks bring the following controls - knockback (TK Thrust), Immob (Subdue), -regen/-recovery (DP), stun (PSW).
Advantage: Psi
Resistant Foes
I've seen very few fire resistant foes in-game, whereas every robot out there has psi resistance. Carnies have high psi defense.
Advantage: Fire
Hope that helps
Please buff Ice Control.
While many complain that /psi is not huge on damage, it should be noted psychic scream's damage was boosted by quite a bit, even over the straight damage boost. As such, /psy has its AoE split between its cone and PbAoE. Use them both early and often if you go /psy.
Also note: the way confusion works, plant/ has one a very favorable use with tight aoe's as confused mobs often clump up to hit each other. This helps drain psyche, but also helps clump stuff for /fire.
Fire has no mitigation outside of kill speed, but to many that is enough. Consume can be handy for an extra bit of endurance now and then. /psi is decent at melee/ranged/aoe, but not phenomenal at one or the other. the /ice will boost this, of course, but will also boost /fire. The big split really does just come down to drain psyche vs. embrace of fire.
/fire gets a bit too much credit at times in my book, but I favor survivability, so /psy fits that style a bit better. Drain psyche on high +recharge means not only can you one-shot hold most foes, anything that slips through is quickly. /fire means you carry more greens, but see more orange.
Quote:
The goal of fire, especially going /fire/fire, is to kill everything before it escapes your initial CC. The sustained burst damage with embrace really helps this along significantly. |
Originally Posted by Jharber
Well, honestly with plant you don't need to worry "much" about mitigation because seeds and CC take a lot of that away. I personally do not like fire because I do not like to position myself to make them work. "OK hold on one sec guys, I need to position this attack so I can kill you faster!, Stop attacking me for a sec!"/ I do like combustion a lot for certain sets and with plant it lets you get in melee with few worries. I skip combustion on some of the more range primaries.
I personally love Psi though and think the re-balance was exceptional. It might be true that fire does more damage, but honestly most stuff dies before you even get that full dot duration which always annoyed me. I think PS is the best AoE in the game still next to FS and with the added chance to stun it is even more awesome. I do like Drain Psyche, but it was never an extreme game changer for me honestly. It did help a lot, but if you get to the point where you need it to live or die then you are most likely dead anyway. It can save you in situations where maybe you use your aoe hold and then drain them since they aren't attacking you of course and If you get to the soft cap then it can definitely be a life safer since you get hit so much less. |
How much positioning do you really need? I mean you hit everything with confuse, it immediately clumps together, you drop roots, and then fire breath, fireball, rain of fire, fire breath, rinse/repeat. Finish what is left with ST attacks. It is going to take a lot less effort than trying to hit everything in a PBAoE.
You're doing something right if your problem is everything dies too fast. If that is truly the only downside of the powerset, maybe you should try bumping it up to +1 or higher. That would solve that issue real fast.
You can go in, almost completely eliminate a spawn with almost no alpha (sleep then confuse), and if things do happen to go awry after dropping all your nukes, you can just res, kill what is left or retreat and regroup. You lose very little time if you have frenzy. Optimally, the enemies shouldn't be attacking you enough anyway to be a concern.
I don't see what the big gain is about trying to soft cap defenses, especially with a fire ancillary. To me capping your damage potential is far more important. You rarely need the heightened defense with a control set + permadom, and when you do just burn a couple purples. A few small purples on an as needed basis outshines trying to build against the focus of the class imo.
I'd go with Plant/Fire/Fire or Plant/Fire/Ice myself.
* Why Ice APP over Fire? Because Sleet is that good for your entire team and will also help things like Confused enemies and the attacks and PROCs in Creepers and Roots hit harder. And Creepers can proc a lot.
Not sure of your totals but Creepers looks underslotted for recharge in those build. The best way to get lots and lots of creepers quickly in the middle of the spawn (and hence more PROCs) is to summon it there, I'd personally drop the Trap of the Hunter PROC in favour of a Recharge common IO.
If you're feeling flush replace the Acc in Creepers with a Acc/Dam HO (25 million when I bought one over the weekend) and the Dam with a Dam/Recharge from a set of your choice (Air Bursts ones are super-cheap).
Im still pretty new to the game, and am enjoying my Plant/Storm/Ice controller Madre Nature very much, but thought I would try a Dominator. I wasn't sure which of the above two to try. Can anyone recommend one over the other?
Gonna refer to them below by their Assault set as that is the difference between the two. Also I definitely want to play the character as a Mostly ranged toon, so avoided pure melee powers. Took Spore Burst for possible task/strike force use.
As far as I can tell:
Fire would kill faster thanks to Embrace of Fire being up over half the time.
Psi would have more damage types in case I ran up against fire resistant foes (What foes in game are fire resistant?)
It seems like it almost comes down to Embrace of Fire vs. Drain Psyche. Drain Psyche draws me to the Psi set as the insane amount of regen it gives you adds a huge safety factor. Down side is it is pbaoe with tiny radius and short duration (though almost perma below)
Here are the two characters, not close to soft capped as was going for recharge for permadom and almost perma Hasten and Creepers. Hoping lack of soft cap is not a huge issue with Seeds of Confusion, etc
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Green Phoenix: Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Psionic Assault
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(3), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(29), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(46)
Level 1: Psionic Dart -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 2: Roots -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dam%(3), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Posi-Acc/Dmg(5), Posi-Dmg/Rng(7), TotHntr-Dam%(7)
Level 4: Entangle -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(37)
Level 6: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(29)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg(A), Mlais-Dam%(9), Mlais-Acc/Rchg(9), Mlais-Conf/Rng(13), CoPers-Conf%(21), Range-I(21)
Level 10: Mental Blast -- Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Apoc-Dmg(11), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(13), Apoc-Dam%(43)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 14: Spirit Tree -- Heal-I(A)
Level 16: Psychic Scream -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Posi-Dmg/Rng(17), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(19), Posi-Dam%(19), Range-I(37)
Level 18: Vines -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(34), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(46), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(50)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(23), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(25), Nictus-Heal(25), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(27)
Level 22: Spore Burst -- LgcRps-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(A), LgcRps-Acc/Sleep(36), LgcRps-Sleep/Rng(36)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- Posi-Dmg/Rchg(A), Posi-Dam%(27), Acc-I(31), Dmg-I(31), ImpSwft-Dam%(33), TotHntr-Dam%(40)
Level 28: Subdue -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(34), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 30: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(37), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(43), LdyGrey-%Dam(48), Achilles-ResDeb%(48)
Level 35: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Psychic Shockwave -- Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(A), Oblit-Dmg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Oblit-%Dam(40), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Rain of Fire -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 47: Fire Shield -- ResDam-I(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(50)
Level 49: Rise of the Phoenix -- Dmg-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
Here is the fire one:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Fiery Oak: Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Assault
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(5), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(5), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(7), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(15)
Level 1: Flares -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(48), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 2: Roots -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Posi-Acc/Dmg(19), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(19), Posi-Dam%(21), TotHntr-Dam%(21)
Level 4: Fire Breath -- Posi-Dmg/Rng(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(25), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dam%(36), Range-I(37)
Level 6: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(37)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- Mlais-Conf/Rng(A), Mlais-Acc/EndRdx(9), Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg(9), Mlais-Acc/Rchg(11), Range-I(11), CoPers-Conf%(15)
Level 10: Fire Blast -- Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Apoc-Dmg(40), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(43), Apoc-Dam%(43)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Spirit Tree -- Heal-I(A)
Level 16: Embrace of Fire -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Vines -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(23), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(23), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(25)
Level 20: Spore Burst -- LgcRps-Acc/Sleep(A), LgcRps-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(29), LgcRps-Sleep/Rng(31)
Level 22: Combustion -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(50)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(27), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(27), Posi-Dam%(31), ImpSwft-Dam%(31), TotHntr-Dam%(34)
Level 28: Consume -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(29)
Level 30: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(A), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), LdyGrey-%Dam(34), Achilles-ResDeb%(34)
Level 35: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Blaze -- Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(39), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(39), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Range-I(40), Range-I(40)
Level 41: Fire Ball -- Posi-Dmg/Rchg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Rain of Fire -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Posi-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Fire Shield -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(48), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(48)
Level 49: Rise of the Phoenix -- Dmg-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(3)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(3)