Gale vs. Torrent:
Gale- 7.8 Endurance, 8 second recharge, 67.5% accuracy, 50 range, 80 degree arc, 2.17 animation, 10.39 knockback, and 3.6 damage on a defender.
Torrent- 14.35 Endurance, 15 second recharge, 75% accuracy, 80 range, 30 degree arc, 1.03 animation, 10.39 knockback, -9.375% to-hit debuff and 14.46 damage on a defender.
Honestly, I like the wide cone and that it's level 1 (that and it's better solo and mitigation than O2). However, I see the merits of Torrent but by level 28 when I got Torrent, I already had Gale down pretty well and learning new range/degree was somewhat annoying. So instead of duplicating a power for a tad bit of debuff/damage, I just kept Gale.
Most variables between Defender and Corruptor versions of Storm give a bit of preference towards Defender (but not by too much). Also, the to-hit debuff from defenders is 1.8% stronger, for about 4-6 more base damage, then add scourge in only once you've got them half health though.
Honestly, I'm rather happy with my Defender Storm/Dark. I tend to like survivability over more damage though.
50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
Personally, I'm a bigger fan of storm as a defender simply because of the faster access to the powers that you really, really want. The ability to skip gale, as you pointed out, is a bonus if you dislike the hallway clearing cone in favor of the smaller, murkier torrent.
Because you plan on running full teams, I think the defender would be the optimal choice for the pairing. Damage-wise, the "heavy hitting" powers of dark tend to be DoTs, so you won't ever be killing things as quickly as you would with another set (ice or energy, for example) even if you do choose corruptor over defender. Your primary, as a defender, will throw in some damage powers that can pick up the slack much sooner than you would see with a corruptor.
Talen_Lee: Taking absorb pain is like branding 'H' on your forehead. Which stands for 'Failure'
Scarf_Girl: ever since I six slotted my Rp with cyber/emo Hami-O enhancements they haven't been able to touch me
Do Dark Blast's DoTs benefit from Scourge? I know Rains do; are these the exception and not the norm?
I don't know as much as I should about these two classes as I've always played MMs in the past, I'm branching out so to speak.
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Of course they do, but the chances of seeing that on a team is pretty minimal. It's great for solo play, but on a team you might see gloom start scourging on a foe only for them to be cut down a second later.
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Originally Posted by D4nnYb0Y
Do Dark Blast's DoTs benefit from Scourge? I know Rains do; are these the exception and not the norm?
I don't know as much as I should about these two classes as I've always played MMs in the past, I'm branching out so to speak. |
Talen_Lee: Taking absorb pain is like branding 'H' on your forehead. Which stands for 'Failure'
Scarf_Girl: ever since I six slotted my Rp with cyber/emo Hami-O enhancements they haven't been able to touch me
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Whether or not it makes a practical difference or not, depends on how much your crunching numbers and what the make up is of the rest of the team. Both corruptors and controllers have enough -recharge with Freezing Rain and Snow Storm to floor +2 enemies (defenders can do it to +3) and floor movement on even con enemies (defenders can do it to +3).|
Originally Posted by D4nnYb0Y
I wouldn't mind a little extra damage (maybe actually using Blackstar?) but it's not a deal breaker. If Defenders have significantly higher numbers on their /Storm controls and debuffs I'll probably go with them. Mid's states theres a variance on a few powers but I'd like to know if it makes a practical difference in game.
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Running Maneuvers and Steamy Mist Defenders can hit 8.75% defense to team unenhanced, corruptors can hit 6.4% unenhanced (when enhanced 14% vs. 10%). Whether or not that makes a practical difference is highly subjective. If you have a widow on your team soft capping everyone already, then no, it doesn't really make a difference. If you have no other defense on your team then it also doesn't make that much difference. However, if combined with other buffs on the team, and especially since so many folks build for defense these days, that couple percent has the potential to make a difference. Also if you're planning on soft capping a build, it can be easier to do with defenders (not to mention that you can get some pretty impressive resistance for yourself as well with an epic shield, tough, and the cardiac boost).
20% resistance to fire/cold/energy for defenders versus 15% for corruptors.
Freezing Rain: 35% versus 30% -resistance. A high recharge Storm defender can triple stack Freezing rain, so that can become 105% vs. 90%. Of course this is only in ideal cases due to the Freezing Rain bug, but a 10% difference in -res can be common.
Hurricane: 30% vs. 37.5%, not a huge difference and massive enough to be powerful regardless.
Tornado: same pet summoned for both so there's no difference.
Lightning Storm: I'm pretty sure that like Freezing Rain, Corruptors get the Controller Version, so Corruptor LS deals less damage.
And then there is of course that corruptor blasts will provide 20% less -to hit than defender blasts.
Whether or not this makes a difference in game, depends entirely on team makeup and what assumptions you make when crunching numbers.
As to the effectiveness of vigilance, it can certainly help some with endurance management on teams, but a good team really shouldn't be taking that much damage, so vigilance is of limited assitance.
If you're planning on mostly teaming I would probably go with the defender for the increased modifiers, but it doesn't make all that much difference.
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
I'd suggest the defender version. Dark blast isn't a set that benefits from scourge particularly well, since it contains DoTs that don't scourge individually. The defender will end up doing similar damage thanks to greater -res values and a more damaging lightning storm. As Draggynn said, it doesn't make a huge difference.
Thanks for your input guys. It looks like we've drawn similar conclusions; my guess was the Defender would have a slight edge but unless playing in extreme situations it will probably be negligible most of the time. The power ordering seems to be the biggest factor.
Does Blackstar do enough damage to be worth taking as a Corruptor? I would like to use it as a panic button with the massive -ToHit, but the Defender damage numbers are really underwhelming, to the point that it's skippable. I hate skipping capstones if I can avoid it. (I usually avoid such sets to begin with.)
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So the DoTs don't play well with Scourge after all? That's what I thought I had read but I wasn't sure.
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Originally Posted by Garent
I'd suggest the defender version. Dark blast isn't a set that benefits from scourge particularly well, since it contains DoTs that don't scourge individually. The defender will end up doing similar damage thanks to greater -res values and a more damaging lightning storm. As Draggynn said, it doesn't make a huge difference.
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My poor boyfriend's Dark/Sonic Corruptor.
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Originally Posted by Garent
I'd suggest the defender version. Dark blast isn't a set that benefits from scourge particularly well, since it contains DoTs that don't scourge individually. The defender will end up doing similar damage thanks to greater -res values and a more damaging lightning storm. As Draggynn said, it doesn't make a huge difference.
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50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
Torrent's long range is quite annoying, you don't expect a cone being so spread out. I took it with my Dark/Pain corruptor to help me solo a bit (and it does it's job), but in team when there's an enemy just in front of me that I want to send flying, I can ruin the tanker's little heap of mobs whereas they're far ahead of me 
That's my problem with Gale actually. I've never used Torrent in practice (just observed my MM's Lich casting it), so if I don't like it I probably won't take either; careful use of Hurricane can do the job in most circumstances anyway (a bit lower mag kb though, not sure if it matters.)
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Scourge is linked to ToHit rolls, Darks DoTs only make one ToHit roll at an an enemy when the power is fired, so you only get a Scourge check at the start unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by D4nnYb0Y
So the DoTs don't play well with Scourge after all? That's what I thought I had read but I wasn't sure.
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This partly depends on how fast you level. If you get on teams, 1-20 is very easy to do and can be done in 3 play sessions(depending on how you define play sessions). By 20, you have all of the main /storm powers outside of Tornado and LS. It's only the last two that are a pain to wait for. Tornado due to it's KB can be considered situational on a defender/corr. Depending on the power set, it might be more useful/fun to get the final two blasts versus Tornado/LS.
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Originally Posted by _Malk_
Personally, I'm a bigger fan of storm as a defender simply because of the faster access to the powers that you really, really want.
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Fair point. If the blast set that was being paired with storm was archery, hands down I would suggest going with a corruptor (because RoA is ZOMG AMAZING!). The only power in dark blast that would make me consider rolling corruptor over defender is life drain, but I want that heal to hit me harder, so I stick with defender for this pairing. Blackstar is pretty meh for me.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
This partly depends on how fast you level. If you get on teams, 1-20 is very easy to do and can be done in 3 play sessions(depending on how you define play sessions). By 20, you have all of the main /storm powers outside of Tornado and LS. It's only the last two that are a pain to wait for. Tornado due to it's KB can be considered situational on a defender/corr. Depending on the power set, it might be more useful/fun to get the final two blasts versus Tornado/LS.
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Talen_Lee: Taking absorb pain is like branding 'H' on your forehead. Which stands for 'Failure'
Scarf_Girl: ever since I six slotted my Rp with cyber/emo Hami-O enhancements they haven't been able to touch me
I'm having trouble choosing b/w a Defender or a Corruptor. I'll be running 8-man teams exclusively (ideally anyway), so I would think that would favor the Defender but I'm not sure. Does Vigilance make a big difference on full teams at 50 in a world with inherent Stamina?
I wouldn't mind a little extra damage (maybe actually using Blackstar?) but it's not a deal breaker. If Defenders have significantly higher numbers on their /Storm controls and debuffs I'll probably go with them. Mid's states theres a variance on a few powers but I'd like to know if it makes a practical difference in game.
As far as power ordering goes, each combo has its merits (either FR or TT at 8 for example) so either pairing would suit me. Though I like being able to skip Gale on the 'fender as it either frees up a power slot or allows me to take Torrent from /Dark Blast. When I use KB as mitigation I tend to use it very precisely, and Gale's cone is much larger than Torrent's iirc. (Or am I wrong?)
Any opinions? I know you each have one.
*Edit* My signature is old...