While I didn't do the math for what you have listed, it's probably about right.
When the changes to MA rolled through, I added them to my little DPA spreadsheet - minus Cobra Strike, since it had the same values as Crane Kick.
The result?
None of those values listed include criticals, and the DPA column at the end is unslotted, but the difference is fairly small. As I've posted before a few times, after the changes Eagle Claw has roughly the same DPA* as Focus... which is the best DPA attack in Claws.
* - Eagle Claw is actually higher, but the numbers don't appear until the 4th decimal place and the spreadsheet only shows 3 for DS/sec. Focus calculates to 58.56 base dpa to the hundredths place.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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They really could have dropped Thunder Kick for Dragon Tail after they made the new changes... I don't see the point having Thunder Kick with Cobra's change.
By the way, Stalker's Eagle Claw has base 15% chance to critical right? So this should bring DPA a bit higher?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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The numbers don't include criticals at all. As a rule I don't include them because they vary from 10% up to 31%, not including the guaranteed criticals from hidden status. If you want to account for them - still ignoring the guaranteed crits - just multiply the DPA number by (1 + critical% chance).|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
By the way, Stalker's Eagle Claw has base 15% chance to critical right? So this should bring DPA a bit higher?
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I'm also not sure if it has a higher critical rate than the rest of the set for Stalkers... it used to be listed separately but is now covered under a general scaling percent, the same way that Storm Kick is (it should also have a higher critical rate per its description). If the formula just calculates a value and returns it for the power to use, then the extra chance may or may not be accounted for. I don't run anything to keep track of how often I critical, so I don't know - it's probably a safe assumption, though.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Do you think I'll be gimping my damage a lot if I don't rely on Storm Kick (which has the highest dpa)?
I am thinking only: Cobra, Crane, Axe and Eagle? Basically all attacks with at least 10s recharge. What do you think?
Any experienced MA stalker here?
I guess the goal is to deliver heavy attack rather than dps.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
If you're planning on fighting long-term, it may (okay, will) be reduced damage. For most Stalker fights, you won't be fighting for very long at once and you can just rely on the extra burst damage, though.
Since you have to take either Thunder Kick or Storm Kick, you may as well at least throw a couple of slots into it for Acc/Dam (S)HO/IOs and use it as attack chain filler for things that don't die after your first round of heavy hitters. 
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Yeah, I am still planning the build. It really really sucks that Stalker doesn't get Dragon Tail. I made a Scrapper MA/Elec but I have this under-dog mentality that I want to make Stalker. I know Scrapper does more damage especially with Dragon Tail. It's not the greatest aoe in the game but it's fast enough and with Stalker's 50% critical from hidden, it can be really handy on a larger team. Why does Stalker need Storm Kick?!!! Who needs 6 ST melee attacks in one set?? Such a design flaw IMO.|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
If you're planning on fighting long-term, it may (okay, will) be reduced damage. For most Stalker fights, you won't be fighting for very long at once and you can just rely on the extra burst damage, though.
Since you have to take either Thunder Kick or Storm Kick, you may as well at least throw a couple of slots into it for Acc/Dam (S)HO/IOs and use it as attack chain filler for things that don't die after your first round of heavy hitters. |
Well, I can't think of anything fancy with MA. The only thing it has over other sets is having 4 attacks higher than 10s recharge. At lower level +0 and against mobs that don't have much smashing resistance, one critical Axe can kill a minion. I am trying to throw in some damage procs so hopefully I can make it the best "burst" damage ST build.
Or who knows, I may end up leveling Scrapper because MA on Scrapper looks quite good.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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If you said Thunder Kick, I could agree with you, but Storm Kick? The highest DPA attack the set has?! :O
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Yeah, I am still planning the build. It really really sucks that Stalker doesn't get Dragon Tail. I made a Scrapper MA/Elec but I have this under-dog mentality that I want to make Stalker. I know Scrapper does more damage especially with Dragon Tail. It's not the greatest aoe in the game but it's fast enough and with Stalker's 50% critical from hidden, it can be really handy on a larger team. Why does Stalker need Storm Kick?!!! Who needs 6 ST melee attacks in one set?? Such a design flaw IMO.
Well, I can't think of anything fancy with MA. The only thing it has over other sets is having 4 attacks higher than 10s recharge. At lower level +0 and against mobs that don't have much smashing resistance, one critical Axe can kill a minion. I am trying to throw in some damage procs so hopefully I can make it the best "burst" damage ST build. Or who knows, I may end up leveling Scrapper because MA on Scrapper looks quite good. |
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Eagle's Claw is wow. When they revamped MA, they gave Stalker Eagle's Claw more damage than the Scrapper version. It's almost got as much damage per attack as Total Focus, now. (It's actually Clobber, albeit with a somewhat longer animation time)
What Scrapper Eagle's Claw gets is the ability to Crit on the next attack. But as I suspect most folks use that with Dragon's Tail anyway, the greater damage is probably doubly better for Stalkers.
Although it occurs to me if the devs wanted to be creative, they could have had the "Crit" for Stalkers cause a follow up attack to do an AoE "splash" damage. That would have taken care of the AoE issue. OTOH, Broadsword still lacks Whirling Sword, Dark Melee still lacks Dark Consumption and Soul Drain, Energy Melee still lacks Whirling Hands, and Ninja Blade The Lotus Drops. So if MA gets AoE damage, all those sets will have to get it too.
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Yup. I think that's the issue. If by going back and changing one set it'd make the others a little more inferior. But it'd be relatively simple in a months time to flesh it out for the other sets. Disembowl doing a 360 AoE effect following successful Headsplitter (mind you it too is PBAoE which could be the influence against such a change) would be neat.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Although it occurs to me if the devs wanted to be creative, they could have had the "Crit" for Stalkers cause a follow up attack to do an AoE "splash" damage. That would have taken care of the AoE issue. OTOH, Broadsword still lacks Whirling Sword, Dark Melee still lacks Dark Consumption and Soul Drain, Energy Melee still lacks Whirling Hands, and Ninja Blade The Lotus Drops. So if MA gets AoE damage, all those sets will have to get it too.
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Yeah, or even just adding a minor PBAoE effect to the most powerful of the attacks. Not to the extent that the PBAoE does as much damage as the main strike, but about as much as the AoE that was removed. |
Originally Posted by Stryph
Yup. I think that's the issue. If by going back and changing one set it'd make the others a little more inferior. But it'd be relatively simple in a months time to flesh it out for the other sets. Disembowl doing a 360 AoE effect following successful Headsplitter (mind you it too is PBAoE which could be the influence against such a change) would be neat.
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Honestly, if the devs feel they cannot boost single target damage any further without "breaking" the AT, then that may be the way to go.
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Oops...I mean Thunder Kick. I get them confused sometimes. Yeah, my point is you don't really need six single target attacks. They could have kept Dragon Tail and got rid of Thunder Kick.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
If you said Thunder Kick, I could agree with you, but Storm Kick? The highest DPA attack the set has?! :O
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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You know I was thinking about this the other day about adding some AoE Damage Proc. I made a new MA/Will Stalker. |
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Yeah, or even just adding a minor PBAoE effect to the most powerful of the attacks. Not to the extent that the PBAoE does as much damage as the main strike, but about as much as the AoE that was removed.
Honestly, if the devs feel they cannot boost single target damage any further without "breaking" the AT, then that may be the way to go. |
I know we have purple Confuse proc that can affect foes around the target when confuse happens. Well, Stalker has a chance to cause "Critical" so what if Stalker has a chance to proc Critical damage to nearby foes? Just the critical damage part, not the whole damage. They can add this critical proc to certain attacks. IE: Eagle Claw and Bone Smasher
This critical proc also directly improves Placate's usefulness because you can choose a target in a mob to critical and hopefully you can score some aoe critical damage.
Adding Critical damage proc for certain attacks avoids:
1. Changing the power itself (like from single to pbaoe). I don't think the dev wants to change old powers to different type. Critical damage proc doesn't break the cottage rule and players don't have to worry about set bonuses change.
2. Only certain attacks can trigger it so you won't see Throw Spines doing even more critical damage.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Okay, was looking it over, and OMG...do I have this wrong?
And the DPS isn't as high as it is on Scrappers, but still! Am I not mistaken on EC's? With these numbers, and going for the best DPS, it doesn't look to really hurt to switch off CS (or Crane Kick) with ECs (because, well, I love the kick animation!)
Stalker's Eagle's Claw looks like it's hardly a drop in DPS, when it comes to putting it into your attack chain!
SK -> CS -> SK -> CAK = 139.08
VS
SK -> CAK -> SK -> EC = 137.14
...sadly the set still lacks Dragon's Tail
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