Tourist Tip Missions (possible spoilers)

I've voiced my opinion before on how it's unfortunate that "tourists" can't reaffirm their alignment overseas, as I envision most (if not all) my "tourist" characters to work in the opposite territory (vigilantes to kick villain butt, rogues to make money).

(spoilers ahead)

Today I tried a vig->vil tip mission involving a group of defecting Arachnos. I thought "okay, I'm going to beat these guys up and show them they can't just turn good." It all seemed very vigilante until I was given three choices on how to torture one of the Arachnos characters (of course ending with his death), until I snapped the Huntsman's girlfriend's neck, and then beat him to within an inch of his life before spitting in his face and killing him, all while they were begging for mercy.

I'm all up for beating up bad guys because they're bad guys, but torturing them and brutally murdering them? I was quite a bit turned off by the lack of merciful decisions, but then I tried another one for good measure; the one with Archon Demitri's hero-sapping devices. The only way to resolve it was to kill four (presumably innocent) heroes who were captured and being leeched! It's not even as if you try looking for another solution, or that the heroes are damaged beyond repair.

Basically my point is that some of the vig->vil tip missions I've seen so far start out as good premises for vigilantes, but then become horribly twisted. I like the scenarios, but the lack of any real choice (besides whether or not to accept the mission in the first place) is unfortunate.

Sign me up as another who was dissapointed at 'You can't be a Vigilante in the Rogue Isles' and vice versa.
That...y'know, kinda makes naff all sense?

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Agreed. I think the side-switching missions always sound awesome when I read them, but I really dislike that the only option is to switch, not to reaffirm your alignment.

Aren't these are supposed to be about choice?

I can kinda see both sides of this issue...

On the one hand, it makes a lot more sense to have the moral choice available. But on the other hand...

You have no reason to be taking tip missions in the 'other' City, unless you already planned on switching sides.

That's really the thing, as far as I can tell. If all you wanted to do was pick up badges that you normally couldn't get... then you wouldn't be running morality missions in the first place. In essence, by accepting the mission, you're being treated as already having made the moral choice. And, at the moment, those are the only reasons you have to being a Rogue in Paragon, or being a Vigilante in the Isles - you are either badging, or you are switching sides.

Now, if there was actual Vigilante content in the Isles, (or Rogue content in Paragon,) then having the choice of staying the current alignment will be a viable option. Until then... I think you're just going to have to accept that you already made your moral choice.

...now, why the devs feel that being a villain means acting like a psychotic maniac (who eats kitten heads for breakfast, drinks the blood of newborns with every meal, and whose hobbies include 'Killing Everything That Moves' and 'Planning to Destroy the World')... That's a better question. I mean, would having a little subtlety really be 'not evil enough?' Or is the School of Cartoonishly Monstrous Villainy really the only way to go?

Here's my view on it. The missions you are referring to are specifically written for a Vigilante who is becoming a Villain. As such it makes sense that he would do things that are "evil", it's intended to show his descent from "well-meaning but a bit misguided" to out and out evil. The decisions in the missions reflect the idea that "the ends justify the means" which is the hallmark of a Vigilante slipping further into darkness.

Now I would love it if the out of town tip missions had a reaffirmation option rather than just a change alignment option but I don't think that's a problem with the missions as written, it's just a case of not providing the alternate path.

So, taking my Praetorian brute from a Hero to Villain was an unpleasant reminder of these new tips missions. Besides the whole lack of choice thing, a lot of them are just so poorly written and have you do things that only a deranged lunatic would do. Not only that, a lot of missions are basically 90% copies of each other, just with different enemy groups. The Arachnos defector mission I mentioned in the first post? I encountered a reformed Carnival mission with the exact same mission sequence, torture and kill friend of main boss, torture and kill lover of main boss, listen to how bad of a person you are and how they were trying to reform, kill main boss.

Okay, one is a fluke, right? How about the one where you defeat the security chief, reprogram the Praetorian Clockwork to go haywire, and then show everyone "the error of their ways" by rescuing them? Well there's also the one where you defeat the security chief, reprogram the Longbow Agent's biotic implants to go haywire, and then show everyone "the error of their ways" by rescuing them.

Alright, but what about the one where the Council is planning a peaceful demonstration, but through your meddling it becomes a violent display that kills innocent people but allows heroes to intervene? Well there's also the one where Nemesis is planning a peaceful demonstration, bu through... okay, you get it.

Along with the unrefined dialogue (I've NEVER seen a ! mistyped as a 1 in a legit product before) and nonsensical motivation ("Steel Mountain is going to betray you, Jim. You don't believe me? Well then I'll have to kill you first!" LOLWUT) these tip missions are plain awful.

One more thing, is there a new morality mission from vig->vil? Because the one I got was the one where you make Overdrive your lackey (and ultimately fail.)

Which brings me to another point (okay, not "one more thing" after all), perhaps the most important one in relation to these missions, the original tip missions set a precedence for excellence. They're better planned out, better suiting the supposed motivation for going through with the missions, and (even with the villain missions) aren't disgustingly morbid. In the Overdrive mission, you don't kill a single person (at least not in horrible detail through dialogue), you just knock people out and defeat some heroes.

Now I gotta go play through the Nance->Adair and Cooling arcs to make myself feel better, that's the kind of stuff I'm happy to see in the game and still like playing.