Softcapping on a budget? DB maybe?


ClawsandEffect

 

Posted

I am looking into rolling up a melee character. The idea being to level up for the fun, and have something that can farm well at 50. I was thinking that a softcapped defense character would probably be most promising for something like that.

I already have a 50 SS/WP brute, and he isn't bad at all, just not tickling my fancy at the moment. I've heard all the hoopla about fire/kin and have one in the 20s, but it's just not as fun as getting in there and bringing some SMASH into the fight.

I'm very open to suggestions of AT and power combo. Also open to suggestions of resist based builds if it turns out that's a better option for what I'm looking for. The guidelines being that it is something solo capable, that won't be a complete nightmare to level up and can reach the softcap or close to it without blowing a ridiculous amount of inf to get there. Tanker would be an obvious choice since it has the best base defense numbers I think, but that leaves me with concerns about killing power. Open to Brute/Scrapper/Tanker/SomethingIOverlooked suggestions since I can just switch faction as needed of course.

I had started up a DB/SR scrapper, but it felt a little lackluster in the damage to be honest. Maybe I just didn't give it long enough to really bloom, I mean it's still very low level. It just kinda felt like it had weak output right out of the gates. DB is very nice looking though, and rocks an AOE, 2 cones and the finishing moves. Not sure how it comes out looking in the end for damage output though, anyone have any thoughts for how it compares to others as a farming capable set?

EDIT: Had also considered a **/Nin stalker, but by nature stalkers tend to be very single target based so probably not a good match for what I'm looking for here. Nin just looks like a cool set though. Defense, self heal and utility stuff to boot.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post

I had started up a DB/SR scrapper, but it felt a little lackluster in the damage to be honest. Maybe I just didn't give it long enough to really bloom, I mean it's still very low level.
It's an illusion caused by the fact that the total damage for an attack doesn't come in one hit.

When you look at Broadsword's Hack and see it dealing 30 damage per hit at a low level, and compare it to Dual Blades' Power Slice and see it hitting for 10 and it feels like the Broadsword character is hitting so much harder, but the Dual Blades is hitting for 10 damage 3 times, while Hack is hitting for 30 once. It's the same amount of damage, but our eyes only register the numbers themselves and not necessarily what they add up to.

Power sets like Energy Blast and Sonic have the same stigma, because their damage is split into 2 different types. You see another set that is hitting for 150 and think they are doing more damage because your brain only sees the 75 you're dealing, but you're dealing 75 damage of 2 different types.

That said, Dual Blades is probably middle of the pack for damage dealing. It's not nearly as bad as the initial impression would lead you to believe.

My wife has a DB/SR at 50, and after she got him softcapped, he became a beast. He easily hangs with my DM/SR brute, and surpasses him in situations that AoE is more useful in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Well, I do have a bots MM so I'm used to seeing a lot of small numbers and not worrying too much about that. I was more thinking in terms of that "Ugh, it took 3 full attack cycles to kill a minion" feeling I'm getting when I level. Maybe as I get a more robust attack chain and such that will drop away a bit. Worth giving it a shot I suppose though. Thanks for the feedback.


 

Posted

If you want a cheaply softcapped character, your best bets are either a Shield Tank or a Super Reflexes Scrapper, Brute or Stalker. The Stalker is easiest - I can softcap one on common IOs and ONE set IO, but as you said, they're not the best choice for a farming character.

With the other three, take all the defense powers they offer, Combat Jumping, Tough and Weave. Slot all the defensive powers with three level 50 common Defense IOs and as much EndRed as needed (Three-slotting Grant Cover isn't needed for the tank, but since it's part of your Defense Debuff Resistance, you should definitely take it). Put a Steadfast Protection Res/Def in a Resist power. This will put you just a few points under the softcap. At this point, either add a Gladiator's Armor Def/TP Resist (not a budget IO), or a full set of Gaussian's Synchronized Fire Control or Maneuvers (fully slotted, of course). Adding more than one of these options will push you above the softcap, helping to offset debuffs.

Scrappers and Brutes can softcap Shields, and with the Resists, +Max HP, and -Damage it provides, a softcapped Shield character is much more durable than a softcapped Super Reflexes. The tradeoff is that you have to spend a lot more slots on defense, meaning that you've got fewer left for other bonuses, and that it's a lot more expensive to softcap the Shield character.


@Roderick

 

Posted

This build is an Arch/Energy/Force Blaster that is soft capped vs ranged. Use Stealth + the Unbounded Leap stealth in sprint to position yourself for your Alpha. Use Hover to stay out of melee range and then use boost range and your AoEs to eliminate spawns. Particularly annoying, AoE using lieutenants, can be eliminated with Aim + Build Up > Ranged shot > Blazing Arrow.

The build has 2 escape powers if you get in over your head. PFF will put you over the soft cap for all the other positions and far over for Ranged. Since it will recharge in 18ish seconds without hasten you'll be able to pop in and out often enough to stay alive when the RNG hates you or if there are multiple AoE using mobs (you can also use it proactively to preemptively splash the spawn's Alpha attack). If it doesn't recharge fast enough or you find yourself in a situation where your defense has been massively debuffed you can phase out and wait for the debuffs to expire.

You can wait on the 5 Lotgs +7.5s until you can afford them just use a regular defense enhancement until you get them. Honestly though by the time you hit 50 if you haven't gotten them from random rolling your merits for running story arc and TF content on your way up to 50 you should have been able to get them with A merits.

Thunderstrikes are cheap. Using patient bidding you can easily get the recipes for 500k each or you can bronze roll a few batches of AE tickets. As long as your luck with the RNG isn't vile, you should get several thunderstrike recipes for 3000ish tickets. You'll probably get your Steadfast recipes at the same time. The most expensive Mako bits will run you 5 mil each with patient bidding but you may not have to buy them either. Mako is one of the things that has a higher weighting on the pool C drop tables and you may have gotten most of what you need from random rolling on the way up.

That leaves the Miracle and Zephyr -KB as the most expensive other bits. A-merits if you didn't random roll them on the way up.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Ranger: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Archery
Secondary Power Set: Energy Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Force Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Snap Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Power Thrust -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mako-Dam%(11)
Level 2: Aimed Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 4: Fistful of Arrows -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(43), Posi-Dmg/Rng(43), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 6: Hover -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(17)
Level 8: Blazing Arrow -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(19), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 10: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(23), AdjTgt-Rchg(25)
Level 12: Explosive Arrow -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(27), Posi-Dmg/Rng(27), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29)
Level 14: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(29)
Level 16: Bone Smasher -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(31), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Dam%(33)
Level 18: Aim -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(33), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(34), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(34), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(34), GSFC-Build%(36)
Level 20: Ranged Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(36), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Zephyr-Travel(39), Zephyr-ResKB(40)
Level 26: Stunning Shot -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(40), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(40), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(42), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(42), Stpfy-KB%(42)
Level 28: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Rain of Arrows -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(46), Posi-Dmg/Rng(46), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 35: Boost Range -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Total Focus -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(48), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Mako-Dam%(50)
Level 41: Personal Force Field -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
Level 47: Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Phase Shift -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(45)



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-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson

 

Posted

Excellent response, thanks a ton.

I realized I didn't really clarify one point much. When I say "on a budget" I just mean something reasonable that doesn't have 3 purple slots and everything under the sun tricked out. I'll be using mostly set IOs as I get moving and trick things out a bit. I think I've got somewhere around 800 mil inf in liquid assets and close to that much in IOs/salvage tucked away in my base. I made most of my money over a year ago, so it has suffered a bit from inflation, it was a bigger nest egg then than it is now, but I'm not poor and perfectly capable of making more should I find the toon very much to my liking and really want to trick it out.


 

Posted

You could easily soft cap a Fire/SR Scrapper and have a great character for less than 200 million influence if you're patient.


Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

Posted

You didn't say which melee AT you wanted to play, but keep in mind that except for /SR, a tank is always going to be much easier to soft-cap than a brute or a scrapper, since they start with 25% more defense in the same armor set. Whether the ease of soft-capping is worth the loss of damage is entirely up to you.

I've played most defense melee sets, and SR, Shields, and Ice are all quite easy/inexpensive to soft-cap. EA for Brutes is a little more difficult, but not much. You might also want to consider Invuln; it has less native defense than the mostly defense sets I listed above, but it does have substantial defense to all types except Psi, so will be much easier to soft-cap than WP or a resistance set like DA or Electric. It also has other advantages like DP and high levels of S/L resistance.


My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

I find the trick to cheap softcapping is creative selection of IO sets. For example, the following IO sets are fairly cheap and give some good def bonuses:

Stun: Razzle Dazzle (5 pieces - 2.5% melee, 6 pieces - 2.5% AoE), Stupify (6 pieces - 3.125% ranged and 6.25% recharge)

Immobilize: Enfeebled operation (4.375% melee for 6 pieces), debilitative action (2.5% AoE for 5 pieces)

Def Buff: Red fortune (6 pieces, 3.125% ranged + 5% recharge)

Attacks: Scirocco's dervish (3.125% AoE), Multistrike (5 pieces - 1.875% AoE, 6 pieces - 1.875% melee).

The Red fortune and Scirocco's dervish are not as cheap as the others, but cheaper than things like touch of death, mako's bite and obliteration.

Stun sets can go in boxing, immobilize sets can go in powers from the APP's (ring of fire, etc). The 'cost' of these cheap sets is usually having to slot powers you might not normally slot - but it saves a lot of inf.

As far as powers go, my first choice to get some extra def to all is combat jumping - its cheaper to run than hover or manuevers AND you can keep it on all the time (unless you like hover in combat - I don't but YMMV). After CJ the next most 'expensive' power in terms of end/power picks is maneuvers, with weave technically coming in third. I say its techincally third because it costs 3 power picks but gives you tough (which is a nice place to slot a steadfast prot +def IO) and boxing, which can slot the stun sets I listed above.

I like to play with various builds in mids, trying to balance slots spent on set mules like boxing with other bonuses. I have found you can softcap even a shield scrapper reasonably cheaply if you are carefull - although right now the market has dried up in the 30-40 IO range since everyone is running L50's for incarnate shards. Prices are still reasonable IF you can find the recipes - but finding them at all is the real problem.


Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13

 

Posted

Thank you sir, that is a fantastic response. The suggestions on sets and such are very much appreciated.

As I've tinkered with a couple ideas and thrown a few things around one did pop up that I had not thought about before. How do Arachnos Widow's do in this department? At first glance it looks like they can get respectable defense numbers, stealth, team buffs and the build trees offer the choice of either ranged or melee and I could even maintain a build for each if I decided I wanted to do so, with an eventual 3rd build specifically for teaming or something.

The more I look at the idea the more I like it, but I haven't taken a real hard look at mids to see exactly where their defense numbers come in line compared to some of the other ATs. Anyone got one they've tried out and willing to offer up their experiences?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post
Thank you sir, that is a fantastic response. The suggestions on sets and such are very much appreciated.

As I've tinkered with a couple ideas and thrown a few things around one did pop up that I had not thought about before. How do Arachnos Widow's do in this department? At first glance it looks like they can get respectable defense numbers, stealth, team buffs and the build trees offer the choice of either ranged or melee and I could even maintain a build for each if I decided I wanted to do so, with an eventual 3rd build specifically for teaming or something.

The more I look at the idea the more I like it, but I haven't taken a real hard look at mids to see exactly where their defense numbers come in line compared to some of the other ATs. Anyone got one they've tried out and willing to offer up their experiences?
Widows and Soldiers are primarily positional defense characters, although in both cases at least one of the powers that gives them defense gives it to everything (combat training: Maneuvers). Widows get their base defenses from 2 auto powers (combat training: defensive and foresight), the previously mentioned Maneuvers toggles and then they stack mind link on top of that.

CT: defensive gives 7.5% melee def, foresight gives 7.5% to all 3 positions (melee, ranged and AoE) and CT: maneuvers gives 5% to everything, this is all unslotted. Mind link gives a base 10% def to everything as well - so fully slotted for def, when mind link is up you have as much as 44% to melee, 32% to ranged and AoE and 24% to everything else. Additionally widows can take mask presence - it only gives 2.5% def all when suppressed but every little bit counts.

The usual path to softcapping a widow is to try to get enough recharge to make mind link permanent and pick up some ranged and AoE def from other sources, since melee is softcapped almost out of the box. Perma mind link is fairly easy on a night widow as their version has the fastest recharge (240s vs the fortunata's 300s) and they get mental training for a free 20% global recharge. So a night widow can get perma-mind link if they slot enough def/recharge IO's in ML to ED cap the recharge and pick up about 50% or so global recharge from other sources. Its a lot harder to get perma mind link on a Fortunata - I have never done it so I couldn't even tell you the numbers.

However, one very NICE thing about VEATS is that they get about the best numbers from defensive power pools redside - they get corruptor values for the leadership pool and tanker values for tough/weave, so if you are willing to spend the power picks you can easily softcap without mind link. VEATs also get nice def numbers from the pool powers that normally grant so little def it is hard to notice - combat jumping and hover both give 2.5% def to VEATS.

Here is my current night widow build that is sofcapped to all positions without mind link if you want an example. Note that the numbers look just shy of the softcap on ranged and AoE - I leave mask presence turned off in mids because it adds the un-supressed defense values to your totals when you turn it on, which throws things way off since you get 7.5% def when in stealth but only 2.5% when out of it - so I just remember to add 2.5% to all def when figuring the total.

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The actual IO's I slotted for def where fairly cheap - 1 red fortune set, 1 stupify, scirocco's dervish and a steadfast protection +3% def unique. Most of my def comes from the widow def powers + the pool maneuvers, weave and combat jumping.


Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricHough View Post
I leave mask presence turned off in mids because it adds the un-supressed defense values to your totals when you turn it on, which throws things way off since you get 7.5% def when in stealth but only 2.5% when out of it - so I just remember to add 2.5% to all def when figuring the total.
A new feature of Mids' added in v19.1 is the ability to suppress your powers to see the effects while unstealthed, mezzed, etc. Go to Options, Configuration, Effects & Maths, and notice the "Suppression" field on the far right. Turn on "Attacked" and all your stealths will give the in-combat defense numbers instead of the out of combat values.


@Roderick

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
A new feature of Mids' added in v19.1 is the ability to suppress your powers to see the effects while unstealthed, mezzed, etc. Go to Options, Configuration, Effects & Maths, and notice the "Suppression" field on the far right. Turn on "Attacked" and all your stealths will give the in-combat defense numbers instead of the out of combat values.
I saw someone point that out in another thread just after I made my previous post :-). Its a great addition, glad they finally added it.


Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricHough View Post
As far as powers go, my first choice to get some extra def to all is combat jumping - its cheaper to run than hover or manuevers AND you can keep it on all the time (unless you like hover in combat - I don't but YMMV).
Actually, you can keep it on all the time even if you hover. Running both at once gives you the defense bonus from both, so if you can spare the power pick you can get a tad more defense and another LotG on a flier by grabbing Combat Jumping (or another Red Fortune set if you can spare the slots).


Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636

 

Posted

Fire/Force Field Controller. (You said you wanted melee...)