What enhancements do you have in him?
If it's anything but a regular EndRDX IO, it won't apply to all of his powers. For example; damage/endurance IO's won't affect his chill aura or Shiver.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Because you have pet damage sets slotted, the Demon Prince is only having the endurance of his attacks reduced. If an attack doesn't do damage it doesn't have reduced endurance cost. Since he runs Chilling Embrace and uses Shiver every time it's up, these skills will drain his endurance in short order.
One level 50 endurance reduction IO might have a better overall effect than 95% from pet damage sets.
I figured it was something like that. MM pet slotting really is a magical mystery box, innit? Well, off to reslot I go.
@SPTrashcan
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Yeah, I like the diversity of pet slotting, but it can be counter-intuitive at times until you learn all the nuances. I found my DS's life to be much easier after slotting a generic end reducer in both the prince and demons. The ember demon goes through end pretty quickly too thanks to his heals and ember shield.
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How close are you to Pain Bringer? That skill solves any issues the Prince might have, but when you are teamed it generally works best on a Blaster/Dom/Corrupter.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Well, off to reslot I go.
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Interesting reading - I've not noticed this with the Protector Bot (who guzzles endurance for the Seeker Drone summons) since the power is flagged for damage sets.|
Originally Posted by Dark_Impact
Yeah, I like the diversity of pet slotting, but it can be counter-intuitive at times until you learn all the nuances. I found my DS's life to be much easier after slotting a generic end reducer in both the prince and demons. The ember demon goes through end pretty quickly too thanks to his heals and ember shield.
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After a bit more reading around on the topic, I've updated my guide with this information (under "Slotting: Invention Enhancement Sets") as it's something more people should be made aware of.
One of the reasons I prefer to use HOs on my pets is that that way I don't have to worry about specific powers not getting boosted.
The big problem is his foot stompy Frozen Aura does not get affected by Pet damage sets. It really should since it is a damage power (at least it was that way 2 months ago; been awhile since I checked and I haven't been keeping up on the patch notes).
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What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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how are HOs different from IO set pieces? if you slot an heal/end HO, won't that reduce the endurance use of his heals, and not all his powers?
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
One of the reasons I prefer to use HOs on my pets is that that way I don't have to worry about specific powers not getting boosted.
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Set IOs are flagged as a single "type" of enhancement, while HOs are flagged as every type they can enhance.|
Originally Posted by kendo
how are HOs different from IO set pieces? if you slot an heal/end HO, won't that reduce the endurance use of his heals, and not all his powers?
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Every melee damage IO, for example, is recognized by the powers system as a damage enhancement even if, say, it enhances acc/end/rech and doesn't buff damage at all. Only powers flagged to accept damage enhancements will benefit. Likewise, pet damage IOs are all treated as damage enhancements, which is sometimes problematic since pets generally have multiple powers which inherit their slotting from the power that summons them. If one of those powers doesn't accept damage enhancements, it doesn't get the benefit from pet damage IOs.
HOs, on the other hand, are actually flagged as multiple enhancement types, which is why you could slot, say, a Microfilament into Power Blast and still get the end reduction. (It would be silly, but you could.) It's also why HOs behave much more reliably in pets, especially things like Dark Servant that can be slotted for a multitude of different effects (but not, notably, damage).
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Sort of begs the question, why can't the pet powers be flagged to accept all enhancements? It's not like the pets could be slotted any differently.
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Originally Posted by Wonderslug
Set IOs are flagged as a single "type" of enhancement, while HOs are flagged as every type they can enhance.
Every melee damage IO, for example, is recognized by the powers system as a damage enhancement even if, say, it enhances acc/end/rech and doesn't buff damage at all. Only powers flagged to accept damage enhancements will benefit. Likewise, pet damage IOs are all treated as damage enhancements, which is sometimes problematic since pets generally have multiple powers which inherit their slotting from the power that summons them. If one of those powers doesn't accept damage enhancements, it doesn't get the benefit from pet damage IOs. HOs, on the other hand, are actually flagged as multiple enhancement types, which is why you could slot, say, a Microfilament into Power Blast and still get the end reduction. (It would be silly, but you could.) It's also why HOs behave much more reliably in pets, especially things like Dark Servant that can be slotted for a multitude of different effects (but not, notably, damage). |
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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True, but I imagine there'd be ONE case somewhere (I can't think of where) that'd be problematic. Not sure how or where or what, but when you change stuff that much a problem always crops up.
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Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
Sort of begs the question, why can't the pet powers be flagged to accept all enhancements? It's not like the pets could be slotted any differently.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Two reasons: procs and enhancement type confusion.|
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
Sort of begs the question, why can't the pet powers be flagged to accept all enhancements? It's not like the pets could be slotted any differently.
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Some of the debuff and mez sets have useful procs. Allowing any power to use any enhancement type would mean those procs would work on all of the character's powers including their AoE attacks. For example Mercenaries can slot the Achilles Heel -res proc but it only works for their single target attacks, this change would make their AoEs proc it (not a great example I know since mercs could probably use the boost but I digress).
The second reason is more important. Certain enhancement types are functionally identical but differ only in what powers take them:
Damage/Resistance
Defense Buff/Defense Debuff
To Hit Buff/To Hit Debuff
Speed Buff/Speed Debuff (a slightly weird case, slows debuff all 3movement types, but the buff enhancements only buff one)
This is the cause of several well know bugs including the various Hami-O slotting exploits and the occasionally weird behavior of Power Boost (most well known being that it doesn't boost Cold Domination's Shields).
In several cases allowing pet powers to take all enhancement types would provide a considerable slot savings to MMs. The poster child for this is probably the Ember Demon. With this change ED capping his Damage would also more than ED cap his Damage Resistance buffs. This can already be done to some degree using HOs but since it doesn't work with Nucleolus Exposures it's not to bad (although slotting 3 Ribosomes should ED cap Damage Resistance and Endurance Usage plus provide 60% Damage enhancement which isn't to shabby).
Then I suggest that the non-damage pet powers' endurance costs be adjusted so that the pet can not bottom out their bar while using them.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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Change an entire collection of powers just so you don't have to put an End Redux SO/IO/HO in the pet? I don't see that happening. As much as I'd like to see that as my Sally is quite thirsty as well...
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Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
Then I suggest that the non-damage pet powers' endurance costs be adjusted so that the pet can not bottom out their bar while using them.
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Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...
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While I don't think the blanket change would be good I would support changing things so that pet damage IOs work in all of a pet's powers. The fact that they don't really work the way one would expect is, IMHO, bad. There are already quite a few 'gotchas' with slotting and IOs in general, decreasing them is always desirable. But in the meantime as you say there are enough useful HOs to cover the gaps (especially with the HO slotting bug).
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Originally Posted by beowulf2010
Change an entire collection of powers just so you don't have to put an End Redux SO/IO/HO in the pet? I don't see that happening. As much as I'd like to see that as my Sally is quite thirsty as well...
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It's not about needing to put an End Redux SO/IO/HO in the power, it's that there's a huge disparity between just using pet sets and mixing it up when it comes to endurance.
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Originally Posted by beowulf2010
Change an entire collection of powers just so you don't have to put an End Redux SO/IO/HO in the pet? I don't see that happening. As much as I'd like to see that as my Sally is quite thirsty as well...
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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
My Demons/Pain MM is having trouble with her Demon Prince, George. He's going through his endurance at a prodigious rate - much more than I'd expect, given his slotting. George is frankenslotted with Pet Damage IOs granting about 95% endurance reduction. Yet after just a minute of fighting, his endurance bottoms out. Are his powers really that costly, or are the enhancements not applying somehow?
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